So I have the new Clone Wars stuff

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How do you make a space opera focusing around a single squadron of fighters who are supposed to be powerful enough to bring down a large portion of the remaining Imperial strength realisitc WITHOUT taking the focus off of that specific squadron?

I am missing something here. The series already involves a fair number of capital ships such as Home One already. What is wrong with tying a few more in? Already, the main characters are already the main focus of the story. Having a few extra ships, with nameless faces won't change a thing.

[TK-984]

How do you make a space opera focusing around a single squadron of fighters who are supposed to be powerful enough to bring down a large portion of the remaining Imperial strength realisitc WITHOUT taking the focus off of that specific squadron?

Especially considering said space opera involves a starfighter blowing up a moon sized space station, another starfighter crashing and destroying a 19km fanwank, and several starfighters flying through an elaborate arcade game to destroy another moon sized station.

The X-Wing books were fun fucking reads. Star Wars space combat was always about creating WWII space battles (at least the original trilogy), and those books (as well as the games) definitely expanded upon the idea.

[VT-16]

When you say "expanding", do you mean "creating less and less reason for there to be any capital ships in SW whatsoever"? That's the only EU modus operandi I've ever seen. Take context out of the films and wank-wank-wank starfighters.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How do you make a space opera focusing around a single squadron of fighters who are supposed to be powerful enough to bring down a large portion of the remaining Imperial strength realisitc WITHOUT taking the focus off of that specific squadron?

Especially considering said space opera involves a starfighter blowing up a moon sized space station, another starfighter crashing and destroying a 19km fanwank, and several starfighters flying through an elaborate arcade game to destroy another moon sized station.

The X-Wing books were fun fucking reads. Star Wars space combat was always about creating WWII space battles (at least the original trilogy), and those books (as well as the games) definitely expanded upon the idea.

Oh really? How then do you explain the more capital ship oriented action in Episode 3? WHere's the "starfighter crash into a capital ship and capital ship goes boom"?

[Darth Hoth]

Of course, you may be newly incensed by the following...the Malevolence is attacked by a partial squadron of Y-wings, some of which were destroyed before the battle by flying through a gas cloud filled with weird space creatures. It sounds like an old kid's book my brother had growing up.

Ugh. I thought that kind of blatant ridiculosity was out after the prequels. After all, the only others to have it were Jedi Prince...

[Darth Hoth]

By Stackpole wannabes you mean good authors who follow the direction they're handed from up above? If you want to blame someone for the "awful" Rogue Squadron (some of the best written books in the EU, but whatever), blame the one who hands him down the outline of the story. This hatred for him makes no sense.

Bantam authors typically had a blank checque (EDIT: Special projects like SOTE being the exception); he decided what to write. It is only after Del Rey took over that central control was restored.

Of course, with "Evil" at the helm, that means that we get shit like space monsters and the creature Ender nicknamed "Mini-Hooker". In a way, I long for the wanky Stackpole days...

[TK-984]

How do you make a space opera focusing around a single squadron of fighters who are supposed to be powerful enough to bring down a large portion of the remaining Imperial strength realisitc WITHOUT taking the focus off of that specific squadron?

Especially considering said space opera involves a starfighter blowing up a moon sized space station, another starfighter crashing and destroying a 19km fanwank, and several starfighters flying through an elaborate arcade game to destroy another moon sized station.

The X-Wing books were fun fucking reads. Star Wars space combat was always about creating WWII space battles (at least the original trilogy), and those books (as well as the games) definitely expanded upon the idea.

Oh really? How then do you explain the more capital ship oriented action in Episode 3? WHere's the "starfighter crash into a capital ship and capital ship goes boom"?

I was referring to the Original Trilogy, which were the only Star Wars movies out when Stackpole wrote the original batch of X-Wing: Rogue Squadron books. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of cap ship combat and large fleet engagements, but I feel as if Stackpole, and other "pre-prequel" EU writers get the short end of the stick.

Again, the original trilogy fighter sequences were WWII in space. Capital ships with exposed high bridges, Fighter planes with punch, strafing runs, hell even the physics point to this. It's hard to fault someone who took that tact, it worked in the movies.

(Also I thought Stackpole plots were fine, never cared much for Corran Horn though)

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I was referring to the Original Trilogy, which were the only Star Wars movies out when Stackpole wrote the original batch of X-Wing: Rogue Squadron books. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of cap ship combat and large fleet engagements, but I feel as if Stackpole, and other "pre-prequel" EU writers get the short end of the stick.

Again, the original trilogy fighter sequences were WWII in space. Capital ships with exposed high bridges, Fighter planes with punch, strafing runs, hell even the physics point to this. It's hard to fault someone who took that tact, it worked in the movies.

(Also I thought Stackpole plots were fine, never cared much for Corran Horn though)

While true, the problem is there's a fair bit of material out there show that starfighter runs on capital ships can only happen when the deflector shields are sufficently weakened typically by another capital ship.

And the movies never showed a starfighter taking on a capital ship singlehandedly. Going by one of the guides written by Saxton, the Executor, for example, was under the direct bombardment by the Rebel fleet that reduced the shields at the bridge and the A-wings exploited that moment of vulnerability.

[TK-984]

Yeah sure, I can buy that. It's perfectly reasonable and logical.

Too bad the impetuous of the editing table and splicer created a scene which was essentially:

Code: Select all

SHOT OF: Sensor Domes being blown up by A-Wings
CUT TO: Bridge of Executer, an explosion shakes the camera

               OFFICER
      "Sir, we've lost our bridge deflector shields" (etc)

CUT TO: A-Wing being shot
CUT TO: Bridge of Executer, officer points like a douche.
CUT TO: A-Wing cockpit, the poor fool is screaming
CUT TO: Executer bridge.

                OFFICER
       "It's too late! AUAAUGHGHGG!"

CUT TO: A hilarious composite image of them diving as the A-Wing goes through.
CUT TO: Executer bridge aflame
CUT TO: Executer taking a nose dive.
CUT TO: Shot behind an excited Ackbar on Home One looking @ the Executer.
CUT TO: Reverse shot.
CUT TO: Executer hitting the DSII

CUT TO: George Lucas with an erect penis.
CUT TO: Michael Stackpole with an erect penis and a copy of the game X-Wing.

It's really the inference of that edit that ultimately matters to the minds of EU writers. (They'll either try to give an explanation, like Saxton would do, or buy into the edit, which is what alot of 'em do)

I'm just here saying that ultimately if Stackpole writes a book about X-Wings doing impossible shit, it really isn't far flung: given what we're objectively presented in these wacky moving pictures.

Oh, yeah, wasn't this thread supposed to be about the Clone Wars media project? Shit.

[VT-16]

Bullshit. The scenes in the novelization explicitly telling his warships to hit the Star Destroyers so to give their fighters a chance against them. The film has Ackbar telling all his ships to focus their firepower towards the Executor. Out of that, people somehow think fighters can take on capital ships? Those authors must be grade-A morons.

[Darth Hoth]

Bullshit. The scenes in the novelization explicitly telling his warships to hit the Star Destroyers so to give their fighters a chance against them. The film has Ackbar telling all his ships to focus their firepower towards the Executor. Out of that, people somehow think fighters can take on capital ships? Those authors must be grade-A morons.

[Fanwanker]But . . . But . . . Star Trek could do it! Why wouldn't teh mighty x-Wing fighters of the Rebels Alliance do it? JUst use weakfrequencycoherentremodulatednonadaptableshieldpiercingmagnapulseheavyblastercannon supperior weapons! Torpedoes! Regenerating missiles! Coupled neutrino charge! Shield domes! X-Wing Alliance computer games! Rogue Squadron II for Gamecube! Mandalorian iron![/Fanwanker]

[VT-16]

Speaking of Star Trek, I must say we're in an enviable position. Some of the stuff I've seen of the series so far, would make a Trekkie green with envy and would have led to laughs of derision towards them from the SW fanbase. But all I see now is hostility. Strange.

Well not completely, the people at MF.com (hardly a TFN-level bastion of idiocy and sycophants) are at least liking most of it, so far.

[VT-16]

New footage

I see they explain the LAATs-in-space conundrum by having physical blast doors that shut when there's an emergency, thus sealing up the passenger compartment. (No space-footage here, just telling.)

Other than the retarded "ignite-sabre-backwards" at the end, I like this, it feels more like a war movie than most sections of the Star Wars films. Yes, even the old ones.

Oh yeah, and the first review is up.

[Noble Ire]

That clip is considerably better than the other battle sequence they've previewed; it makes a decent attempt at creating tension, and the combat, as much as is shown, actually looks reasonable. This doesn't reflect positively on the film's internal consistency, but it has restored a bit of my hope for the cartoon. If the reviewer is to be believed, it should be an enjoyable, if canonically troublesome (I still want to see how they lay out the whole Hutt thing), diversion.

[Coyote]

FYI, holding off on updating this until I get the go/no go signal from forum administration. It occurs to me that this could be in violation of board rules.

I believe it is is classified as "satire" (which this certainly seems to be) there is no problem.

[Darth Hoth]

New footage

I see they explain the LAATs-in-space conundrum by having physical blast doors that shut when there's an emergency, thus sealing up the passenger compartment. (No space-footage here, just telling.)

Other than the retarded "ignite-sabre-backwards" at the end, I like this, it feels more like a war movie than most sections of the Star Wars films. Yes, even the old ones.

Oh yeah, and the first review is up.

I am actually pleasantly surprised; there was not really anything retarded in that scene at all, was there, especially by prequel standards.

The reviewer, though, appears to be viewing the film through rose-tinted glasses.

[Coyote]

I see they explain the LAATs-in-space conundrum by having physical blast doors that shut when there's an emergency, thus sealing up the passenger compartment. (No space-footage here, just telling.)

So, they reverse-engineered some bullshit post-rationalization rather than just do the simpler thing and make it an "-A2 model" with pressurization and redesigned engines, eh?

[Ender]

FYI, holding off on updating this until I get the go/no go signal from forum administration. It occurs to me that this could be in violation of board rules.

I believe it is is classified as "satire" (which this certainly seems to be) there is no problem.

Perhaps, but I just want to be sure. I think in the meantime I will start in on the novel.

WRT the show itself and the movie, I'm actually looking forward to it. It looks rather entertaining. The multimedia, however, is insipid.

[VT-16]

Yeah, most SW multimedia is insipid. Apart from the DK technical books, it's all fluff. But this book tops it, at least the other movie visual guides had more text per page than pictures. Entire double-pagers with nothing but the same characters? Rip-off.

[Coyote]

Yeah, from the look of it, it has "filler/padding" written all over it.

I particularly dislike how they have been trying so hard to "kiddie-fy" Star Wars so much. It was a good, serious adult series that was able to entertain well without using vulgarities; but somehow that got twisted into "kid show" and now it's getting to be more of a circus act.

[Covenant]

Yeah, from the look of it, it has "filler/padding" written all over it.

I particularly dislike how they have been trying so hard to "kiddie-fy" Star Wars so much. It was a good, serious adult series that was able to entertain well without using vulgarities; but somehow that got twisted into "kid show" and now it's getting to be more of a circus act.

Adult? I wouldn't go that far. It was well thought-out, it was presented in such a way that there was room to examine the possible depth of the story and the universe and extrapolate plenty of adult sciencey material from it that wasn't explicitly stated in the movies. But I would say that calling it an 'adult' movie is a bit overstating it.

It always was kid accessible, but it was just treated kids like they had half a brain, and we--as kids--got most of it. We didn't need it to be dumbed down to this level for us to understand the movie and the context. It's not like all those star wars toys were sold to grown-up folks. What they've done is made it absolutely braindead at the same time as aiming for more of a 'young teen' audience with the nipply character models, whining angst, and glossed-over realism.

I dunno, I don't think calling it serious and adult really apply too much. Serious sure, but adult just doesn't seem to jive with most people's history with the series. I do agree they've intentionally made it more cartoony to appeal to the youth crowd, but I don't think that moving from an "all ages" mindset to a "13 year old boy" mindset is a strong enough reason to call it adult. Unless I'm just using the term wrong, which is possible. I certainly never felt, as a kid, that the movie was not for me.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yeah, most SW multimedia is insipid. Apart from the DK technical books, it's all fluff. But this book tops it, at least the other movie visual guides had more text per page than pictures. Entire double-pagers with nothing but the same characters? Rip-off.

Even the DK stuff's largely recycling itself nowadays. I skimmed that blueprints thing they've just put out, and the great bulk of it was largely recycled material.

The blasters stuff was pretty good, though. The blasters had some fairly sophisticated bits to them (especially the scopes - motion sensors and all sorts of stuff.)

My favorite was the RT-97c blaster rifle (used by the Sandtroopers in ANH and was originally called the MG-15): They gave its range as 1500 meters, and having a 500 shot capacity from the power pack, 1500 shots from the gas pack. The scopes also link in to the visual displays in the stormtrooper helmet (Same way DC-15s do for Clonetroopers)

[Vympel]

used by the Sandtroopers in ANH and was originally called the MG-15)

I think you mean the gun was made from a German MG-15, right?

Good that they finally got around to naming the damn thing, and giving it some decent stats, though the real / appropriate equivalent of the DC-15 for Clonetroopers is obviously the DLT-19 (converted from German MG34s), what with being quite similar.

[evillejedi]

A quick massing model of the malevolence at different sizes with
reactor size assuming that the ion cannons are not integrally tied to the reactor (but size of ion mounting sphere given for reference if they were)

2000m length (this length would scale almost exactly to the bow of a recusant destroyer and the tower pod and engines off a providence as well as a rough estimate from deck size in the forward super structure)

38e6 m^3 estimated volume (approx similar to MC liberty)
ion globe diameter 237m
maximum main reactor sphere 2.9e6 m^3 (less than 1/3 maximum ISD size and about 1.8x a venator)



3000m length (for comparison)

130e6 m^3 estimated volume (approx similar to ISD)
ion globe diameter 350m
maximum main reactor sphere 9.5e6 m^3 ( roughly on par with ISD)

4000m length (for S&G's)

317e6 m^3 estimated volume (approx similar to ISD)
ion globe diameter 475m
maximum main reactor sphere 23e6 m^3


I really hope it is more in the 3+ km range, but given the utter crap nature of the venstars and a lot of the scaling clues a mid 2km size seems most likely.