AT-AT's in battle of Endor

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-23 04:53pm

Simply knocking down a tree isn't enough, you need to be able to get over the resulting debris, and the AT-AT cannot lift is legs very high. Combine a field of huge fallen trees while remotely rough terrain an AT-AT would soon find the situation impassable.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 04:58pm

The Battle of Endor kind of makes one wonder exactly what it was about walkers that was so "all-terrain". The only thing I can think of is they didn't have some of the peculiar flaws common to repulsorcraft, but wouldn't wheeled vehicles or tanks be preferable to a robotic mech?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-23 05:29pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:The Battle of Endor kind of makes one wonder exactly what it was about walkers that was so "all-terrain". The only thing I can think of is they didn't have some of the peculiar flaws common to repulsorcraft, but wouldn't wheeled vehicles or tanks be preferable to a robotic mech?

Not against mines. The Walker type vehicle are used by clonetroopers and stormtroopers: The Republic/Empire's marines. It can just walk over the mines and those that explode are too far below them to do any damage. Now regular army does use treaded, wheeled, and repulsar vehicles.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 05:39pm

I thought the walkers were under the jurisdiction of the Army, not the stromtroopers. The Army phased out heavy wheeled assault vehicles like the juggernaut in favor of the AT-AT, which in turn was also favored over hovertanks and the like. As for mines, wouldn't having a foot blown off total an AT-PT, AT-ST or AT-AT? I can see the AT-TE limping home however.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-23 05:40pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:I thought the walkers were under the jurisdiction of the Army, not the stromtroopers. The Army phased out heavy wheeled assault vehicles like the juggernaut in favor of the AT-AT, which in turn was also favored over hovertanks and the like. As for mines, wouldn't having a foot blown off total an AT-PT, AT-ST or AT-AT? I can see the AT-TE limping home however.

No.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 05:44pm

Huh? So you're saying not having a leg is not a fatal flaw for a 100 ton robot? Or are you saying that there isn't a mine powerful to do the job? In the case of the scout walkers and AT-PTs, I would beg to differ, their armor is nothing to write home about.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-23 06:38pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:Huh? So you're saying not having a leg is not a fatal flaw for a 100 ton robot? Or are you saying that there isn't a mine powerful to do the job? In the case of the scout walkers and AT-PTs, I would beg to differ, their armor is nothing to write home about.

I was stating that your entire post was wrong. As I already explained and is shown by the Imperial Sourcebook, Walkers belong to the stormtroopers, the marines of the Empire. That eliminates half of your post right there. I was also saying no it would not hamper it because we have seen walkers take strikes to the legs greater then mines with no problems. Unless of course you would love to take the moronic position of multi KT landmines being used against infantry and vehicles.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 07:39pm

AT-AT conceded, we see this in TESB, but we never see AT-STs absorbing turbolaser hits. In fact, they can't withstand two swinging logs or a hard fall, let alone four hits from a laser cannon. By extension the armor on an AT-PT would be even less.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-12-23 07:51pm

You forget, that the AT-AT is by far NOT the heaviest walker of the Empire. Take as example the one called "Ultra-Heavy" by Saxton. That thing is a least double the size of an AT-AT!
Also, there are lot of bipedal, better armored walkers. I bet they simply used the AT-ST on Endor because of overconfidence.
So you can't say that the Empire only got one good armored walker.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 07:58pm

There are several models of AT-AT, the ones in General Veers' Blizzard unit were the latest and the greatest at that time. I was refering to the bipeds because they don't make sense if the only reason you're using walkers in the first place is the fear of mines.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-12-23 08:03pm

Ender wrote: Unless of course you would love to take the moronic position of multi KT landmines being used against infantry and vehicles.

The US Army did it.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-23 08:06pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Ender wrote: Unless of course you would love to take the moronic position of multi KT landmines being used against infantry and vehicles.
The US Army did it.

Uhh... I don't think we have anything quite that powerful.
It'd be nice though!

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-24 12:12am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Ender wrote: Unless of course you would love to take the moronic position of multi KT landmines being used against infantry and vehicles.
The US Army did it.

a) that was the british, not us
b) I've never seen anything on thier yield

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-24 12:35am

Lazy Raptor wrote:AT-AT conceded, we see this in TESB, but we never see AT-STs absorbing turbolaser hits. In fact, they can't withstand two swinging logs

Momentum

or a hard fall,

Momentum

let alone four hits from a laser cannon. [/quote]Intensity and agaisnt the body, not the legs.

By extension the armor on an AT-PT would be even less.

Justify that position. We are talking the legs here as those would be what are stepping on the mines, and the legs of an AT-PT and its stance are far more secure.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-24 01:09am

The AT-PT's weakness to mines has nothing to do with its stance. It's by far the smallest of the walkers and its small stature means there isn't enough distance between the mine and the command pod to significantly negate the damage. Didn't you say that the whole point of a walker is for its legs to keep it up off the ground to protect the body from splash damage from a mine? In the AT-PT this advantage is minimal at best. Point conceded in regards to armor strength of head vs. legs, as this is backed up by canon. But if an AT-PT would strike a mine the head will be taking the blast.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-24 01:28am

Tribun wrote:I bet they simply used the AT-ST on Endor because of overconfidence.

No, they used it because it was the best walker for the job and it did it's job well. They were utterly routing the Rebel/Ewok forces before Chewbacca hijacked the one. It was not that the AT-ST was inadequate to the job; it's that troops and officers employing them were badly unprepared.

Tribun wrote:So you can't say that the Empire only got one good armored walker.

No one is saying that. What we've been pointing out is that the terrain made the back entrance impassable to the larger walker, explaining their absence.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-12-24 04:44am

I still cannot see, how could the trees stop an AT-AT. There was no direct example of any AT-ST destroying a tree only to get through (at least I cannot remember), so we can assume that there were more than enough space between the really big trees (those that cannot be bulldozed by the leg of an AT-AT) for the slope of an AT-AT to place. The only problem I can see occurs when a broken and fallen tree and the ground underneath is strong enough to hold approximately half the weight of an AT-AT without much deformation (the ground remains straight and the tree remains curved, so it can move while the AT-AT is standing on it) and the walker is forced to step on it. I do not know about the strenght of those trees and the weight of an AT-AT to decide whether it is a real problem at all.
Merry Christmas!

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-24 01:04pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:The AT-PT's weakness to mines has nothing to do with its stance. It's by far the smallest of the walkers and its small stature means there isn't enough distance between the mine and the command pod to significantly negate the damage. Didn't you say that the whole point of a walker is for its legs to keep it up off the ground to protect the body from splash damage from a mine? In the AT-PT this advantage is minimal at best. Point conceded in regards to armor strength of head vs. legs, as this is backed up by canon. But if an AT-PT would strike a mine the head will be taking the blast.

Magic word: Intensity.

IIRC, the head is 3 meters off the ground. If the mine was 1 kiloton in strength, that means that the walker will get 3 MJ per square centimeter. That is far weaker then a blaster bolt (which are both more powerful and far more intense), and we know the things can shrug off blaster bolts.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-12-26 10:07am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Simply knocking down a tree isn't enough, you need to be able to get over the resulting debris, and the AT-AT cannot lift is legs very high. Combine a field of huge fallen trees while remotely rough terrain an AT-AT would soon find the situation impassable.

Yet, the AT-AT was able to tranverse the north ridge of Hoth, where just recently, a blizzard was flying around creating presumably deep snow.