Observed Death Star surface gravity?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-10 03:37pm

Don't forget that the outer decks of the Death Star are concentric spheres; inner decks are stacked north-to-south.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2004-03-10 05:58pm

Firstly, no amount of new knowledge can be assumed to overcome E=mc^2. That's rediculous. You might as well throw the whole of physics out the window and base technical discussions on wild speculation.

The energy for one Alderaan superlaser shot has a known lower-limit: 1E38 J. This translates to 1.11E21 kg. Divided by the volume of 4/3*pi*(80000)^3=2.14E15 m^3 and you get about 518000 kg/m^3. I'm sorry, it looks like my density assumptions were quite low. you see, I had been assuming something in the range of 20000-25000, which is the very high end for solid metals. These are some insane numbers I'm getting. Please check my work.

Yeah...I'll respond to the other stuff as soon as I figure this out.

airBiscuit · Post by **airBiscuit** » 2004-03-10 06:48pm

Alan Bolte wrote:Firstly, no amount of new knowledge can be assumed to overcome E=mc^2. That's rediculous.

um.....hyperspace?

You might as well throw the whole of physics out the window and base technical discussions on wild speculation.

That's just about what science fiction is: projective speculation. It's looking at the possibilities of what could be, and not what we currently observe to be.

The energy for one Alderaan superlaser shot has a known lower-limit: 1E38 J. This translates to 1.11E21 kg. Divided by the volume of 4/3*pi*(80000)^3=2.14E15 m^3 and you get about 518000 kg/m^3. I'm sorry, it looks like my density assumptions were quite low. you see, I had been assuming something in the range of 20000-25000, which is the very high end for solid metals. These are some insane numbers I'm getting. Please check my work.

Well, the Earth weighs 6E24 kg, and that's a solid planet with a solid core. It has a density of 5.5 g/cm^3, so that's 5500kg/m^3, assuming I didn't mess that up. Your density figure is almost two orders of magnitude higher than a typical planet. Not sure I could equate the DS to that.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2004-03-10 08:23pm

airBiscuit wrote:
Alan Bolte wrote:Firstly, no amount of new knowledge can be assumed to overcome E=mc^2. That's rediculous.
um.....hyperspace?

Admittedly, hypermatter cores do use tachyonic matter in their annhialation, but my thoughts on the matter stand. I await someone with more experience to make a judgement. Darth Wong or someone? Please?

You might as well throw the whole of physics out the window and base technical discussions on wild speculation.
That's just about what science fiction is: projective speculation. It's looking at the possibilities of what could be, and not what we currently observe to be.

In the realm of technology, yes, but preferably not of physics. There's simply no way to properly speculate on what advances will be made to physics in the next tens of thousands of years. One major exception, admittedly, is faster-than-light travel, but that's a common exception because of the necessity of traveling to other planets in a timely manner for many plot concepts. You may wish to read Darth Wong's essay How to analze Sci-Fi. Actually, I'm wondering if you have thoroughly read the main site.

The energy for one Alderaan superlaser shot has a known lower-limit: 1E38 J. This translates to 1.11E21 kg. Divided by the volume of 4/3*pi*(80000)^3=2.14E15 m^3 and you get about 518000 kg/m^3. I'm sorry, it looks like my density assumptions were quite low. you see, I had been assuming something in the range of 20000-25000, which is the very high end for solid metals. These are some insane numbers I'm getting. Please check my work.
Well, the Earth weighs 6E24 kg, and that's a solid planet with a solid core. It has a density of 5.5 g/cm^3, so that's 5500kg/m^3, assuming I didn't mess that up. Your density figure is almost two orders of magnitude higher than a typical planet. Not sure I could equate the DS to that.

That would be where I'm confused. But the calcs don't look wrong at the surface, and there's only so much you can do about that.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-11 12:20am

The idea of hypermatter is that the majority of the complex mass is shifted to the imaginary quantity so the vessel really isn't carrying it so to speak; the imaginary mass is converted into normal mass and then annhiliated via E = MC^2.

http://starwars.starshipdatabase.org/

Go under Examinations, and go to Wong's essay.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2004-03-11 11:47am

I had been wondering what complex mass meant. So essentially they use the common fantasy-RPG-style 'magic bag' system?

I guess my conclusion at this point is:
When one considers the plethera of gravitational technologies used in the DS, and the fact that one must actually consider it to have a complex mass, with its normal mass entirely variable, there is simply no way to determine anything about the DS by the apparent surface gravity.

airBiscuit · Post by **airBiscuit** » 2004-03-12 11:49am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The idea of hypermatter is that the majority of the complex mass is shifted to the imaginary quantity so the vessel really isn't carrying it so to speak; the imaginary mass is converted into normal mass and then annhiliated via E = MC^2.

Wong's speculation is quite interesting. I wonder then, if the E=mc^2 equation then needs to be updated to a complex (real and imaginary) form in order to maintain conservation of energy.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-03-13 01:10am

In theory, let's suppose a SW ship has a mass in tons of 5E7+(1E9)(i). Its "real" mass would be 50 million tons. The magnitude of its complex mass would be 1 billion tons. The phase angle would be roughly 87.1 degrees. Now, let's say it can manipulate its complex mass to a phase angle of 90 degrees; the magnitude of its complex mass would be unchanged, but its real mass would become zero. Conversely, let's say it can manipulate its complex mass to a phase angle of 0 degrees: its real mass suddenly skyrockets to roughly 1.001 billion tons.

The magnitude of complex mass/energy is not changed; hypermatter technology simply alters the phase angle of the fixed complex mass-energy, changing more of it or less of it into interactive, useful real mass-energy.

The complex mass-energy of the vessel is always conserved.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2004-03-17 08:08pm

I'm lost...I'll get back to you after I finish Gr 12 Physics at least...