do Jedi smoke?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

We don't know what smoking is like in Star Wars. Maybe they've refined it in such a way that you retain the high with no significant long-term health risks. After all, Gandalf and just about every other character in Lord of the Rings was a dirty reefer addict.

Is there even any high? What if it's more like Tobacco instead?

It is.

[Slartibartfast]

Remember that this is the same guy who said that even if some other author writes it, it's still Lucas universe and he must have thought everything about it in advance.

So in effect, EU writers are just typewriting monkeys able to read Georgie's mind.

Lol ! This is actually not MY argument, but the argument of the EU apologists on these forums.

Lie.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=7240

Basically dozens of Kurgan's posts saying that Lucas copied Dune because the EU writers copied Dune.

Though they do have a point, Lucas (or somebody representing him through his company) DOES "approve everything that's official" (whatever that means) and so in whatever sense, whatever is in the EU is "his will" even though he freely contradicts it when he chooses.

See? You keep defending the ludicrous point that if Lucas approved it, then he drew inspiration from the same sources than the approved writer. If an EU author makes a book about a Blockade Runner crashing into a desert island planet and having all kinds of wacky adventures, it means Lucas drew inspiration from Gilligan's Island for his movies... can you really not see the nonsense in your argument?

See, this is why I can't win. If I defend the EU, I'm an EU apologist, if I attack the EU, I'm a purist asshole. If I denigrate Star Wars I must hate it, if I approve it, I must be a fanboy wanker!

Defending or attacking the EU books has nothing to do with being totally unable to grasp the concept that approving doesn't equal writing them himself. So spare us the persecution complex and gigantic appeals to motive.

Well, I guess you can't please everybody, especially when they build their Walls of Ignorance so high.

So you say a lot of bullshit, and then when people call you on it you call it a Wall of Ignorance. Gotcha.

(emphasis added) Non sequitur in that last sentence btw.

I see, you have discovered my evil plan to make everyone in this forum believe that EU authors are really really monkeys with typewriters. Humanity owes you big time.

[Durandal]

We don't know what smoking is like in Star Wars. Maybe they've refined it in such a way that you retain the high with no significant long-term health risks. After all, Gandalf and just about every other character in Lord of the Rings was a dirty reefer addict.

Is there even any high? What if it's more like Tobacco instead?

Nicotine is what gives you the high, so probably not. I imagine that they smoke pipe weed like people here smoke cigars, for the taste. You'll notice that they always puffed the pipes, never really inhaling.

[Peregrin Toker]

You're suggesting that The God Emperor of the Known Universe, Leto II, is the inspiration for a sweaty crimelord?

All I said was that they vaguely resembled each other, not that Leto II was the main inspiration for Jabba.

[Kurgan]

Lie.

Basically dozens of Kurgan's posts saying that Lucas copied Dune because the EU writers copied Dune.

Strawman, admitting influence of one upon the other isn't the same thing as saying that Lucas plagiarized Herbert.

See? You keep defending the ludicrous point that if Lucas approved it, then he drew inspiration from the same sources than the approved writer. If an EU author makes a book about a Blockade Runner crashing into a desert island planet and having all kinds of wacky adventures, it means Lucas drew inspiration from Gilligan's Island for his movies... can you really not see the nonsense in your argument?

Listen, at various times EU authors have said that they go back to "the sources" that they believe (wrongly or rightly, you decide) that influenced Lucas. Their desire is to create the same feel and mythos that Lucas's stories had and thus they have tried to draw upon the same fountain that the creator did.

Disagree with that as much as you like or try to deny the fact that (as many an EU apologist repeats over and over like a religious mantra) that "Lucas approves everything" so therefore it can't be contrary to his vision (unless he changes his mind later of course, but in that case the EU authors will just retconn it in a later book).

Are you admitting that the EU authors ripped off Dune, but that Lucas himself never could have been influenced by it and that I'm wrong to compare the two?

I just see influence in the early scripts and in the movies to a somewhat lesser degree, and then I see the influence continue to grow in the EU.

Rather than saying it sprang forth out of nowhere (in the EU author's minds) as you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm saying it was there all along.

Defending or attacking the EU books has nothing to do with being totally unable to grasp the concept that approving doesn't equal writing them himself. So spare us the persecution complex and gigantic appeals to motive.

I never said that Lucas wrote the EU. Again, this is a strawman argument used to ridicule my observation that Dune influenced Star Wars. To what degree and whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely a matter of opinion.

Oh spare me, you've made ample use of logical fallacies to attack me in this thread so get off your high horse.

The fact that Lucas (through his company) approves all material with the Star Wars name means that it's officially part of his story. I myself speculate that he probably hasn't even read most of it, but that's not the point. The point is, it's STAR WARS. See all the Trek vs Wars arguments where trek apologists are brutally flamed for trying to seperate the EU from the films.

So you say a lot of bullshit, and then when people call you on it you call it a Wall of Ignorance. Gotcha.

No rather I have my atual arguments ignored in favor of a strawman that is then attacked with flaming sticks by your ilk. Thank you very much.

I see, you have discovered my evil plan to make everyone in this forum believe that EU authors are really really monkeys with typewriters. Humanity owes you big time.

Since the principle of sarcasm has brought to bare, I'll call your bluff.

You claim that I think that the EU authors are just writing word for word what Lucas wants them to write.

I don't know about that, all I know is that Lucas, through his company approves and commissions what he wants to be part of Star Wars and that's why they have the "canon policy" and all that stuff that we have fights over every so often on these forums.

The only evidence that Lucas doesn't care what the EU says is the blatant contradictions present in the prequel trilogy thus far.

Of course EU apologists have argued with me time and again claiming that these contradictions can be explained away and thus the EU is still canonically accurate and part of the overall Star Wars timeline (they also interpret statements by various SW authors and authorities in this light).

That's Mike Wong's policy (correct me if I'm wrong), that basically the EU is correct unless contradicted by the films themselves but even then we should always attempt to reconcile both since the EU is still intended to be part of the story.

My opinion is that Lucas can do whatever he wants with his franchise. He's chosen to give credence to the stories written by other authors, regardless of how crappy some of them are, so be it.

As a fan I don't care much for a lot of the EU (save for a few games and one or two comics). I admit Lucas has done some crappy things in his own "canon" (Jar Jar, et al.) but again, that's his story, etc.

In VS. arguments I'd rather use the "pure canon" as the basis, but that's just me. Which is why I find it funny that somebody could accuse me of obsessing over the superiority of the EU... that I'm portrayed as somehow thinking that the EU is in fact the "real story" and the EU authors were just puppets who spit out word for word inspiration directly from the mind of Lucas.

Side note: I haven't even read the new Dune books, the ones that most Dune fans call heretical. The ones written by KJA an infamous EU writer reviled by many. If/when I read those we can talk more about those influences (if they exist, but I'm guessing they do, by virtue of the KJA factor but that's just a wild guess). But I am not basing my argument on that since again, I haven't read House Atredies, Butlerian Jihad, etc.

[Kurgan]

PS: Thanks for dredging up that old link, it just goes to show that the same arguments made then are being made now. I even call Slartibartfast on caricaturing my arguments.

Since we've already basically argued this thing before (and not reached a verdic since), maybe it's not worth our time? And we got off topic (from smoking Jedi), which in whatever way was my fault, I apologize.



PS: Nice quote by Ossus about KJA though, almost forgot about that one!


EDIT:

I see, you have discovered my evil plan to make everyone in this forum believe that EU authors are really really monkeys with typewriters. Humanity owes you big time.

Then again, perhaps this (given some of the material they've produced) isn't such an unfair characterisation of them?