Solo release thread (spoilers)

[PhoenixKnig]

Thoughts on the new ships and walkers

[Rogue 9]

Thoughts on the new ships and walkers

As far as I know we have no idea what that double-hulled TIE that led the squadron chasing them into the Maw was supposed to be. That's what I'm most interested in, of the new things we saw.

[PhoenixKnig]

TIE Brute

[PhoenixKnig]

https://youtu.be/YCznAyRy288

[houser2112]

TIE Brute

Please tell me you're joking.

[PhoenixKnig]

TIE Brute

Please tell me you're joking.

TIE/rb is the official name but it's been officially known unofficially as the TIE Brute

[PhoenixKnig]

TIE Brute

Please tell me you're joking.

TIE/rb is the official name but it's been officially known unofficially as the TIE Brute

The name is not too bad

[Civil War Man]

So I finally got around to seeing Solo. I went in not expecting much, and the movie met my expectations. It was an okay sci-fi heist plot, but didn't add anything to our understanding of Han Solo as a character. I'd describe it as the visual equivalent of eating meringue. Consuming it was enjoyable enough, but it wasn't particularly satisfying afterwards because it didn't really contain anything of substance.

I feel like this movie should have come out in 2014, before the release of TFA. At the very least it would have addressed one of the issues with TLJ, where casual fans who don't delve deeply into the old EU were left wondering about the significance of the dice that the movie was so fixated upon.

Alternatively, I preferred a different idea I saw where instead of Solo, the movie is Calrissian, and focused on Lando's transition from scoundrel to legitimate businessman, where Han plays a supporting role, or even just shows up as a cameo with the Sabacc game where Lando loses the Falcon.

[PhoenixKnig]

I'll see that

[FaxModem1]

Just saw it, rather enjoyed it. I'll have to reflect on it a bit. Aside from being the shitholes of the galaxy, why was the lighting dingy in almost every single scene? Heck, even in Dreyden Vos's flying yacht, the lighting could have been improved. I miss the CGI environments of the Prequels a bit, they were colorful. But, if it's an intentional theme of being part of the bottom of the barrel people in the galaxy like Han, I'm fine with it a bit.

I do wish we got to see a bit more of Solo as an Imperial. A scene of why he was kicked out of flight school, aside from a vague comment on his inability to follow orders, but that's neither here nor there.

Also, it's interesting to note that unlike our world, any vagrant on the street can just walk up to an Imperial Military Recruiting station and get into their Flight school, lickity split. No prior college needed, no family connections, no introduction letter, or knowing of any highly qualified politicians. Seems a bit too egalitarian for a system like the Empire. This means that if any bum can keep their head down long enough, Joe Q Public could become an officer if they survive long enough. Of course, Han also realistically washes out and becomes a basic army trooper, designed to carry a gun and die.

Sidenote: I want Han Solo's jacket. I just want it so badly. I know it's sacrilege, but I prefer it to the black vest he wears in the OT.

The lightsaber duel being short was the best part: it ended sooner. Their faces move too much. The voice acting is terrible, along with the dialogue. Why did Maul let them talk for so long? He should have attacked while they were talking, to get the drop on an old man. Why did the droid have a rocket engine? How did a lightsaber put out a fire? And for God's sake, why do they spend so much time staring at each other? It's worse than Luke at the end of TFA.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

You need to watch more Kirosawa movies.

link



Note the drawn out tension, how the more peaceful man is trying to talk him out a fight, the resignation, and the aggressive samurai's surprise when he is killed, not knowing that he was talking himself into being killed. Like it's American cousin the Western, Japanese Samurai movies have a building of tension as the two opponents square off against each other before the brutally short fight.

That's what's going on in that fight. Maul still thinks that he is an aspiring Sith Lord, destined to conquer the galaxy someday, not realizing he has peaked long ago and is just a shell of what he once was. Obi Wan is trying to spare Maul, until Maul threatens others. Then Obi Wan has no choice but to strike Maul down, and give him some comfort as he dies. Obi Wan has become a wise master, while Maul hasn't grown from what he was back in The Phantom Menace, and Obi Wan knows it.

Unfortunately for Maul, he presses the issue.

[Esquire]

Just saw the other day, quite enjoyed it. I absolutely loved the ISD construction shots on Corellia, and was willing to overlook the weirdness around the Maw. Didn't get the apparent hubbub about the droid - the vibe I got was 'this droid is amusingly nuts,' but maybe I'm just not #woke enough.

[tezunegari]

Also, it's interesting to note that unlike our world, any vagrant on the street can just walk up to an Imperial Military Recruiting station and get into their Flight school, lickity split. No prior college needed, no family connections, no introduction letter, or knowing of any highly qualified politicians. Seems a bit too egalitarian for a system like the Empire. This means that if any bum can keep their head down long enough, Joe Q Public could become an officer if they survive long enough. Of course, Han also realistically washes out and becomes a basic army trooper, designed to carry a gun and die.

Maybe the Imperial Navy works on similar ideology like the French Foreign Legion?
They don't care who you were, or what you did as long as you are loyal to the Empire.

At least that's my personal head-canon.
And Han might have applied for Pilot Training, but overall the Imperial Navy should send any applicant through basic training that tests them for their aptitude as well.
Considering how different worlds can be from a backwater planet like Tatooine to a sprawling Ecumenopolis like Coruscant the applicants vary in education but talent can come from anywhere. It just needs the correct training.

So all applicants go through Basic Training (and possibly basic schooling) and are selected for the branch they are best suited for.
Han's stated wish to become a pilot is only a note in the file and focuses his testing on pilot ability.

Essentially a backwater planet applicant might be unable to spell his own name, but his physique, reaction time and spatial awareness are off the charts good; he gets additional education in reading/writing and math, and if he is successful there he's going into Pilot training.

[NecronLord]

Also, it's interesting to note that unlike our world, any vagrant on the street can just walk up to an Imperial Military Recruiting station and get into their Flight school, lickity split. No prior college needed, no family connections, no introduction letter, or knowing of any highly qualified politicians. Seems a bit too egalitarian for a system like the Empire. This means that if any bum can keep their head down long enough, Joe Q Public could become an officer if they survive long enough. Of course, Han also realistically washes out and becomes a basic army trooper, designed to carry a gun and die.

TIE fighters are fucking cheap. As much as it will distress some of us here to hear that old canard that's always been the authorial intent; it's not like trusting a pilot with a multi-million dollar modern plane.

Of course, we knew this from the original film where Luke wants to go to the Imperial Academy and no one talks of cost or education.

[fractalsponge1]

TIE fighters are fucking cheap. As much as it will distress some of us here to hear that old canard that's always been the authorial intent; it's not like trusting a pilot with a multi-million dollar modern plane.

Of course, we knew this from the original film where Luke wants to go to the Imperial Academy and no one talks of cost or education.

I know I'm a little late here, but it's not the absolute cost of the plane but how many there are. When you have huge fleets you'll put anyone that passes the basic training into combat on expensive hardware if people are more limited than production. We use highly trained officer pilots now because there are so few planes we can be highly selective. In WWII there were plenty of non commissioned fighter pilots and such - as long as you passed the aptitude tests, get into your Mig-3 or whatever that rolled unpainted off the line and go. Planes were still relatively expensive, but it didn't matter.

Fighters in SW fight attritional battles and are all individually expendable, and Rebel pilots and fighters are equally expendable, it's just that the Rebellion can afford the loss a lot less. They gave a replacement fighter to some random farmboy, after all, presumably because he could actually fly. The idea enshrined in EU that fighters are somehow super valuable up to the level of capital ships was always ridiculous on its face.

[fractalsponge1]

Oh I guess I forgot to add for the purposes of the thread - I just saw Solo and I liked it a lot. Not as good as Rogue One but miles better than the sequels. But maybe it's just that the OT always looked better to me.

[The Romulan Republic]

I saw the film last night, and OT nostalgia aside, I actually consider it probably the weakest film of the Disney Star Wars era.

First off, I have to say that I was really uncomfortable with the droid slavery stuff. If you draw attention to the fact that slavery is a major part of your setting, and you have a main character who is part of an enslaved race and seeking their freedom, don't play it for fucking laughs, especially not in an "The silly activist wants their freedom, isn't that goofy" way.

And then at the end they download the droid's brain into the Falcon (I wonder how we would feel about having our consciousness transplanted into a ship after death) to make their escape, and then Han goes and wins the Falcon (sapient mind and all) off of Lando in a bet. Classy.

Beyond that, it was fairly mediocre and at times predictable/cliche, although at least it had a clear and coherent plot without gaping holes, which is more than a lot of films can manage. The highlights were Woody Harrelson and the guy playing Han, Chewbacca, seeing Corellia on-screen, and the Kessel Run (complete with reprising the asteroid chase scene music from ESB). Liked the Maul cameo, too. I also got a real Firefly vibe from some scenes, especially the train robbery, the main villain, and the desert planet they were on for the climax.

On a separate note, I also got the sense midway through the film that they were implying Han's girlfriend was a sex slave, but then chickened out and backed away from outright stating it or exploring the ramifications of that.

I will say that the guy who played Han really did a creditable job filling some very big shoes. I hope his career doesn't suffer from being associated with a Star Wars film that underperformed. No one else could be Harrison Ford, but he came as close as we're likely to get. There were times I could almost see A New Hope Han in his performance.

As far as the film underperforming, and Disney's reaction to it:

I don't think, as I initially feared (and as some people doubtless hoped) that it is likely to be due to a backlash against the ST/TLJ, at least not primarily. This film felt fairly weak to me, and moreover, it felt aimed at a narrower audience. This was very much a film for Star Wars fans, and particularly OT fans, banking heavily on shout-outs and nostalgia (it also had a white male protagonist, for the ST bashers who are motivated by hostility towards diverse casting/"SJWs"). In other words, I suspect that this film would be more likely to appeal to precisely those groups of people most off-put by TLJ. Maybe some of them simply never gave it a chance. But I don't think its lackluster performance can be read simply as a backlash to the other recent films.

However, it is not designed to appeal to a wide audience. I mean, if you were an average movie-goer who didn't follow EU material, what do you think your reaction to the Maul cameo out of nowhere would be? Would it be "Cool!"? Or something more like "Wait, is that the guy who got chopped in half in a widely-derided movie that came out almost twenty years ago? How is he still alive? That makes no sense. Maybe its a different guy who looks like him?"

So this film was never going to be a mega-hit, and frankly, I think Disney overreacted by pulling the plug on the Star Wars spin-offs. Ultimately, I wonder if this is a case of unrealistic expectations. After all, its not as though Solo completely bombed. I feel like they expect every Star Wars film to be a billion-dollar mega-hit or else its a failure, and if so, that's not realistic. We had the same thing after TLJ- people acting like the film was a disaster because its numbers were lower than TFA, even though every second film in a Star Wars trilogy has had substantially lower numbers than the first.

So: Disney, not every Star Wars film is going to get TFA's numbers. Suck it up, and stop changing course wildly. Because right now, the biggest problem with this franchise, in my opinion, is that it feels like there's no clear direction coming from the top.

[Gandalf]

Given that SW also made the space SS into a children's TV merch empire, jokes about slavery would be par for the course.

[Vympel]

So this film was never going to be a mega-hit, and frankly, I think Disney overreacted by pulling the plug on the Star Wars spin-offs. Ultimately, I wonder if this is a case of unrealistic expectations. After all, its not as though Solo completely bombed. I feel like they expect every Star Wars film to be a billion-dollar mega-hit or else its a failure, and if so, that's not realistic. We had the same thing after TLJ- people acting like the film was a disaster because its numbers were lower than TFA, even though every second film in a Star Wars trilogy has had substantially lower numbers than the first.

So: Disney, not every Star Wars film is going to get TFA's numbers. Suck it up, and stop changing course wildly. Because right now, the biggest problem with this franchise, in my opinion, is that it feels like there's no clear direction coming from the top.

Two things:

- That Disney's 'pulled the plug' on the spinoffs is a rumor that's been roundly denied at this point. I can't imagine there isn't some re-configuring going on, but all indications are we'll see more 'Star Wars Story' films in the future;

- I don't think you'll find a credible box office analyst anywhere that wont' say that TFA massively over-performed. Seriously, it was insane - and not just for the total gross- but the North American box office alone was simply out of this world. No Star Wars movie will ever get those sorts of numbers again. I'm sure Disney knows that. But Solo should've made more than it did regardless, and that's down to a bunch of different factors, including the film's lack of 'main episode' appeal, its premise, release date*, etc.

*This movie should've come out in December. That's now 'Star Wars' month. But it didn't, because Disney didn't want to interfere with Mary Poppins, which was a more important release (big family friendly movie). That's a perfectly valid business decision, but Solo suffered for it in a crowded release environment.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hadn't thought about the release date making that big a difference.

But yeah, those are good points. Still, while they may not expect every film to be a TFA, I do feel like some people got overly-optimistic expectations of future films as a result. Solo right now is a net loss for Disney financially, there's no denying that (though it might make up some of that once DVD/Netflix etc. is factored in). And yeah, that's going to make them nervous. But it also wasn't exactly a massive bomb. If its budget hadn't been driven up by reshoots, and if it had been marketed more effectively, I suspect it would have turned at least a modest profit by now (apparently most of the film was reshot when they switched directors). Which is still weak for a Star Wars film, but I think that's to be expected when you make a stand-alone film that is pretty much designed to appeal to hard core fans and not a wider audience. If anything, the lesson here should be to stop constantly trying to appeal to the hard core (especially OT-focused) fan base and use the stand-alones to work on expanding the universe beyond revisiting OT characters and plot-lines*, because by and large, you will never earn their approval no matter how hard you try.

I hadn't heard about the spin-off thing being discredited. In that case, I withdraw that complaint, though I wonder where the rumor originated from.

[Elheru Aran]

Honestly Solo was mostly just kind of a shitty situation overall. Expensive production (basically two productions in one, really) running up the cost, being released at a bad time, to lackluster fan reception... yeah. The only thing that could've really saved it, IMO, was a longer marketing period to make more non-fans aware of it and thus releasing it later in the year. Perhaps July or even August, if they're still trying not to compete with Mary Poppins.

[The Romulan Republic]

Which just reinforces my view that the fundamental problem with the Disney era of Star Wars is not on the creative end, but on the executive end.

What's baffling is that Disney handled the MCU much better than this. Is it just different people overseeing the two franchises, and for some reason the MCU got all the competent execs?

[The Romulan Republic]

Some speculation about possible upcoming films/follow-ups to Solo/tie-ins with the ST:

https://www.bustle.com/p/will-quira-be- ... er-9237508

In Solo, the biggest plot twist of the movie happens, unsurprisingly, at the very end. It turns out that Qi'ra (Emilia Clarke) has been working for Darth Maul's crime ring, which audiences hadn't really thought possible considering that the villain died in Episode I: Phantom Menace. With such a shocking ending, it seems almost certain that Qi'ra will be in more Star Wars movies. The fact that Clarke has a contract for additional films only makes predictions of a future movie starring Qi'ra and Darth Maul even more likely to come true.

The poor reception of Solo may have doomed this, but its an interesting possibility.

The ending of Solo might lead people to conclude that the next Star Wars movie will be about Darth Maul, which makes sense since we all have questions about how exactly the former Sith Lord survived being severed in half by Obi-Wan's lightsaber. As such, the next Star Wars standalone movie could very well hav a focus on Qi'ra, especially if the theory that she's Rey's (Daisy Ridley) mom is actually true.

Its no surprise if you've watched The Clone Wars/Rebels, but see what I mean about this movie not being aimed at casual fans or the general public? No shit it had lower audience numbers.

Also, remember when "Rey's parents are x" theories were a dime-a-dozen on the internet? Nice to see TLJ didn't completely kill such speculation.

The debates over Rey's parentage have been going on since the mysterious scrapper first appeared in The Force Awakens. Basically, every female character from Star Wars history has come up as a potential mother-figure, from General Leia (Carrie Fisher) to Jyn Erso (Felicity Jones). The evidence that Qi'ra is actually Rey's mother, though, is pretty strong, since the two characters seem to have many similar qualities including their grittiness and independence - not to mention expert fighting skills.

Because a woman being a good fighter is extraordinarily rare. Seriously, this is really thin- only marginally better than "maybe Finn is Lando's/Mace Windu's son, 'cause, you know, there can only be two black families in Star Wars".

They also cite the fact that originally, Rey's name was apparently "Kira".

Not sure I buy this, but its fun to speculate. Having Qi'ra be Rey's mother though would be a rather strange coincidence if Han isn't the father, but still ended up becoming Rey's father-figure for a brief while in TFA. But given the timing, Han couldn't be the father- Rey is too young to have been conceived pre-ANH). Unless the two met up again later, in which case it would pretty much mean Han cheating on Leia. Also, the shippy vibes between Rey and Kylo are bad enough without adding incest to the mix. So, weird coincidence is what we're left with (or I guess in this franchise, we call it "the Will of the Force").

So, not really buying this, though I can see Qi'ra ending up as a drunk selling her daughter for money, if she continues down the path of cynicism and self-loathing that she's currently on until her luck eventually runs out.

[Elheru Aran]

Which just reinforces my view that the fundamental problem with the Disney era of Star Wars is not on the creative end, but on the executive end.

What's baffling is that Disney handled the MCU much better than this. Is it just different people overseeing the two franchises, and for some reason the MCU got all the competent execs?

As I understand it:

Marvel Studios, while owned by Disney, has more freedom and creative control. Disney is mostly letting them do their own thing and only really distributes the movies and receives a share of the profits. A big part of this is that Marvel have a fairly extensive plan for their future films, and as such Disney isn't having to do most of the work-- there's already a structure in place. A lot of the executive producers and show-runners are already in place from Marvel Comics itself IIRC. It's not like, say, Jeph Loeb (to pull a name out of a hat, I don't know if he actually works at Marvel these days) lost his job the minute Disney bought Marvel.

Lucasfilm on the other hand was bought well before TFA came out; as far as I know, Lucasfilm had no serious plans to continue the Star Wars story beyond what they were already doing (the EU, Clone Wars). This suggests that Disney was much more the impetus behind the creation of the sequel trilogy and the story films, because they saw it as their property to do with as they wanted. Marvel on the other hand had a more consistent structure, a longer term plan, and was independently capable of doing its own movies.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, that makes sense, I suppose.

[Elheru Aran]

I mean... who was in charge of Lucasfilm before Disney bought it? George Lucas (and assorted executives, but I'm pretty sure George's decision was generally final).

After the prequels, as I understand it, Lucas was basically finished with Star Wars. He might have toyed with ideas of exploring the sequel to the OT-- it sounds like he worked unofficially to some extent with guys like JJ Abrams regarding the ST, and IIRC they have said stuff like 'x or y was George's idea' suggesting that he had some stuff already thought out-- but as far as I know, he wasn't interested enough to do more than throw a few ideas around before Disney bought his company. Clone Wars is mostly Dave Filoni's baby with Lucas' blessing, is my understanding.

If Lucas ever made the sequels, they might have come out thirty years after the PT, if that. But I'm pretty sure that once he was done with the Anakin Skywalker origin story, and tying it into the OT, he was done. The degree of independence he gave the EU (under the creative control of Pablo Hidalgo et al) suggests that to me-- he wasn't particularly interested anymore.

That, IMO, is why the sequel trilogy and associated films never became a reality until after Disney bought it and assumed creative control.