ANH Trench Run

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-08-08 03:29pm

If I recall correctly, EU sources have stated that the TIE/ln is slightly quicker and more maneuverable than the T-65 X-Wing. Going from the games (I know they're generally worthless, but they're the only references I have handy at the moment), the computer games have the two at similar speeds, though the TIE is slightly more maneuverable, while the new RPG has the two at similar speeds in deep space but the TIE quicker in an atmosphere. This should be the same in the old RPG, as I believe WOTC just ripped off WEG's old numbers.

The comment about going in full speed seems to refer to the entrance. Luke's dialog suggests that the other attackers entered at low speed and then accelerated down the trench, whereas his flight will enter at top speed and continue down the trench (pg. 169, line is "Never mind finding the trench and then accelerating. Maybe that will keep those fighters far enough behind us.")

During the first pass (using the novelization now), Wedge makes a comment about the TIEs approaching at "oh point three." Given that they're approaching from behind, this probably is not a measurement of location, and suggests that they're traveling .3 units faster than Blue Flight (novelization has Luke as Blue Five instead of Red Five).

Andras · Post by **Andras** » 2003-08-11 04:46pm

TIE speed was 5d or 10 in WEG, XWing was 4d or 8

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-08-11 04:52pm

Andras wrote:TIE speed was 5d or 10 in WEG, XWing was 4d or 8

WEG is shit. From the canon films, a TIE fighter can't outrun the Falcon at sublight and the Falcon can't outrun an ISD at sublight. Is an X-wing really supposed to be slower than all of those?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-08-11 07:34pm

I realise this is hardly canon, but the old ILM speed chart showed that at least the intent of ILM was to have the TIE Fighter having superior speed to the Falcon (100 vs. 75 MGLT) at the time of Endor.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-08-11 07:55pm

The approach to the Death Star by the X-wings and Y-wings conclusively demonstrates that the X-wing can move faster than it did in the trench.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-08-11 07:57pm

Don't want to beat a dead horse but ANH was on TBS last night, I watched the Trench Run and Luke definately says "Increase speed to full throttle." while within the Trench.

I think it's either full throttle being the only way they can fight past the time space interference that Illuminatus is talking about or full throttle relative to atmospheric speed.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-08-12 07:13am

Stravo wrote:Don't want to beat a dead horse but ANH was on TBS last night, I watched the Trench Run and Luke definately says "Increase speed to full throttle." while within the Trench.

I think it's either full throttle being the only way they can fight past the time space interference that Illuminatus is talking about or full throttle relative to atmospheric speed.

or it's their full speed and they made a micro-jump to get to the DS

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-08-12 07:40am

Crazedwraith wrote:
Stravo wrote:Don't want to beat a dead horse but ANH was on TBS last night, I watched the Trench Run and Luke definately says "Increase speed to full throttle." while within the Trench.

I think it's either full throttle being the only way they can fight past the time space interference that Illuminatus is talking about or full throttle relative to atmospheric speed.
or it's their full speed and they made a micro-jump to get to the DS

Contradicted by onscreen evidence, I believe. There was no time or place for a microjump to Hyperspace.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-08-12 07:55am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:
Stravo wrote:Don't want to beat a dead horse but ANH was on TBS last night, I watched the Trench Run and Luke definately says "Increase speed to full throttle." while within the Trench.

I think it's either full throttle being the only way they can fight past the time space interference that Illuminatus is talking about or full throttle relative to atmospheric speed.
or it's their full speed and they made a micro-jump to get to the DS
Contradicted by onscreen evidence, I believe. There was no time or place for a microjump to Hyperspace.

huh? well its a while since i watched ANH but wasn't there was all that time between their launch and when we see them in formation when red lead says "lock s-foils to attack postion" I fail to see how there needs to be a different time and space for a micro-jump that for a ultra-fast sublight trip.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-08-12 07:55am

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Any reference to "maximum speeD" in this instance probably would refer more towards atmospheric speed (how fast they might travel on a planet or moon or other large mass) - remember that the AOTC ICS suggests that SW ships are easily capable of hypersonic speeds (12,000-20,000 km/hr)
Clan Mcleod's finest shows us what's up methinks.

Definitely. One could even perhaps suggest that they were operating on repulsors at the time. Repulsors could provide the delicate manoeuvring capability necessary to operate in the trench, and to allow them to operate while interacting with not only the gravity field but the intense jamming of the DS. The other evidence (as elucidated above) shows them clearly capable of a higher speed; so the real question is the motivation behind the reference...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-08-12 08:02am

Stravo wrote:Don't want to beat a dead horse but ANH was on TBS last night, I watched the Trench Run and Luke definately says "Increase speed to full throttle." while within the Trench.

I think it's either full throttle being the only way they can fight past the time space interference that Illuminatus is talking about or full throttle relative to atmospheric speed.

Luke also had zero experience in the X-wing and could only fly it because the T-16 had almost the exact same controls. he's never flown in combat before any was almost certainly exaggerating or not giving the correct command for what he meant which might be full military power, which on current combat aircraft is the highest power without afterburners. The X-wing likely has a similar setting.

Edit: In my morning haze I may not be thinking straight and full military power could be full burner, but whatever maximum dry thrust is, well you get the point.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-08-12 10:17am

No, no, you've got it right. Full military power is maximum throttle with no burners.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-08-12 11:03am

Sea Skimmer wrote: Edit: In my morning haze I may not be thinking straight and full military power could be full burner, but whatever maximum dry thrust is, well you get the point.

Full military power is maximum dry thrust irrespective of if the aircraft has afterburners or not (in fact the term can be used with propellor aircraft). Afterburners are considered differently.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-08-12 11:33am

I find it difficult to believe that the X-Wings were going at maximum acceleration. You have to consider that the Death Star is a sphere roughly 160 km in diameter. That may seem large, but when we're talking about fighters capable of tens of thousands of meters per second of acceleration, it's a trivial distance. In other words, if those X-Wings were going full throttle down the trench, it would be humanly impossible for the pilots to maneuver their fighters to keep skimming the curved surface. The X-Wings would fly off at a tangent vector.