Dreadnought HC

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-15 09:42pm

Anyone have the dimensions (other than LOA) or mass of the Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser?

I want to do a calc based on the JAT.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 10:57pm

Which dreadnaught are you doing? The Standard one, a Katana, or one of the Imperial-built dreadnaught (I believe they're tentatively called Warspite).

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-15 11:06pm

Stormbringer wrote:Which dreadnaught are you doing? The Standard one, a Katana, or one of the Imperial-built dreadnaught (I believe they're tentatively called Warspite).

Wasn't Warspite a Nebulon-B?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-15 11:14pm

They're all Rendili StarDrive Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruisers.

They come in four varieties:

Old Republic standard (original model)

Katana subclass

Imperial refit

New Republic/Rebel Alliance refit

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 11:22pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:They're all Rendili StarDrive Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruisers.

The Katana-class and the Standard Old Republic might well be kin (I wouldn't really call them the same class) and share the same space frame .

But the Warspite type are definitely not Rendili Dreadnaugts. There forward section is all wrong for a RSD Dreadnaught and their after section is closer but still distinctly different. I doubt that they are a refit, far too extensive. If I knew how I'd get you a screen cap of it.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-15 11:30pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:They're all Rendili StarDrive Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruisers.
The Katana-class and the Standard Old Republic might well be kin (I wouldn't really call them the same class) and share the same space frame.

The Katana and original are subclasses. The Katana is the same ship, with more efficient systems and power sources because of more automation and fewer crewmen.

Stormbringer wrote:But the Warspite type are definitely not Rendili Dreadnaugts. There forward section is all wrong for a RSD Dreadnaught and their after section is closer but still distinctly different. I doubt that they are a refit, far too extensive. If I knew how I'd get you a screen cap of it.

Probably a follow-up similar design for a similar mission, but a distinct class. Same general size? Consider it analogous to the Victory-class and the Rendili StarDrive design destroyers in orbit around Balmorra in Dark Empire II. Even so, the Empire did field refits of the Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser.

You know the Rebel Assault Frigates are distinct classes derived from total rebuilds of the Dreadnought-class spaceframe.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-15 11:41pm

The Katana and original are subclasses. The Katana is the same ship, with more efficient systems and power sources because of more automation and fewer crewmen.

I wasn't denying that they're very similar ships but the redesign for the Katanas so fundamentally changes the ships that they constitute a seperate class.

Probably a follow-up similar design for a similar mission, but a distinct class. Same general size? Consider it analogous to the Victory-class and the Rendili StarDrive design destroyers in orbit around Balmorra in Dark Empire II. Even so, the Empire did field refits of the Dreadnought-class Heavy Cruiser.

They probably are a more efficient and effective follow on class to the orginal Dreadnaughts. I'm not sure how they'd stack up against the orginal in terms of dimensions but it's definitely a unique class.

You know the Rebel Assault Frigates are distinct classes derived from total rebuilds of the Dreadnought-class spaceframe.

It was a very extensive rebuild, but there the basic frame is still there.

The Warspite on the other hand is most likely a new class. The Empire doesn't have the desperate need for hulls the Rebellion and so have no need for the sort of radical rebuilds that produced the Assualt Frigates.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-02-16 12:11am

Rebel assault frigates always struck me as a crossbreed dreadnought/Nebulon-B. *Shrug* They just look that way.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-16 12:11am

Stormbringer wrote:I wasn't denying that they're very similar ships but the redesign for the Katanas so fundamentally changes the ships that they constitute a seperate class.

No, it just got a new computer suite and shoved in more ordinance with the available room.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-16 12:11am

Length is known: 600 meters. Based on the EGW&T, the ratio of ooverall length to height is roughly 7:1 for the first 2/3 of the ship (which is approximately consistent in thickness.) The end 1/3 of the ship, mostly the engines, is considerably thicker, so the ratio is 5:1.

Width to Length of the first 2/3 of the ship is 6:5, while for the last 1/3 engine block its nearly 9:10 (effectively a 1:1 ratio, to be simplified.)

This means the following: first 2/3 of the ship is: 400 m long, 86 meters tall, and ~103 meters wide.

The last 1/3 of the ship is 200 meters long, 120 meters wide, and 120 meters tall.

I'm guessing this is an attempt to calculate TL firepower frfom the momentum delivered to a dreadnaught by the Galactic Voyager's TLs (enough to visibly shove the dreadnaught to one side) in "Champions of the Force."

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-16 12:12am

Good guess. I wanted to have it around for a lower limit as well as to thwart some people that said KJA is always consistently not with ICS levels of firepower.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-16 12:20am

Are you referring to Bulk Cruisers? They have nothing to do with Dreadnaughts, aside from the slight similarity (not surprising, since Rendili produced bulk cruisers as well as the Dreadnaught.)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-16 12:23am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I wasn't denying that they're very similar ships but the redesign for the Katanas so fundamentally changes the ships that they constitute a seperate class.
No, it just got a new computer suite and shoved in more ordinance with the available room.

And eliminated a several thousands crewers by introducing massive automation. You don't do that with out a fairly extensive reworking.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Are you referring to Bulk Cruisers? They have nothing to do with Dreadnaughts, aside from the slight similarity (not surprising, since Rendili produced bulk cruisers as well as the Dreadnaught.)

No, in several of the X-Wing games there is a Dreadnaught type vessels that is clearly different from the standard dreadnaught design.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-16 12:24am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Are you referring to Bulk Cruisers? They have nothing to do with Dreadnaughts, aside from the slight similarity (not surprising, since Rendili produced bulk cruisers as well as the Dreadnaught.)

Talking to Stormbringer?

I agree; one nice thing about WEG is usually they were consistent with aesthetics of a company. Though Rendili did get into the arrowhead-SDs.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-16 12:39am

Its probably not going to do much good. For one thing, they were trying to disable, not destroy the ship. That sort of rules out max-power shots. For another thing, its not very specific about the number of guns fired (or barrels)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-02-16 12:44am

Yeah; my calcs are yielding on the megaton range.

Still though, three salvos knocked out the engines good and broke through the shields. Subjectively that's a lot of firepower.

I should've known it wasn't much help without a direct idea of how much the thing was shoved over.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-02-16 12:29pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I wasn't denying that they're very similar ships but the redesign for the Katanas so fundamentally changes the ships that they constitute a seperate class.
No, it just got a new computer suite and shoved in more ordinance with the available room.

Well, there is some historical precedent for relatively minor changes denoting a new class -- some publications classify USS Theodore Roosevelt and later as a distinct class from the Nimitz design despite there not being too many differences between them.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-02-16 12:42pm

phongn wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I wasn't denying that they're very similar ships but the redesign for the Katanas so fundamentally changes the ships that they constitute a seperate class.
No, it just got a new computer suite and shoved in more ordinance with the available room.
Well, there is some historical precedent for relatively minor changes denoting a new class -- some publications classify USS Theodore Roosevelt and later as a distinct class from the Nimitz design despite there not being too many differences between them.

Reducing the crew by 14,000 bodies is far more of a redesign than the Theodore Roosevelt.

[i]Dark Force Rising[/i], page 58 wrote:"Nearly right," Karrde said. "The Dreadnaughts of that era in particular were ridiculously crew-intensive ships, requiring upwards of sixteen thousand men each. The full-rig slave circuitry on the Katana ships cut that complement down to around two thousand."

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-02-16 02:48pm

Stormbringer wrote:Reducing the crew by 14,000 bodies is far more of a redesign than the Theodore Roosevelt.

That was my point.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-02-16 03:36pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Rebel assault frigates always struck me as a crossbreed dreadnought/Nebulon-B. *Shrug* They just look that way.

They are a major refit of the dreadnaut design. They leave little of the structure of the dreadnaut intact.