Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

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irishmick79
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Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

Post by irishmick79 »

Couple of things bugged me about the development of the clone army on Kamino after watching Episode two yet again. Sure, we know that the army was ordered by someone claiming to be a jedi named Sifo-Dias, and claiming that the army was ordered on behalf of the Republic. While we don't know a whole lot about this figure, I think it's safe to say he (she?) was working under orders from either Palpatine or Dooku. The development of the army fits into palpatine/sideous's schemes too well.

But I'm guessing the Kaminoans didn't simply start production of the army on the whim of the Jedi, without verification of proper credit, establishment of verifiable contracts, and I imagine they probably set up a system of periodic payments for the army. I highly doubt they would have waited until the army was complete before trying to collect on their contract. The Kaminoans would have been left in an uncomfortable position had they completed the army, only to find that the Republic couldn't or was unwilling to pay for the services.

So who was making the payments that fueled the army's development? Probably not the Jedi Sifo-Dias. He was supposedly killed, and if he had access to the Jedi's credit accounts, the other Jedi would have noticed that something was going on. He could have been funded by somebody else, but the Jedi could have found out that Sifo-dias's billfold was unusally large, and started to ask uncomfortable questions.

I don't think the republic funded it either. I really doubt Palpatine would have been able to push that kind of funding through the senate without a serious fight, and the battle would have cost him the political capital he needed to get himself elected chancellor. Too many senators would have suspected something had he tried to keep it hidden in the senate, and every Finance committe would have gone apeshit had they found out they had been unwittingly funding a secret army.

And I doubt that Dooku and the trade seperatists were secretly funding it as well. The seperatists were pumping their available resources into the droid army, and if they had the option of funding a clone army, why would they still be interested in keeping up production of battle droids?

So who paid for the clone army before hostilities began? What about a company like Kuat Drive Yards? Kuat wouldn't necessarily be in the thick of the fighting, and could benefit substantially from the expansion of military contracts granted by the Republic. Palpatine could have made a secret deal with them, having them pay for the army at first, but once hostilities started, the republic would have repaid Kuat for their efforts. With a host of new contracts for ships and equipment, lawmakers in the senate wouldn't necessarily have been suspicious of massive payments to war manufactuerers, and Palpatine could have kept the connection relatively hidden by disguising the payments as simply new contracts for military hardware. And more importantly, he could of arranged for the republic to assume responsibility for any future payments to the Kaminoans after hostilities started.

Why would Kuat be willing to assume such risk? Well, plausible deniability. If they had made a secret deal with palpatine, they could a reasonable claim that they were acting under the direction of the Republic. And once the republic got involved in the war, Kuat could very easily have concealed payments under the guise of new war contracts. And Kuat would have had alot to benefit from a widespread war in the galaxy. They could have tested their new designs for ships, they could have expanded business with the combatants, and by doing Palpatine a favor, they could have assured that Kuat would be the major ship manufacturer of the Republic for the forseeable future. They would have had a lot to gain, and I think it is plausible that maybe they had a role in the development of the clone army.

What do you all think?
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Post by Knife »

What, you don't think that a 'Fresher' seat costs 10,000 credits and a hydrospanner costs 50,000 credits do you?

Hidden costs could have been slipped through for a variety of things. It is not unconceivable that the lackys of Palpatine could snatch some cash here and there in the senate and use it to pay for certain 'projects'.

Palpatine could have accumalated a very nice nest egg from his extensive years in the senate by TPM. For example, Mauls ship couldn't have been cheap. It is possible that Palpatine could have had enough cash for a downpayment for the clones and had his emissary promise other contracts, guarenteed loans, or straight up cash COD after the army was made. Since the Kaminoins were dealing with a huge goverment body (or thought they were) it is not unbeleivable that they took it as faith that the Republic would pay off the debt.

It is also concievable that Dooku (I assume that this was one of his first missions as a sith) could have brought his Jedi powers to bear when negotiating the deal with the Kaminoins thus paying little and promising alot for the Kaminoins to start the construction of the clones.
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Re: Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

Post by Vympel »

irishmick79 wrote:Couple of things bugged me about the development of the clone army on Kamino after watching Episode two yet again. Sure, we know that the army was ordered by someone claiming to be a jedi named Sifo-Dias, and claiming that the army was ordered on behalf of the Republic. While we don't know a whole lot about this figure, I think it's safe to say he (she?) was working under orders from either Palpatine or Dooku. The development of the army fits into palpatine/sideous's schemes too well.
I'd say it was probably Dooku. Reference: Jango Fett saying he was hired by a man called Tyranus (Darth Tyranus is Count Dooku's name).
But I'm guessing the Kaminoans didn't simply start production of the army on the whim of the Jedi, without verification of proper credit, establishment of verifiable contracts, and I imagine they probably set up a system of periodic payments for the army. I highly doubt they would have waited until the army was complete before trying to collect on their contract. The Kaminoans would have been left in an uncomfortable position had they completed the army, only to find that the Republic couldn't or was unwilling to pay for the services.
Mhmm. I think the Kaminoans were probably paid by funds Palpatine acquired during his Chancellorship, or, perhaps, with Dookui's considerable personal fortune- he's extremely rich.
So who was making the payments that fueled the army's development? Probably not the Jedi Sifo-Dias. He was supposedly killed, and if he had access to the Jedi's credit accounts, the other Jedi would have noticed that something was going on. He could have been funded by somebody else, but the Jedi could have found out that Sifo-dias's billfold was unusally large, and started to ask uncomfortable questions.
See above.
I don't think the republic funded it either. I really doubt Palpatine would have been able to push that kind of funding through the senate without a serious fight, and the battle would have cost him the political capital he needed to get himself elected chancellor. Too many senators would have suspected something had he tried to keep it hidden in the senate, and every Finance committe would have gone apeshit had they found out they had been unwittingly funding a secret army.
In a position of power like that, it's very easy for someone up at the top to manipulate the process so as to get him the funds he'd require- and remember- this is a galactic civilization that builds moon-sized battle stations in months- it's probably not a very large sum, by relative standards.
And I doubt that Dooku and the trade seperatists were secretly funding it as well. The seperatists were pumping their available resources into the droid army, and if they had the option of funding a clone army, why would they still be interested in keeping up production of battle droids?
Dooku obviously knew about the Clone Army, and we already know that he's filthy rich. He's one possibility. The Trade Seperatists are pathetic dupes- and Dooku's playing them like a flute.
So who paid for the clone army before hostilities began? What about a company like Kuat Drive Yards? Kuat wouldn't necessarily be in the thick of the fighting, and could benefit substantially from the expansion of military contracts granted by the Republic. Palpatine could have made a secret deal with them, having them pay for the army at first, but once hostilities started, the republic would have repaid Kuat for their efforts. With a host of new contracts for ships and equipment, lawmakers in the senate wouldn't necessarily have been suspicious of massive payments to war manufactuerers, and Palpatine could have kept the connection relatively hidden by disguising the payments as simply new contracts for military hardware. And more importantly, he could of arranged for the republic to assume responsibility for any future payments to the Kaminoans after hostilities started.

Why would Kuat be willing to assume such risk? Well, plausible deniability. If they had made a secret deal with palpatine, they could a reasonable claim that they were acting under the direction of the Republic. And once the republic got involved in the war, Kuat could very easily have concealed payments under the guise of new war contracts. And Kuat would have had alot to benefit from a widespread war in the galaxy. They could have tested their new designs for ships, they could have expanded business with the combatants, and by doing Palpatine a favor, they could have assured that Kuat would be the major ship manufacturer of the Republic for the forseeable future. They would have had a lot to gain, and I think it is plausible that maybe they had a role in the development of the clone army.

What do you all think?
I don't think it's very likely. Kuat Drive Yards would then be paying for the construction of the Acclamators, and their subsidiaries to build all the clone military hardware.
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Post by paladin »

I agree with Vympel and Knife on this one. Given the level of corruption that was suppose to plague the Republic, I would find it very probable that the funding for the clone army could be hidden in appropiation bills in the Senate.
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Re: Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

Post by irishmick79 »

[quote="Vympel"]Mhmm. I think the Kaminoans were probably paid by funds Palpatine acquired during his Chancellorship, or, perhaps, with Dookui's considerable personal fortune- he's extremely rich.

In a position of power like that, it's very easy for someone up at the top to manipulate the process so as to get him the funds he'd require- and remember- this is a galactic civilization that builds moon-sized battle stations in months- it's probably not a very large sum, by relative standards.[quote]

I guess I'm operating under the assumption that development of a clone army would have been prohibitively expensive, even by Star Wars standards. Otherwise, everybody with money to burn would have been building clone armies left and right, and nobody would have fooled around with battle droids. While both Dooku and palpatine were well off, I really doubt they could have been able to finance the operation themselves. I just think Palpatine had to go outside of the Republic because of secrecy concerns. For palpatine to acquire the majority of his funds from the republic, he would have had to have extensive control of the bureaucracy. With the active war opposition in the senate, I'm not so sure he would have had that kind of control established yet.

Maybe the big kicker for Kuat was that Palpatine promised to reimburse Kuat for financing the army before the war broke out, on top of getting the majority of new war contracts. That would have made it a sweet deal for Kuat, and a hard one to walk away from.
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Post by Knife »

Maybe the big kicker for Kuat was that Palpatine promised to reimburse Kuat for financing the army before the war broke out, on top of getting the majority of new war contracts. That would have made it a sweet deal for Kuat, and a hard one to walk away from.
That same reasoning would apply to Kamino and the construction of the clones as I wrote earlier.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Post by irishmick79 »

paladin wrote:I agree with Vympel and Knife on this one. Given the level of corruption that was suppose to plague the Republic, I would find it very probable that the funding for the clone army could be hidden in appropiation bills in the Senate.
And that same corruption would also present a reason for Palpatine to go outside of the republic for his monetary support. Palpatine might have thought that the corrupt officials he was playing were just as likely to turn on him as they were to turn on the loyal senators in the senate. Maybe he felt more comfortable with paying the beuracrats to simply look the other way on his dealings then with actually involving them in funneling money to a secret war project.
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Post by Joe »

With a budget as large as the Republic's, I'm sure Palpy could find a way to sneak some money through the cracks.
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Post by Lord Pounder »

If Palpy was from Naboo Nobility what was to stop him paying for the army him self in the guise of Syfio Dias(sp). Many times we have seen references to Palpys private army. Maybe the Clone Army was a larger extension.
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Post by Admiral Drason »

What If Palpy stole it from the Trade Federation? When he was having them work for him he could have raided their accounts and made off with enough money to put a down payment on the clone army.
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Post by paladin »

irishmick79 wrote:
paladin wrote:I agree with Vympel and Knife on this one. Given the level of corruption that was suppose to plague the Republic, I would find it very probable that the funding for the clone army could be hidden in appropiation bills in the Senate.
And that same corruption would also present a reason for Palpatine to go outside of the republic for his monetary support. Palpatine might have thought that the corrupt officials he was playing were just as likely to turn on him as they were to turn on the loyal senators in the senate. Maybe he felt more comfortable with paying the beuracrats to simply look the other way on his dealings then with actually involving them in funneling money to a secret war project.
I doubt Palpy would have problems with bureaucrats turning against him. He did have a majority of the Senate in his pocket by AOTC and he seemed to control them easily. So, I would bet he would have had an easy time manipulating some bureaucrats to help him hide the funding for the clone army. Chances are Palpy was manipulating those bureaucrats to work for him in such a way that their actions could not be traced back to him. He was a Sith Lord for heaven sakes! Manipulating people should be easy for a Sith Lord.
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Post by Ender »

The sith themselves could have paid for it. They bribe, hire and all kinds of stuff, and we know that they don't have day jobs ("Hello, my name is Maul, welcome to McDexters, can I take your order?"). So they have probably accumulated a huge fortune for black projects such as this.
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Post by Peregrin Toker »

Don't forget that Palpatine could have connection to a loyalist corporation which might have ferried raw ressources to Kamino in exchange for the clone army.

After all, Kamino was never part of the Galactic Republic - so its inhabitants don't necessarily use the same currency as the Republic. (Or??? I have not read any EU novels which deal with Kamino)
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Post by hvb »

Realistically, just how much of a budget dent would it make:
1000+ senators controling 50+ fully populated(by SW standards!) systems. Thying to hide what? ~1 million new clones per year for 10 years?
(assuming: "1 mill ready soon" = can be rushed online within the year?)

You could compare that to hiding the budget for raising and schooling one human clone in the US annual budget, and still come up overestimating, by several orders of magnitude likely as not, how petite a fraction you would be trying to hide! :shock:
(and around here cloning is still very much an experimental endevour, not so in the SW it would appear)
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Re: Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

Post by MKSheppard »

irishmick79 wrote: What do you all think?
This is going up on my fanfic resources page as a very clear, concise
look into a possible flaw/overlooked part of the SW canon
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Post by Ender »

Shep, did you really remove the sorucebooks form the site because of that fucking wanker?
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Re: Who paid for the clone army before the war broke out?

Post by irishmick79 »

MKSheppard wrote:
irishmick79 wrote: What do you all think?
This is going up on my fanfic resources page as a very clear, concise
look into a possible flaw/overlooked part of the SW canon
WO HOO! :D
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Ender wrote:Shep, did you really remove the sorucebooks form the site because of that fucking wanker?
Yes.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

It could have been any number of people. Certainly, Count Dooku and Palpatine had the currency to get something like this done, but it was also available to the Jedi Order. If we assume that Master Sifo Dyas actually did purchase the Army, he might have paid a considerable quantity as a down payment. While it would be difficult to believe that the Jedi Order could have missed such a substantial amount of currency, in a Galaxy the size of the SW one it's hardly impossible.
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Post by Death from the Sea »

Dooku put it on his Mastercard :lol: .

I think the money came from a variety of sources. The trade federation, black ops funding, budget surplus, Darth Maul aquisitions, etc...
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Post by Isolder74 »

The fact that the Kaminoans mistook Obi Wan for Sido Dias that they had never even seen whoever hired them to make the clone army. It could easily been Dooku(Tyranus) all along! It appears that the only one at Kamino who really knew what was going on was Jango Fett. Who paid for the Army? That is really up in the air! It could be just one or all of the option presented.

Skimmed funds from the Republic budget

Dooku's personal fortune

Money garnered from the Jedi Council budget(through the name of the now dead Sido Dias).

Sith funds from unknown souces.
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