EU overview: Battle of Kalaan CG movie from Force Commader

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-13 10:43am

Just a small overview of BoK I made, with lots of screens.
http://www.lab321.ru/~stas/eu/BoK.html

(comment: I know all the Rebel and Imperial vehicles have proper names from EU, but I did not use most of them for the purpose of simlifying the overview).

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-13 11:04am

Nicely done. I have two things to say though:
-Analysis is spelled with only one "y".
-How do you arrive at the conclusion that the firepower of a hovertank is equal to that of an AT-ST and the firepower of a tracked tank is equal to that of an AT-AT?

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2004-01-13 12:00pm

I don't recall seeing any tri-wing shuttles in ANH, other than the model Luke was playing with (although it wasn't a shuttle.) Were they added in the Special Edition?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-13 12:17pm

GySgt. Hartman
Yeah, no doubt... excuse me. English is not one of my strong points

and the firepower of a tracked tank is equal to that of an AT-AT?
Well, that's what I suppose - it is not derived from the sequence but from the actual game where the hover is the AT-ST analogue and the chainrack HT is the AT-AT analogue.
Drooling Iguana
Yes, they are in the ANH SE. Trooper landing shuttles, they are.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-01-13 01:27pm

English is not one of my strong points

No need to excuse yourself I just wanted to help.

I dont' play the game, so I can't really comment on that.
What do you mean with "firepower"?
The republic vessels both seem to have rocket launchers, whereas the AT-AT only has guns, and the AT-ST just guns and a grenade launcher.
Did you compare total firepower or just the power of the guns?

Black Admiral · Post by **Black Admiral** » 2004-01-13 01:49pm

GySgt. Hartman wrote:I dont' play the game, so I can't really comment on that.
What do you mean with "firepower"?
The republic vessels both seem to have rocket launchers, whereas the AT-AT only has guns, and the AT-ST just guns and a grenade launcher.
Did you compare total firepower or just the power of the guns?

IIRC (its been a long time since I played Force Commander) the total firepower is roughly equal.

Darth Phoenix · Post by **Darth Phoenix** » 2004-01-13 02:44pm

Very interesting and good analysis.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-13 02:52pm

Interesting and very nicely done.

Incidentally, this sequence can only be described as siding firmly with the "stormtroopers are not clones" argument, since we see several stormtroopers without their helmets and all of them look different, however if there are several varieties of stormtroopers it is potentially true that they are still clones and that we unfortunately didn't manage to see the resemblance.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-13 02:52pm

Maybe this should be moved into the "Ground weapon page" in the SWvST forum.....

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-13 03:02pm

Tribun wrote:Maybe this should be moved into the "Ground weapon page" in the SWvST forum.....

Well, we can't merge threads, and it really doesn't have anything to do with ST on its own, so I think the current placement is fine.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-01-13 03:20pm

FYI: The Tantor brothers were not stormtroopers, but Imperial Army. They were allowed to tag along with the unit as "honorary" stormtroopers.

The Yutrane-Takata tanks used by the Rebels are inferior to Imperial models and can barely hold their own against walkers. The "hover tank" has twin blaster cannons for anti-infantry purposes only and a flak pod for air defense. The tracked "attack tank" has heavy laser cannons roughly equal to those on an AT-ST for engaging other vehicles. It is also equiped with proton missiles which I assumed was how they can bring an AT-AT down. The Sentinel class landers were around at that time, and as far as I knew, Cygnus drew the designs off of Sienar's Lambda class shuttles.

[Edit]: BTW: The mech you see salvaging the Rebel tank is indeed in the game. It's a heavy Rebel repair droid used for repairing both vehicles and prefab structures.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-01-13 04:35pm

Wow, that was a great movie and a fine analysis. I wish they had made a movie like that for Galactic Battle Grounds instead of lame clips from the OT. An exciting ground battle, with interesting vehicle deployment, and battle formations. Although it appears that the Alliance vehicles were largely outclassed by their Imperial counterparts.

I suppose that Kalaan also had a planetary shield that prevented an orbital bombardment.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-01-13 05:18pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Although it appears that the Alliance vehicles were largely outclassed by their Imperial counterparts.

And rightly so.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-01-13 06:10pm

The AT-AA also appears in Galactic Battlegrounds, but it's a mobile SAM launcher instead.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-13 06:20pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose that Kalaan also had a planetary shield that prevented an orbital bombardment.

If that were the case Bombers would not have been present. Likely it either had something of value that they didn't want to bombard over or risk destroying, or the CO of the orbiting ships just weren't the typical stackpole evil for evil's sake commanders.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-13 08:38pm

Ender wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose that Kalaan also had a planetary shield that prevented an orbital bombardment.
If that were the case Bombers would not have been present. Likely it either had something of value that they didn't want to bombard over or risk destroying, or the CO of the orbiting ships just weren't the typical stackpole evil for evil's sake commanders.

That causes trouble for the only good excuse we had for Marine walkers...

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2004-01-13 11:34pm

Stas Bush wrote:GySgt. Hartman
Yeah, no doubt... excuse me. English is not one of my strong points
and the firepower of a tracked tank is equal to that of an AT-AT?
Well, that's what I suppose - it is not derived from the sequence but from the actual game where the hover is the AT-ST analogue and the chainrack HT is the AT-AT analogue.
Drooling Iguana
Yes, they are in the ANH SE. Trooper landing shuttles, they are.

They're the anologues, but the AT-AT is clearly superior to the Yutrane-Takata T-3B Attack Tank (the treaded one). Going by game mechanics, the AT-AT deals 75 damage per shot, while the T-3B deals 50 per shot.
The T-1B is more of an AT-AA/AT-PT combo than an AT-ST analogue.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2004-01-14 12:24am

Are there any other examples of Rebel/New Republic armor from the EU?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-14 02:37am

Darth Yoshi
Yes, the T3B is inferior by game stats, and I know it was confirmed by LA that AT-AT is the most powerful war mech in SW strategies.
But still, judging on the T3-B visual armament which includes 1 proton missile launcher, this well compensates for the lowered gunpower.
I agree with you on T1B, but it's guns are I think roughly the same power as the AT-ST chin guns. Remember that the AT-ST carries more additional armament than the T1B, which has only one flak pod aside from the main turret. That is why, the AT-ST is more powerful.
Lazy Raptor
Yes, the rebels have a lot of the old and stolen Imperial ULAVs (ultra-light attack vehicles), which are essentialy speeders, but lightly armored. Then they have a vehicle rejected by the Empire - the Armored Freerunner, and they have the Heavy Tracker which is somewhat similar to the T3B tank in power, albeit presumably slower. They have the stolen AT-PTs from Moff Sierdon's facility. Then they have the Loratus Hover Transport TC9, which has anti-armor guns but is lightly armored and shielded, and the Loratus Mobile Proton Torpedo Launchers. And - oh last but not least - the stolen Imperial TR-MB (Tracked-Mobile Base).
And of course a lot of civilian speeders and transports modified for battle purpose.
I don't know if the rebels got any Chariot speeders, but may be.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-14 03:03am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Ender wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I suppose that Kalaan also had a planetary shield that prevented an orbital bombardment.
If that were the case Bombers would not have been present. Likely it either had something of value that they didn't want to bombard over or risk destroying, or the CO of the orbiting ships just weren't the typical stackpole evil for evil's sake commanders.
That causes trouble for the only good excuse we had for Marine walkers...

I fail to see how.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-14 03:16am

Lazy Raptor,
the rebel repair droid? Oh too bad I didn't play the game for the Rebels (only passed the Empire's campaign). I'll correct that.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-14 04:15am

In the Battle of Kalaan for the first time in Post-AOTC era we see air support for Imperial ground forces. The TIE Bombers were deployed simultaneously with the walker force - they begun bombing the Rebel sanctuary even before the battle.

Chronologically speaking, I don't know if its the first post-AOTC, but in 'real life' terms, the Empire uses XG-1 StarWing fighters in support of AT-ATs in a cutscene in X-Wing (1993).

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2004-01-14 05:50am

Well I really don't know now, Vympel.
The FC scene is also prior to ANH.
The Assault Gunboats scene... letmethink... is it prior to ANH as well?

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-14 09:06am

Stas Bush wrote:Well I really don't know now, Vympel.
The FC scene is also prior to ANH.
The Assault Gunboats scene... letmethink... is it prior to ANH as well?

Yep, the cutscene in X-Wing shows a ground attack during operation "Strike Fear". Assault gunboats, brand new and not tested in space battle yet (that happend in the next campaign) bombardes the rebel base.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-14 06:05pm

Ender wrote:I fail to see how.

Well previously it was depicted as if on well-defended worlds, elite forces/marines would set down in walkers which could advance to within the shield perimeter overhead because they were grounded with the surface (this would be prevent air support from outside the shield perimeter) and defended from the mine fields by height, whereas tracked or wheeled vehicles would be routed in mine fields, and repulsorlift vehicles would be disrupted/damaged by discharges off the shield edge.

I suppose we could say the assault force was by Destroyers, which only carry significant Marine support, and thus only walker armor.