Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Adam Reynolds]

In KOTOR, it seems to be intended that shields either work against energy weapons or kinetic attacks. Shields do after all stop lightsabers as easily as blaster bolts and disruptor bolts penetrate just as easily as swords. It is a question of using an attack that the shield is not optimized for, similarly to the Death Star's ray shielded shaft that required proton torpedoes.

Which then begs the question of why kinetic ranged weapons aren't making a comeback rather than swords. With the case of disruptor weapons it presumably is due to the significantly higher cost, but that then begs the question of why they don't just use slugthrowers(which would also obviously have benefits against Jedi and Sith). It is obvious that they just wanted swords to allow characters to level up for when they finally get lightsabers. And to allow duels without everyone having lightsabers.

[Galvatron]

So are we all pretty much in agreement that the Old Republic was more or less galaxy-spanning at its founding or no? Did we need the EU and Kevin J. Anderson to make it official back in the day?

[Adam Reynolds]

So are we all pretty much in agreement that the Old Republic was more or less galaxy-spanning at its founding or no? Did we need the EU and Kevin J. Anderson to make it official back in the day?

I would say it always spanned the galaxy but that it didn't necessarily have control over all of it. Even in the PT we see this fact given the lack of a Republic presence on Tatooine.

[Galvatron]

I'm sure there were vast regions of unexplored "internal wilderness" in the galaxy, as Curtis Saxton once put it. I seem to recall that he disapproved of the old EU's depiction of the Unknown Regions.

FWIW

[The Romulan Republic]

The list of worlds in the Republic/Empire was tens of millions back in the day, as I recall. Not sure what it is now, with the EU largely discarded, but Attack of the Clones gives us tens of thousands, at least. Yet a galaxy like our own has billions of systems. So their were probably a lot of systems that simply were empty or largely ignored.

[Galvatron]

There were a lot of "uncharted settlements" as of TESB as well. I think some people just have a hard time imagining the Republic spanning the entire galaxy while also remaining largely unexplored over the millennia.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't know about "unexplored". That Jedi woman in Attack of the Clones claimed that if it wasn't in the Jedi archives, it didn't exist or something like that. Though that could just be arrogant boasting, of course.

But their might have been a lot of systems that were largely empty or otherwise unimportant enough that they did not merit entry into the Republic/Empire in the eyes of officials. So, cursory examination and then largely ignored.

Edit: Of course, that contradicts the uncharted settlements from Empire Strikes Back. Though I like to think that a lot of those were set up during the chaos of the Clone Wars and the Empire's rise. Many might have been outlaws (the scene in question mentions smugglers, as I recall), or refugees fleeing from the separatists, Republic, or Empire.

[Lord Revan]

I don't know about "unexplored". That Jedi woman in Attack of the Clones claimed that if it wasn't in the Jedi archives, it didn't exist or something like that. Though that could just be arrogant boasting, of course.

But their might have been a lot of systems that were largely empty or otherwise unimportant enough that they did not merit entry into the Republic/Empire in the eyes of officials. So, cursory examination and then largely ignored.

Edit: Of course, that contradicts the uncharted settlements from Empire Strikes Back. Though I like to think that a lot of those were set up during the chaos of the Clone Wars and the Empire's rise. Many might have been outlaws (the scene in question mentions smugglers, as I recall), or refugees fleeing from the separatists, Republic, or Empire.

I always thought after AOTC that the "Unexplored Regions" would be better called "poorly explored regions", so that the Republic had done basic possibly long ranged charting of the systems but those stars were deemed too insignifigant for a detailed exploration and charting.

So you'd have the basic understanding of where stars and possibly planets are but not which ones are inhabited and where the settlements are so the items "exists" in the records but it's not a very detailed entry.

Also smugglers, pirates and other outlaws would probably not announce their settlements to the imperial authorities, you could also have people who have fled the poverty of the Outerrim to these areas trying to start a new life. Then we have from the series Rebels that Mandolorians had some bases even they had forgotten to exist, so that could easily give us a massive number of "Uncharted Settlements".

[Gandalf]

Isn't that all easily reconciled as the Republic/Empire being analogous to a frontier nation? While the Republic/Empire may claim the whole galaxy as their Manifest Destiny or whatever, their actual presence isn't particularly solid except when they want something.

[Grumman]

Isn't that all easily reconciled as the Republic/Empire being analogous to a frontier nation? While the Republic/Empire may claim the whole galaxy as their Manifest Destiny or whatever, their actual presence isn't particularly solid except when they want something.

I think you're reading too much into it. Having pockets of civilisation surrounded by wilderness doesn't say anything about the character of an interplanetary civilisation, it's just a natural consequence of space being very, very big relative to the habitable bits.

[Vympel]

This new board software is pretty snazzy. Gonna take a while to get used ot though.

Anyway, Hot Toys pics of all the soldiers of the First Order:

Flametroopers:



TIE pilot:



Snowtroopers:



Stormtroopers, including Heavy Gunner (equipped with 'Megablaster')



And just for shits and giggles, an ANH Spacetrooper:

[Elheru Aran]

It strikes me that the galaxy is... well... a really big place. There's a lot of alien species in Star Wars, but there can't be one for each star system. Even if there was one species for only a tenth of the star systems, that's still a lot. And of course humans would prefer to settle where the local environment is fairly hospitable to them, so that cuts down on the systems available for colonization. I don't find it particularly surprising that there would be large chunks of the galaxy which simply didn't have much population, or if they were populated, mainly had various local pre-hyperspace alien species.

[Galvatron]

Died at "we will fix what you started."

[Anacronian]

To be honest I do prefer stormtroopers with all black weapons - those white patches is gonna take some time to get used to.

[Galvatron]

I find the black and white TIE fighters harder to get used to. The "solar panels" look like they're made of rice paper.

[Joun_Lord]

Jesus ass fucking Christ the George Lucas hate was strong in that Honest Trailer. I can understand the Prequel from old fogies who think anything new is bad same as I can understand the OT hate from youngsters who think anything old is bad, but the level of vitriol by "fans" of Star Wars towards it creator is mindboggling. They don't just seem to dislike some of the shit he did, they seem to hate him, hate everything he touched beyond the OT and like to make excuses that they only reason they were good was his wife and people like Kasdan. They think other people know Star Wars better then the guy who created, some demented motherfuckers even try to say he didn't create it.

You would think from the response of some people Lucas really did go in their house and erase their old SW tapes and rape them considering how angry some people are at him and any changes he made.

Just another reason why Star Wars fans really piss me off sometimes. I mean even Trekkies don't hold hate for Roddenberry despite him doing some pretty shitty things both on and off set.

[Elheru Aran]

I dunno, there are a few (the more rational ones generally) who don't care for the cack-handed treatment Roddenberry gave the first season of TNG. But I think he gets more of a pass than Lucas because he was forced by contract to be largely more hands-off after he got things started, which is why you mostly see him credited as 'Executive Producer' or some such. Lucas on the other hand was hands-on through most all of Star Wars, OT and PT both.

[Adam Reynolds]

I dunno, there are a few (the more rational ones generally) who don't care for the cack-handed treatment Roddenberry gave the first season of TNG. But I think he gets more of a pass than Lucas because he was forced by contract to be largely more hands-off after he got things started, which is why you mostly see him credited as 'Executive Producer' or some such. Lucas on the other hand was hands-on through most all of Star Wars, OT and PT both.

I think this is the fundamental problem. Correct or not, people have the image of Lucas as responsible for every single change in the films. Even those that likely weren't due to him(Han shooting first comes to mind as a ratings issue rather than a choice).

As for Star Trek, part of why Roddenberry gets a pass is due to the worthless material that came after he left thanks to the hacks that took over the franchise. If it had ended with TNG, then there might be similar backlash against him as there was to Lucas.

And if the sequel trilogy tanks, I wonder if it would lead to people having more respect for the prequels.

CinemaSins also did a video on the new trailer:

Though his theory would completely ruin the OT.

[Elheru Aran]

I really think respect will be an individual thing. If the sequel tanks, some people will end up hating both the ST and PT, and holding up the OT as the true apotheosis of Star Wars. But opinions are going to be all over the place.

Roddenberry did have a very large influence on his universe, but that influence was mostly TOS and early TNG; after his death the Trek universe moved away from his ethos rather markedly. Also, it's a much bigger universe (in a sense) than Star Wars, in that there are hundreds of hours of episodes and films associated with it, so it's far easier to pick and choose the stuff you like-- post first or second season TNG, it's a pretty safe bet it won't have that much Roddenberry influence. There's only (so far) six Star Wars movies, and as has been discussed here, the Expanded Universe is a fairly niche portion of SF fandom, which is itself a niche of the overall population that has watched the Star Wars movies. There's less material to pick and choose from, so blame gets more concentrated upon Lucas.

[Joun_Lord]

I dunno, there are a few (the more rational ones generally) who don't care for the cack-handed treatment Roddenberry gave the first season of TNG. But I think he gets more of a pass than Lucas because he was forced by contract to be largely more hands-off after he got things started, which is why you mostly see him credited as 'Executive Producer' or some such. Lucas on the other hand was hands-on through most all of Star Wars, OT and PT both.

Thats true but its still people complaining about his work. People will say how TOS has some pretty dumb moments even removed from its time period, early TNG was boring and had no real conflict or drama, how he hamstringed TNG by saying the characters couldn't disagree, how his vision of the future was insulting towards modern day people, and how Wesley was a terrible Gary Stu. Other things like him dicking over a composer and taking enough pills and booze to kill an elephant.

He wasn't a bad person but he certainly shat out some stinkers and certainly had some controversy in his personal life. Lucas is much the same (though to my knowledge he wasn't popping quaaludes and the worse controversy in his personal life I can think of is racists whining he married a black woman) yet Gene is still hailed a visionary and Lucas as a hack.

Its like the difference between the views of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, the former is seen as a hero and a visionary (again with that word) while the latter is seen as a evil greedy person who just stole ideas. Though for those two the differences are even greater then Gene and Lucas.

I can understand Lucas wanting to sell his work so cheaply considering the headache the fans of it must have caused him.

[Galvatron]

George had his chance. He had unprecedented resources and control over Star Wars and could have relinquished the writing and directing to others, but he didn't. Sure, he hired some help, but gone were the days of anyone seriously disagreeing with his vision and insisting on giving us a better product.

It got even worse after TPM came out and turned what was supposed to be his triumphant return to the director's chair into the laughingstock of the industry. He exposed himself for the hack that he is, but his ego wouldn't allow him to step aside and let better filmmakers right the ship in Episodes 2 and 3. He tightened his grip and the fanbase slipped right through his fingers.

I'll grant you that Lucas was a gifted filmmaker in his youth, but the last good movie he directed came out in 1977.

[ray245]

George had his chance. He had unprecedented resources and control over Star Wars and could have relinquished the writing and directing to others, but he didn't. Sure, he hired some help, but gone were the days of anyone seriously disagreeing with his vision and insisting on giving us a better product.

It got even worse after TPM came out and turned what was supposed to be his triumphant return to the director's chair into the laughingstock of the industry. He exposed himself for the hack that he is, but his ego wouldn't allow him to step aside and let better filmmakers right the ship in Episodes 2 and 3. He tightened his grip and the fanbase slipped right through his fingers.

I'll grant you that Lucas was a gifted filmmaker in his youth, but the last good movie he directed came out in 1977.

Oh god, not this again. George wanted others to direct for him, but his friends convinced him to helm all 3 movies. Has there been anyone seriously disagreeing with his vision in the OT?

And the notion of him being a laughing stock really just goes to show your prejudice at work here. By industry standards, all three prequels were massive financial success. His movies were even better received by the critics than the new Transformers movies. It's funny how you are twisting facts because you personally hated the prequels.

[Galvatron]

If you've read anything about the making of ANH and TESB, you'd know that there were PLENTY of people disagreeing with George back then. That creative tension resulted in a better product. George even admitted that TESB was better than he wanted it to be.

[ray245]

If you've read anything about the making of ANH and TESB, you'd know that there were PLENTY of people disagreeing with George back then. That creative tension resulted in a better product. George even admitted that TESB was better than he wanted it to be.

Yes, but he ultimately made the decision in the end. I think you placed for too much emphasis on the idea that George didn't make any major important contribution to ANH and ESB himself.

Basically your entire arguments relies on others agreeing with you that the prequels suck. If they don't, then your arguments don't have much weight.

[Galvatron]

If you've read anything about the making of ANH and TESB, you'd know that there were PLENTY of people disagreeing with George back then. That creative tension resulted in a better product. George even admitted that TESB was better than he wanted it to be.

Yes, but he ultimately made the decision in the end. I think you placed for too much emphasis on the idea that George didn't make any major important contribution to ANH and ESB himself.

I admit that ANH would not have existed without George. That's why I said it's the last good movie he directed. Props to Alan Ladd Jr. as well for believing in him.

TESB might have been just fine without him, but I think Kershner might have given us a slower movie. George wanted it to be faster paced and what we got was a compromise between the two. Hence, the creative tension resulting in a better product.

Basically your entire arguments relies on others agreeing with you that the prequels suck. If they don't, then your arguments don't have much weight.

I freely admit that I'm guilty of intense prequel hatred. What amuses me is that you seem to think I'm something of a rarity.