Classification of ISDs

[MKSheppard]

They call the Carrack a cruiser, while calling the almost same-sized Lancer a frigate. Care to explain that one?

I see you missed the part in the ISB that says that the Lancers are
anti-starfighter vessels exclusively, and have very poor capital ship
fighting capability.

And lets talk about the US Navy if we're on same-sized ships. The
Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers are the same size and tonnage roughly
as a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, yet they're classed differently.

I guess WEG must be read avidly by the US Navy then.

[MKSheppard]

You're forgetting the differences of scale. Isn't it funny how a Carrack is almost as long as our longest warships, the nuclear aircraft carriers? How about show me a mile-long warship that seems to work in a destroyer role?

Ah, then, a Destroyer that can annihilate a squadron of smaller ships,
carry out a forced invasion of a planet, and act as a carrier for TIEs?

The ISD's POWER puts it in the Light Battleship level.

[MKSheppard]

There are whole star systems whose gross domestic product is less than the cost of a single Imperial Star Destroyer.

That quote also puts it up in the upper ranks of Capital ship-dom, by sheer
PRICE.

[Illuminatus Primus]

[quote="Currald]You have yet to explain "waste reference" to my satisfaction.

ISD was originally according to Mandel blueprints and concept art only 400 something meters and far different in appearance. IIRC in the first couple pages of my edition (the three books in one) the ISD is not described as a Star Destroyer but "cruiser bristling with weaponry." I suppose that they may have been refering to original concepts for the ISD where it was the Imperial stock cruiser or whatnot. Simply a guess.

[Crayz9000]

Ah, then, a Destroyer that can annihilate a squadron of smaller ships, carry out a forced invasion of a planet, and act as a carrier for TIEs?

The ISD's POWER puts it in the Light Battleship level.

Look, Shep, I just said that we're talking about massive differences in scale here. You can start with the Corellian Corvette and work up, or you can start with the Executor and work down. Either way, the Imperator is a midsize warship.

An Imperator also cannot carry out a full invasion of a planet. It can occupy key areas with its stormtroopers, but a full invasion requires a heavier warship such as the Executor, which is capable of deploying garrisons.

Back to the cost issue: Is Tatooine's GDP greater than the cost of an Imperator? How about Coruscant's, or Alderaan's, or any of the other worlds that are at least as populated as Earth? The fact is that WEG did not define their statement; they could have been using Earth's GDP for goodness' sake!

I see you missed the part in the ISB that says that the Lancers are anti-starfighter vessels exclusively, and have very poor capital ship fighting capability.

And lets talk about the US Navy if we're on same-sized ships. The Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers are the same size and tonnage roughly as a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, yet they're classed differently.

The Ticonderoga is a Guided Missile Cruiser. It was modified from a Burke-class destroyer and fills a hybrid defensive/offensive role, depending on what the fleet command wants. The Carrack and Lancer are primarily defensive. The Imperator fills a hybrid role. The Allegiance is primarily offensive.

[Illuminatus Primus]

<snip>

You know what? I don't give a shit about what West End Games says. With their well-documented major screwups, they might as well have been run by Paramount's continuity department.

They call the Carrack a cruiser, while calling the almost same-sized Lancer a frigate. Care to explain that one?

He's right. Their figures were pulled from their ass. Care to explain the 2 km pre-Clone War Invincible-class Dreadnaught, the Dark Empire ships, the Marvel battlecruisers and such, the Darksabre Shockwave, and most importantly...3.2 km circumfrance carriers/troopships in use by a trade franchise in TPM. Those things well out-massed an Imperator and there were a lot of them.

I stick by the destroyer w/ cruiser armaments interpetation for the Imperator, and with the Allegance as an attempt to scale the Imperator up to a cruiser, resulting in a heavy destroyer-crusier hybrid.

I prefer Saxton's interpretation, most self-consistent, and it takes into account canon vs. official. No Imperial ever calls the Executor a "Super Star Destroyer." The Emperor calls it the Commandship.

[Illuminatus Primus]

They call the Carrack a cruiser, while calling the almost same-sized Lancer a frigate. Care to explain that one?

I see you missed the part in the ISB that says that the Lancers are
anti-starfighter vessels exclusively, and have very poor capital ship
fighting capability.

And lets talk about the US Navy if we're on same-sized ships. The
Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers are the same size and tonnage roughly
as a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, yet they're classed differently.

I guess WEG must be read avidly by the US Navy then.

No, I think you're just trying too hard to get a wet navy/Imperial Navy analog here.

[phongn]

I see you missed the part in the ISB that says that the Lancers are anti-starfighter vessels exclusively, and have very poor capital ship fighting capability.

And lets talk about the US Navy if we're on same-sized ships. The Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers are the same size and tonnage roughly as a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, yet they're classed differently.

The Ticonderoga is a Guided Missile Cruiser. It was modified from a Burke-class destroyer and fills a hybrid defensive/offensive role, depending on what the fleet command wants. The Carrack and Lancer are primarily defensive. The Imperator fills a hybrid role. The Allegiance is primarily offensive.

The CG47s were originally classified as DDGs before the fleet-wide reorganization. They were based off of the Spruance ASW DD hull. It's purpose is almost exclusively defensive. Furthermore, it's classification as a cruiser refers to it's C4I capability rather than it's actual firepower, which is very nearly matched by the Arleigh Burke DDG.

The Arleigh Burke is an all-new design, not related to the Spruance family (which includes the Kidd and Ticonderoga).

[Alyeska]

I see you missed the part in the ISB that says that the Lancers are anti-starfighter vessels exclusively, and have very poor capital ship fighting capability.

And lets talk about the US Navy if we're on same-sized ships. The Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers are the same size and tonnage roughly as a Ticonderoga Class Cruiser, yet they're classed differently.

The Ticonderoga is a Guided Missile Cruiser. It was modified from a Burke-class destroyer and fills a hybrid defensive/offensive role, depending on what the fleet command wants. The Carrack and Lancer are primarily defensive. The Imperator fills a hybrid role. The Allegiance is primarily offensive.

The CG47s were originally classified as DDGs before the fleet-wide reorganization. They were based off of the Spruance ASW DD hull. It's purpose is almost exclusively defensive. Furthermore, it's classification as a cruiser refers to it's C4I capability rather than it's actual firepower, which is very nearly matched by the Arleigh Burke DDG.

The Arleigh Burke is an all-new design, not related to the Spruance family (which includes the Kidd and Ticonderoga).

The Burke has fewer missiles. Additionally the new Burke Flight-IIA ships sacrafice all of their Harpoon missiles in order to acomodate the Helicopter pads.

The Tico has great missile capabilities while still retaining the chopper and anti ship missiles.

[Alyeska]

I stick by the destroyer w/ cruiser armaments interpetation for the Imperator, and with the Allegance as an attempt to scale the Imperator up to a cruiser, resulting in a heavy destroyer-crusier hybrid.

That by definition would put the ISD at Light Cruiser level. That leaves out the VSD which is also clearly identified as an assault level ship, not a mere escort. This also puts the Alliegance at Heavy Cruiser status, which is incorrect based on its capabilities and numbers.

[Knife]

<snip>

You know what? I don't give a shit about what West End Games says. With their well-documented major screwups, they might as well have been run by Paramount's continuity department.

They call the Carrack a cruiser, while calling the almost same-sized Lancer a frigate. Care to explain that one?

Sure, but again we have to go back to a sea going navy for comparison. The Carrack is a light cruiser and a Lancer is a frigate right? Ok, lets see..



FF 1037 Bronstein class frigate: length 371 feet, beam 40 feet.
FF 1040 Garcia class frigate: length 514 feet, beam 45 feet.
FF 1052 Knox class frigate: length 438 feet, beam 47 feet.
FF 1098 Glover class frigate: length 414 feet, beam 44 feet.
FFG 7 Oliver Haard Perry length 445 feet, beam 45 feet.
class frigate:

Now compare these frigates to the cruisers made durring the same period.

CGN 25 Bainbridge class cruiser length 565 feet, beam 58 feet.
CGN 35 Truxtun class cruiser length 564 feet, beam 58 feet.
CGN 36 California class cruiser length 596 feet, beam 61 feet.
CGN 38 Virginia class cruiser length 586 feet, beam 63 feet.
CG 7 Ticonderoga class cruiser length 567 feet, beam 55 feet.

I grouped these according to dates as close as possible, the largest size discrepency comes with the first two(Bronstein v Bainbridge) with the Bronstien being 34 percent smaller. In the next set, Garcia v Truxtun, the frigate is only 9 % smaller. The Knox is 26% smaller and the Glover is roughly 29% smaller than its corosponding cruiser. The last two, (Perry class v Ticonderoga class), the Perry class is about 21% smaller than the Ticonderoga. Now if you compare the largest cruiser to the smallest frigate you get a size difference of about 38 percent.

Ok, transfer this over to the Carrack and Lancer question and lets see. The Carrack is what? 350 meters long right? And the Lancer is 250 meters long. The difference in size of the Lancer is about 28% smaller than the Carrack.
Now the above differences between modern or recently modern vessels of the cruiser and frigates run between 20% to 30% with the exception of the Bronstein v Bainbridge comparison and the absolute biggest v the absolute smallest. You can see that the Carrack and Lancer sizes corospond well. The difference between Cruisers, Frigates, and Destroyers on purely the lengths are not that big. If you look at Cruisers v Destroyers from the American Navy, the size differences are even smaller.

Just a couple of quick ones(since I bothered looking them up)

The Arleigh Burke is 10% smaller than the Ticonderoga.
The Spruance is 5% smaller than the California.
The Kidd is 4% smaller than the Virginia.
The Farragut is 4% smaller than the Leahy.

So comparing the sizes between cruisers, frigates and destroyers in the real word seems to indicate that a frigate is 20 to 30% smaller than a cruiser and a destroyer is 5 to 10% smaller than a cruiser.(Again note that when I compared them, I grouped them according when they were commisioned so a comparison is made between two ships built at roughly the same time.)

Now this works on the Carrack cruiser and the Lancer class frigate, lets look at the Imperitor and the Immobilizer. The Immobilizer is suppost to be a specialized ship built on a heavy cruiser hull and you want the Imperitor to be a destroyer. The Immobilizer is 600 meters long compared with the 1600 meters of the Imperitor (destroyer). The size difference is the cruiser is 62 to 63% smaller than the destroyer, a complete flip flop of the other comparisons. If we make the Imperitor a cruiser and the Immobilizer a frigate, the numbers start to make some sence but the difference is still larger than the paradym above.


Personaly, I believe that the Imperitor is a cruiser design and the size difference between it and the Victory is one of realitive age. The differences between the Imperitor and other designes such as the Soveriegn and Griel's ship are alot bigger and can be explained by the differences between a cruiser and a battleship. The Executor's large size in my opinion, makes it more of a command carrier than a battleship. Just the large fighter complement and cargo/troop space alone makes it more of a command carrier in my mind than a battleship. And lets face it, a bunch of cruisers (ISD's) escorting the command carrier that is serving as the flag ship of the fleet is not conclusive evidence that the cruisers are in fact destroyers. Battleships have escorted carriers before and no one will call an BB61 Iowa class a destroyer.

And lastly a thought on the whole rebel slang of stardestroyers thing. Leia Organa was a member of the Imperial Senate and not a back world hick, yet she identified the Executor as a stardestroyer while fleeing form Bespin. Reekien was a "General" and he identified the fleet coming at Hoth as a fleet of stardestroyers. Ackbar, an "Admiral" called the Executor a super stardestroyer durring the battle of Endor. Now maybe you can call them back world hicks, but all these personel were portrayed as highly intellegent beings with a implication of an education. I would expect that these knowledgable people would know the differences between a battleship and a destroyer.

Personaly I think that the "Stardestroyer" tag is either a new designation or possible a brandname from KDY. The Immobilizer looks alot like the Imperitor but is not refered to as a stardestroyer, and it is built by Sienar Fleet Systems. The only time I can think of that a ship is refered to by "stardestroyer" is when one is refering to a KDY ship.

[phongn]

The Burke has fewer missiles. Additionally the new Burke Flight-IIA ships sacrafice all of their Harpoon missiles in order to acomodate the Helicopter pads.

The Tico has great missile capabilities while still retaining the chopper and anti ship missiles.

My main point was that C4I capability, not size or firepower, determined the cruiser classification in modern ships.

[Knife]

EEEEK, anytime you see CG 7 just turn that into CG 47 please.

[Currald]

Here are quotes from the script:

The awesome yellow planet of Tatooine emerges from a total
eclipse, her two moons glowing against the darkness. A tiny
silver spacecraft, a Rebel Blockade Runner firing lasers from
the back of the ship, races through space. It is pursed by a
giant Imperial Stardestroyer. Hundreds of deadly laserbolts
streak from the Imperial Stardestroyer, causing the main solar
fin of the Rebel craft to disintegrate.

...

There are several other references to "stardestroyers." No references to "Star Destroyers," or "destroyers."

...

LUKE: Well, my little friend, you've got something jammed in here real
good. Were you on a cruiser or...

[Now I seem to recall that this was "starcruiser" or "star cruiser" in the actual filmed dialogue.]

...

HAN: (continued) I've outrun Imperial starships, not the local
bulk-cruisers, mind you. I'm talking about the big Corellian ships
now. She's fast enough for you, old man. What's the cargo?

...

GREEDO: Jabba's through with you. He has no time for smugglers who
drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.

...

HAN: It looks like an Imperial cruiser. Our passengers must be hotter
than I thought. Try and hold them off. Angle the deflector shield
while I make the calculations for the jump to light speed.

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- PLANET TATOOINE.

The Millennium Falcon pirateship races away from the yellow
planet, Tatooine. It is followed by two huge Imperial
stardestroyers.

...

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- PLANET TATOOINE.

Imperial cruisers fire at the pirateship.

...

BIGGS: I made some friends at the Academy. (he whispers)...when our
frigate goes to one of the central systems, we're going to jump ship
and join the Alliance...

...

As far as I'm concerned, Han's comment in a canon source takes precedence over Saxton's EU statement.

[Crayz9000]

Now this works on the Carrack cruiser and the Lancer class frigate, lets look at the Imperitor and the Immobilizer. The Immobilizer is suppost to be a specialized ship built on a heavy cruiser hull and you want the Imperitor to be a destroyer. The Immobilizer is 600 meters long compared with the 1600 meters of the Imperitor (destroyer). The size difference is the cruiser is 62 to 63% smaller than the destroyer, a complete flip flop of the other comparisons. If we make the Imperitor a cruiser and the Immobilizer a frigate, the numbers start to make some sence but the difference is still larger than the paradym above.

No, no, you're missing the point. Completely scrapping the existing WEG class definitions and going by by Saxton's class definitions, it means that the Immobilizer, a picket ship, is 63% smaller than the Imperator, a destroyer.

It makes sense only if you don't try to hodgepodge WEG definitions with Saxton's definitions.

[Knife]

Now this works on the Carrack cruiser and the Lancer class frigate, lets look at the Imperitor and the Immobilizer. The Immobilizer is suppost to be a specialized ship built on a heavy cruiser hull and you want the Imperitor to be a destroyer. The Immobilizer is 600 meters long compared with the 1600 meters of the Imperitor (destroyer). The size difference is the cruiser is 62 to 63% smaller than the destroyer, a complete flip flop of the other comparisons. If we make the Imperitor a cruiser and the Immobilizer a frigate, the numbers start to make some sence but the difference is still larger than the paradym above.

No, no, you're missing the point. Completely scrapping the existing WEG class definitions and going by by Saxton's class definitions, it means that the Immobilizer, a picket ship, is 63% smaller than the Imperator, a destroyer.

It makes sense only if you don't try to hodgepodge WEG definitions with Saxton's definitions.

I wasn't going with WEG stats, unless the 600 meters for the Immobilizer is from WEG exclussively. I got the 600 figure from the EGVV. In its description, the Immobilizer is built off of a heavy cruiser hull.

[Crayz9000]

As far as I'm concerned, Han's comment in a canon source takes precedence over Saxton's EU statement.

"Stardestroyer" was a term that Lucas only used in the first four drafts of Star Wars. All later movies have described them as "Star Destroyers". Also, no later movies refer to them as cruisers; the only references to cruisers are those of the Mon Calamari, who have a slightly different idea of class definitions.

Code: Select all

EXTERIOR: GALAXY -- PLANET HOTH

           A Star Destroyer moves through space, releasing Imperial probe
        robots from its underside.

HAN: (over comlink) There isn't enough life on this ice cube to fill a
space cruiser. The sensors are placed. I'm going back.

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- IMPERIAL FLEET

           Darth Vader's Star Destroyer, larger and more awesome than
        the five Imperial Star Destroyers that surround it, sits in
        the vastness of space. The six huge ships are surrounded by a
        convoy of smaller spacecraft. TIE fighters dart to and fro.

HOBBIE: Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?

EXTERIOR: ASTEROID FIELD -- VADER'S STAR DESTROYER

           Vader's Imperial Star Destroyer moves against the vast sea
        of stars away from the rest of the fleet.

SECOND CONTROLLER: Sir, we have a priority signal from the Star
Destroyer Avenger.

INTERIOR: VADER'S STAR DESTROYER -- BRIDGE

           Vader stands on the bridge, watching as the Millennium
        Falcon is chased by the TIE fighters. As his Destroyer draws
        nearer, Vader's breathing gets slightly faster.

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- REBEL CRUISER

           The Millennium Falcon is attached to a huge Rebel cruiser
        by a docking tube. Rebel fighters move about the giant
        cruiser, and a Rebel transport ship hovers near the fleet.

Now, Return of the Jedi:

Code: Select all

     A Super Star Destroyer and several ships of the Imperial Fleet
     rest in space above the half-completed Death Star and its green
     neighbor, Endor. Four squads of TIE fighters escort an Imperial
     shuttle toward the Death Star.

     The vast Rebel Fleet stretches as far as the eye can see.
     Overhead a dozen small Corellian battleships fly in formation.
     Fighters and battlecruisers surround the largest of the Rebel
     Star Cruisers, the HEADQUARTERS FRIGATE.

94   INT REBEL STAR CRUISER - BRIDGE                                94

     From the bridge of the Rebel Headquarters Frigate, Admiral Ackbar
     watches the fighters massing outside his viewscreen.

Home One is classed as a frigate... oops.

Code: Select all

82   EXT SPACE - REBEL FLEET                                        82

     We are treated to an awesome sight: first the Millennium Falcon,
     then Ackbar's Star Cruiser, then, in large segments, the huge
     fleet ROARS INTO HYPERSPACE. And disappears.

                              ACKBAR
               You can see here the Death Star orbiting the
               forest Moon of Endor. Although the weapon
               systems on this Death Star are not yet
               operational, the Death Star does have a
               strong defense mechanism. It is protected by
               an energy shield, which is generated from the
               nearby forest Moon of Endor. The shield must
               be deactivated if any attack is to be
               attempted. Once the shield is down, our
               cruisers will create a perimeter, while the
               fighters fly into the superstructure and
               attempt to knock out the main reactor.

                              LANDO
               Only the fighters are attacking.  I wonder
               what those Star Destroyers are waiting for.


109  INT MILLENNIUM FALCON - COCKPIT                               109

     The ship is buffeted by the tremendous explosion of the Rebel
     cruiser. Lando and his copilot are stunned by the sight of the
     Death Star firepower.

                              WEDGE

               Cut to the left! I'll take the leader!
               They're heading for the medical frigate.

     The giant Imperial Star Destroyer waits silently some distance
     from the battle. The Emperor's huge Super Star Destroyer rests in
     the middle of the fleet.

     The two armadas, like their sea-bound ancestors, blast away at
     each other in individual point-blank confrontations. A Star
     Destroyer explodes. The Rebel victor limps away, its back half
     alive with a series of minor explosions. The Rebel cruiser
     manages to move in next to a second Star Destroyer before it
     explodes completely, taking the Imperial Star Destroyer with it.
     The Falcon and several fighters attack one of the larger Imperial
     ships.

     Nien Nunb agrees. The battle between the Rebel and Imperial fleet
     rages on. Several cruisers fire at the giant Super Star
     Destroyer.

                              ACKBAR
               We've got to give those fighters more time.
               Concentrate all fire on that Super Star
               Destroyer.

Here is the most telling example.

Code: Select all

     The Rebel pilot screams as his ship hits the Star Destroyer,
     causing a huge explosion. The giant battle ship loses control,
     crashes into the Death Star, and explodes.

[Knife]

Ok, so now you think that an ISD is a cruiser not a destroyer right? If not then the script says that Vadars "destroyer" is 5 times larger than the other "destroyers".

The script also flip flops between calling "Home One" a cruiser and a frigate. Again, the term Star Destroyer or Stardestroyer seems to be either a new designation or a brand name for a KDY product.

[Crayz9000]

Ok, so now you think that an ISD is a cruiser not a destroyer right? If not then the script says that Vadars "destroyer" is 5 times larger than the other "destroyers".

At least we know where the five-mile fallacy came from. Anyway, it doesn't say that it's five TIMES the size of an Imperator; it says that it's LARGER than five Imperators.

The script also flip flops between calling "Home One" a cruiser and a frigate. Again, the term Star Destroyer or Stardestroyer seems to be either a new designation or a brand name for a KDY product.

So it would seem. But anyway, going strictly by the way the ships were USED in the movies, we get the idea that the Blockade Runner is a corvette, the average Star Destroyer is between a destroyer and a cruiser and that "Darth Vader's Star Destroyer" is a battleship.

Throw in the Expanded Universe and things get messy; suddenly, you have ships built on heavy cruiser hulls that function as picket ships, cruisers or destroyers that people think of as battleships, and starfighters that can easily destroy heavy warships.

[Knife]

I share your frustration with the inclusion of the EU, but they have to be quantified some how witch I think is the point of this tread.

I guess I get itchy about a Star Destroyer being a destroyer the same way other's get touchy with a Turbo Laser being a Laser. IMHO, the evidence does not support it in either size, firepower, general use, ect.....

[Currald]

Gah! This is an insoluable mess!

[Illuminatus Primus]

Here are quotes from the script:

The awesome yellow planet of Tatooine emerges from a total
eclipse, her two moons glowing against the darkness. A tiny
silver spacecraft, a Rebel Blockade Runner firing lasers from
the back of the ship, races through space. It is pursed by a
giant Imperial Stardestroyer. Hundreds of deadly laserbolts
streak from the Imperial Stardestroyer, causing the main solar
fin of the Rebel craft to disintegrate.

...

There are several other references to "stardestroyers." No references to "Star Destroyers," or "destroyers."

...

LUKE: Well, my little friend, you've got something jammed in here real
good. Were you on a cruiser or...

[Now I seem to recall that this was "starcruiser" or "star cruiser" in the actual filmed dialogue.]

...

HAN: (continued) I've outrun Imperial starships, not the local
bulk-cruisers, mind you. I'm talking about the big Corellian ships
now. She's fast enough for you, old man. What's the cargo?

...

GREEDO: Jabba's through with you. He has no time for smugglers who
drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser.

...

HAN: It looks like an Imperial cruiser. Our passengers must be hotter
than I thought. Try and hold them off. Angle the deflector shield
while I make the calculations for the jump to light speed.

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- PLANET TATOOINE.

The Millennium Falcon pirateship races away from the yellow
planet, Tatooine. It is followed by two huge Imperial
stardestroyers.

...

EXTERIOR: SPACE -- PLANET TATOOINE.

Imperial cruisers fire at the pirateship.

...

BIGGS: I made some friends at the Academy. (he whispers)...when our
frigate goes to one of the central systems, we're going to jump ship
and join the Alliance...

...

As far as I'm concerned, Han's comment in a canon source takes precedence over Saxton's EU statement.

I said the novel, but it doesn't make that much of a difference to me. I still prefer Saxton's views. And Biggs wasn't stationed on a frigate anyway, but an Imperial transport called Grand Ecliptic.

[Currald]

You prefer Saxton's views to Lucas's?!? Actually, I guess I can sort of see that...

[Knife]

You prefer Saxton's views to Lucas's?!? Actually, I guess I can sort of see that...

The problems lay in that Lucas used "cruiser" in the original term instead of the military term. He refered to the Blockaderunner, it's decendent in the Republic, an ISD, and the Nebulon B as cruisers in one passage or another. To differentiate between the "slang" term cruiser and the military term cruiser is hard in some but not all of the passages. On the other hand, Mr Saxton makes great strides in interlocking the SW universe together, but is not infalable.

[Currald]

I guess I question why Saxton clings to the word destroyer, while ignoring the word cruiser. If Lucas (or whomever wrote the Episode in question) had no concept of proper naval nomenclature, why pay any attention whatsoever to the script cues for that purpose?