Zam Wessell's Assassination

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-01 09:15pm

Why couldn't one of the Jedi Knights sense the incoming projectile fired at Zam Wessell's throat by Jango, and deflect it? If Jedi Outcast is any indication, then lightsabres can deflect metal projectiles. Even if they couldn't deflect it, couldn't they stop it with another force skill? Could their force senses have been somehow diminished by the situation? This has been bugging me for a while...

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-01 09:20pm

They are to busy constrating on other things to also be senceing for other people

Besides they where arrogent remeber that, And Arrogence is not the Light side of the Force is it?

Picture how Saluron was depicted(The swining the Mace and people going flying not the imortal part) and you get a better grasp of a Jedi in full-non-weakened kick ass mode

Those on Genoisis where not of course...

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2002-09-01 09:22pm

My only explanation is that maby with the Jedi on Coruscant at the time there was to much people around. Plus Obi Wan and Anakin wasn't searching for a life form that had assassination in mind. But still there Jedi and should have been paying attention.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2002-09-01 09:30pm

Or maybe they were focusing their powers on "persuading" Zam to talk (we didn't see any hand waving, but that doesn't mean they didn't use the power).

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-01 09:34pm

Lord of the Farce wrote:Or maybe they were focusing their powers on "persuading" Zam to talk (we didn't see any hand waving, but that doesn't mean they didn't use the power).

Yeah, my guess is that Anakin was trying to use the Force to make her talk, given his rather haphazard use of the Force...but that still leaves Obi-Wan, and he should have blocked it. Surely he could have blocked it if Jango had fired at him instead of Zam...

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-01 10:13pm

Perhaps it indicates an upper range limit on detecting "intentions", and the fact that both were concentrating on Zam. They would likely have had "danger sense" kick in if they had been fired upon. Perhaps it is also some for of instinct (like when you know you're being watched).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-01 10:35pm

Forget deflection, the light saber would have vaporized that tiny dart.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-09-01 11:32pm

I'm siding with the spider sense tingling effect. First off, Anakin was not paying attention to anything. He is always reckless to begin with. However, you can see he gets angry and wants to force Zam to talk. Obi Wan seemed a little off guard by Anakin's little surge. They might be keeping themselves open to keep them out of trouble, but they would have to concentrate to help anyone else. In fact, think of RotJ in Jabba's palace. Luke is so busy trying to take down Jabba he doesn't even know the floor is about to come out from under him.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-01 11:36pm

Perhaps they were being clouded by Palps.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-02 12:09am

1. The Dark Side was interfering with their ability to sense things. Remember how much trouble Obi-Wan and Anakin had detecting the attack on Padme, even though they were specifically there searching for such an assassination attempt?

2. I have always assumed that they were concentrating on convincing Zam to talk. Remember how the conversation was going at that point. There was a VERY brief attempt by Anakin to intimidate Zam, but that really should not have been the deciding factor in getting her to talk. She was already more or less at the mercy of the Jedi, being disarmed (literally and figuratively), and incapable of moving quickly enough to escape the two. There was no reason Anakin's scream should have persuaded her to talk, unless the Jedi were using their Force-aided powers of coersion at the time.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-09-02 12:52am

Master of Ossus wrote:1. The Dark Side was interfering with their ability to sense things. Remember how much trouble Obi-Wan and Anakin had detecting the attack on Padme, even though they were specifically there searching for such an assassination attempt?

2. I have always assumed that they were concentrating on convincing Zam to talk. Remember how the conversation was going at that point. There was a VERY brief attempt by Anakin to intimidate Zam, but that really should not have been the deciding factor in getting her to talk. She was already more or less at the mercy of the Jedi, being disarmed (literally and figuratively), and incapable of moving quickly enough to escape the two. There was no reason Anakin's scream should have persuaded her to talk, unless the Jedi were using their Force-aided powers of coersion at the time.

Topic 2 already agreed with my post. Topic 1 though, the were arguing at the time the droid was trying to kill Padme. They showed up resonably quick.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-02 01:06am

Yeah, I think that part 2 was by far the more important of the issues. I also think, though, that part 1 played SOME part in it.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2002-09-02 02:25pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Yeah, I think that part 2 was by far the more important of the issues. I also think, though, that part 1 played SOME part in it.

True. Considering these two lines.

Yoda : 'The Dark Side clouds everything.'

Mace Windu: 'I believe it is time to inform the senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished.'

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-03 04:11am

Maybe because both Obi Wan and Anakin ain't powerful enough at that time? Yoda and Windu may have detected it. Maybe Anakin and Obiwan are only low or medium level Jedi at that time, while high-level Jedi/Sith like Palpatine or Dooku can do the job fine (or maybe I've been playing RPG too much

)

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-11 05:09pm

That's why I hate the Force too much. I find the concept of having extra powers neat, but the whole "Force users are better than all other pathetic lifeforms" makes me sick.

I don't believe in the Force as a something that can make you all-knowing and all-powerful. Based on this case, and other saber-deflecting parts of this and other movies, these are my conclusions:

-the Force can be used passively. it will TELL you that something bad is going to happen *to you* and in some cases even where the blast is going to hit you (so you 'll never have your guard down, more or less).
-the Force can be used actively, for instance your mind is focused on protecting someone (such as Amidala in TPM) then you'll sense bolts not directly aimed at you.

Now the whole lightsaber-block has nothing to do about evil intentions, as a mental power - it obviously is about precognition of the immediate future (or else how could you block shots made by droids?).

Most Jedis are idiots (like Qui-Gon trying to use the mind-trick on a droid... the droid got confused by the illogical claim that they were escorting prisoners or whatever, then immediately called for the other guards... or Qui-Gon saying "you wiiiill give us the parts we need", "no, I won't giiive you crap unless you pay me"... "ok, lemme think... you wiiiil give us the parts..."), or bigots ("please don't tell me we've picked up another pathetic lifeform")

I love the Star Wars universe but I think Jedis suck, in fact I would invent a vaccine to prevent babies from developing midichlorian disease

I like when a non-force-powered person beats the crap out of those arrogant, overconfident Jedis, like Jango handing OB1 his ass, and turning the other Jedi into swiss cheese... it would have been really neat had he at least kicked Mace in the balls before getting beheaded

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-11 05:51pm

That's why I hate the Force too much. I find the concept of having extra powers neat, but the whole "Force users are better than all other pathetic lifeforms" makes me sick.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-11 05:57pm

The Force is not something that makes someone omnipotent. Instead, the Force grants limited powers, but there are limits on one's ability to use the Force. There is a price to be paid for excessive use of the Force (ref. Palpatine, SbS, Dark Tide I, etc.), and that price must be paid in order to access it. Note that even from the movies it is explicitly limited. Even Yoda cannot stop people from dying. Neither can Anakin Skywalker, despite his vow in AotC.

However, Force users ARE more powerful than someone with similar abilities who does not use the Force. Non-Force users can be extremely powerful, and the powers that the Force grants are not necessarily improvements upon what many people would consider valuable. Consider, if you will, that the Force does not allow someone to see all ends. What the Jedi consider to be important, many other people do not. Force powers and abilities possessed by the masses are different, and while the Force may be more powerful in some ways, there are other areas in which a regular Joe can be as good as any Jedi. Also, many Jedi cannot use certain powers. For instance, Jedi Master Corran Horn cannot use telekinesis.

Very powerful non-Force users are by no means worthless in the Galaxy. In some areas, they are very necessary because the Jedi's numbers are very small. The Jedi do not consider non-Force users to be pathetic at all, just different and potentially, but not necessarily, more limited. Note how they are important enough to be studied in detail by Anakin Solo while he was under the tutelage of Mara Jade. Also note how many non-Force users are inordinately lucky, such as Han Solo or Jar Jar Binks. The Force acts in mysterious ways, and even places (like Tatooine) can be favored by the Force. Clearly even the Jedi do not know all there is to be understood about its methods, and cannot access all of its insight.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-11 09:04pm

Most Jedis are idiots (like Qui-Gon trying to use the mind-trick on a droid... the droid got confused by the illogical claim that they were escorting prisoners or whatever, then immediately called for the other guards... or Qui-Gon saying "you wiiiill give us the parts we need", "no, I won't giiive you crap unless you pay me"... "ok, lemme think... you wiiiil give us the parts..."), or bigots ("please don't tell me we've picked up another pathetic lifeform")

Qui-Gon doesn't try to force Watto to give him any parts. Jedi can be very sneaky; he could STEAL the parts if he really wanted to. He simply uses the mind trick to convince Watto to accept the worthless Republic currency (gotta love inflation) and fails. There was nothing unfair about Qui-Gon's treatment of Watto, other than perhaps the dice roll (but then again, he was trying to free an unjustly imprisoned slave).

About the "pathetic lifeform" comment; the last lifeform they picked up was Jar Jar Binks. Give Obi-Wan some slack.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-11 09:07pm

About the "pathetic lifeform" comment; the last lifeform they picked up was Jar Jar Binks. Give Obi-Wan some slack.

Lol I have to agree with you on this one

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-12 10:54am

Durran Korr wrote:
Most Jedis are idiots (like Qui-Gon trying to use the mind-trick on a droid... the droid got confused by the illogical claim that they were escorting prisoners or whatever, then immediately called for the other guards... or Qui-Gon saying "you wiiiill give us the parts we need", "no, I won't giiive you crap unless you pay me"... "ok, lemme think... you wiiiil give us the parts..."), or bigots ("please don't tell me we've picked up another pathetic lifeform")
Qui-Gon doesn't try to force Watto to give him any parts. Jedi can be very sneaky; he could STEAL the parts if he really wanted to. He simply uses the mind trick to convince Watto to accept the worthless Republic currency (gotta love inflation) and fails. There was nothing unfair about Qui-Gon's treatment of Watto, other than perhaps the dice roll (but then again, he was trying to free an unjustly imprisoned slave).

About the "pathetic lifeform" comment; the last lifeform they picked up was Jar Jar Binks. Give Obi-Wan some slack.

I know he doesn't want him to give them for free, but when he fails the first time, he doesn't get it, puts up an idiotic face and tries again. I was quoting him from memory (I think those are his actual words, even if he indended to pay for them with toy money)

Then you have the whole "the mind-tricks work against the weak minded" - but the mind-trick works wonderfully against the gungan leader. Which is probably one of the strongest-minded Gungans. Has any Jedi ever attempted to use a mind-trick on a non-weak-minded which doesn't have any racial immunity to it? What was the result?

Actually, if there's anyone to be given some slack is Qui-Gon because he gives OB1 an annoyed look after the "pathetic lifeform" comment (some spankin' would have been nice).

But the most annoying power of the Jedis is the ability to smirk in amusement so much .

Smiling Bandit · Post by **Smiling Bandit** » 2002-09-13 12:23pm

Of course, I notice that you are all assuming Obi-Wan and Anakin could have drawn their lightsabers and hit the target in the amount of time available. That may or may not have been possible. As fast as they are, they need to concentrate, and they may not be strong enough to move superfast, line up the target, and vaporize it, all while watching the dart traveling at very high speeds, particularly since they were not in a very good position to defend.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-13 12:50pm

Then you have the whole "the mind-tricks work against the weak minded" - but the mind-trick works wonderfully against the gungan leader. Which is probably one of the strongest-minded Gungans. Has any Jedi ever attempted to use a mind-trick on a non-weak-minded which doesn't have any racial immunity to it? What was the result?

Boss Nass refused to look past his own selfish bigotry and acknowledge that the invading Trade Federation presented a threat to not only the Naboo, but to his own people as well. Sounds pretty weak-minded to me.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-13 01:01pm

My point exactly. Maybe if they had been the ones being targeted, they might have instinctively drawn their sabers and defended (since the saber takes a fraction of a second to light, it would have been foolish since getting out of the way would have worked better in such situation).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remeber even seeing any examples of any Jedi deflecting shots by drawing their sabers *after* being shot at. Every time I see them block attacks they are in a ready position with lightsaber extended (including the Mace vs. Jango scene or the Queen-escort scene of TPM).

Kosh_The_Vorlon · Post by **Kosh_The_Vorlon** » 2002-09-17 05:13pm

Most Jedis are idiots (like Qui-Gon trying to use the mind-trick on a droid... the droid got confused by the illogical claim that they were escorting prisoners or whatever, then immediately called for the other guards

Pay closer attention the next time you watch that scene..The droid was making fun of him