It also won't happen if the Emperor is successfully opposed.Kuja wrote:I won't happen if you don't oppose the Emperor and do your job efficiently.Rogue 9 wrote:You mean cold blooded murder? I'll pass, thanks.
Which side are you on?
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No, you are right, aside from people going "Palp's paln was always to come back!", it's not balanced mostly because he created a system that required him. Literally if he removed himself in any fashion or form, the system collasped like a house of cards. But compared to the sheer bickering and nonsense that preceeded it? It honestly and sadly was a helluva lot better.Stofsk wrote:That doesn't make any sense. If the empire was designed to fall in Palpy's absence then how can it be considered a stable government? It doesn't sound terribly balanced to me.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The Empire was designed to self-destruct in Palpatine's absence, so the Imperial Civil War doesn't count.
Though really it wasn't the rebellion that gave him a headache, it honestly was Luke. The Imperial Civil war appears more and more something he kept alive for the same reason he used the Clone Wars, to allow huge military build up. Take the ICW this way...literally if Luke had never be, the DS would've ben in place, Tarkin's Doctrine would more then likely have come to pass of the truth of the matter, and Momtha's Alliance would've been a footnote in Galactic history.
All in all aside from the highest part of the Galactic government, the New Order actually brought about more stability then the waning days of the OR.
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You assume that the Rebellion knew about the Yuuzhan Vong in advance. They didn't; the Vong had no influence on their actions. Besides, I don't know if the Empire could have beaten back the Vong or not. I mean, surely the Republic's fleets did something. A whole numbered fleet is kept at Coruscant, for crying out loud! Besides, we're talking about the Rebellion, not the New Republic.
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There were no absolute laws in the Galactic Empire. It is a despotate; none of her laws and constitutions in anyway limit the power of the Galactic Emperor.Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Laws ensure your freedom, child...
The Galactic Emperor was a Sith Lord, and fully intended to reduce the general citizenry to a cross between feudal serfs and Orwellian proles subservient to an overclass of Dark Side Adepts answering to the Galactic Emperor and his Sith Apprentice.
The Yuuzhan Vong were oppurtunists; at no other point in Galactic history was the galaxy probably easily assailable. Even the Old Republic probably could've thwarted the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.
As it happens, the New Republic was in a state of flux from being run by a band of empowered guerillas to oppurtunistic politicans, before the formation of a stable power structure. Her fleet was also in the progress of being normalized: it was being filled-in from above as seen with the refit Guardian, the Strident and Viscount Star Defenders, and the Mediator battlecruiser.
The Yuuzhan Vong invasion killed perhaps a quantity only equal to the population of Coruscant. The invasion track covered perhaps a third of the galaxy, and little of that was direct occupation due to Yuuzhan Vong manpower problems.
I take the trial-by-fire which probably will harden the galactic civilization over perpetual subjugation before an overlordship of sadistic Sith who quite literally suck the life force from the population.
Last edited by Illuminatus Primus on 2004-02-14 01:31am, edited 1 time in total.
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Given that it would be reliant on one man deciding vermin shouldn't be challenging him vs a group of mealy mouthed pussies wondering what should they do?Rogue 9 wrote: Besides, I don't know if the Empire could have beaten back the Vong or not.
I'd say the YV become a footnote in Galactic history, given if the Empire was in charge.
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Are you kidding me?Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.
Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.
This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.
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The Empire posessed more than 96,000 Star Destroyers within her Sector Groups alone. This discounts the strategic forces including the massive Saxton cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships intermediate between the mile-long standard star destroyer and the mighty command ship Executor.
Unfortunately for the New Republic, it had just barely started to fill-in a larger scale fleet when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded.
The Galactic Empire would've destroyed the Yuuzhan Vong within months.
Unfortunately for the New Republic, it had just barely started to fill-in a larger scale fleet when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded.
The Galactic Empire would've destroyed the Yuuzhan Vong within months.
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A Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer, no matter which government owns it, and the Vong seem to knock out ISDs fairly easily.Ghost Rider wrote:Are you kidding me?Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.
Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.
This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.
When the Vong took Coruscant, did First Fleet just surrender, or what? I never got that far in the series, but if the Republic's military just folded for no reason I don't think I'm going to bother finishing.
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Poor assumption, given that the NR had a different ideas and models for the models of Star Destroyer.Rogue 9 wrote:A Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer is a Star Destroyer, no matter which government owns it, and the Vong seem to knock out ISDs fairly easily.Ghost Rider wrote:Are you kidding me?Rogue 9 wrote:Yes, but the problem is he decides that and then his Star Destroyers are carved up just as easily as the Republic's were.
Given the sheer numbers he could throw at them as well as the better weaponry he had at his disposal.
This combined with Nom Anor's statement that they preferred the NR because they could effectively shut down the military through the polictical nonsense, you're going have to come up with something much better then a flimsy supposition on your part.
But even going by this...the Empire had millions more then the NR. Had an array of weapons that the NR never had access to as well as far larger resources.
I'm not even going there because you're assuming that the NR and New Order had similar scaled fleets.When the Vong took Coruscant, did First Fleet just surrender, or what? I never got that far in the series, but if the Republic's military just folded for no reason I don't think I'm going to bother finishing.
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The New Order's typical destroyer is the ISD.
The New Order's typical cruiser is around the size or mass of the TradeFed battleship; perhaps larger.
Battlecruiser is either Jerec's Vengeance or some of the Marvel ships.
Battleship is Geil's infamous giant wedge-shaped vessel.
The NR maintains cruisers in the MC90 range, although it is filling-in from the bottom, with the combination of refit ISDs, Bothan Assault Cruisers, Republic and Defender destroyers.
Battlecruiser would be the Mediator.
Battleship is the Strident or Viscount.
The New Order's typical cruiser is around the size or mass of the TradeFed battleship; perhaps larger.
Battlecruiser is either Jerec's Vengeance or some of the Marvel ships.
Battleship is Geil's infamous giant wedge-shaped vessel.
The NR maintains cruisers in the MC90 range, although it is filling-in from the bottom, with the combination of refit ISDs, Bothan Assault Cruisers, Republic and Defender destroyers.
Battlecruiser would be the Mediator.
Battleship is the Strident or Viscount.
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Let's not forget the Galaxy Gun, Death Stars, Sun Crusher, Eclipse, World Devestators, etc.Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Empire posessed more than 96,000 Star Destroyers within her Sector Groups alone. This discounts the strategic forces including the massive Saxton cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships intermediate between the mile-long standard star destroyer and the mighty command ship Executor.
JADAFETWA
I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have? The Yavin throneroom bit? Sure, it's cool, but can't top the March.
But if I could live under any order, I'd say Thrawn's Empire, in an AU where he wins. I think that'd be cool.
But if I could live under any order, I'd say Thrawn's Empire, in an AU where he wins. I think that'd be cool.
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The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
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"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
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Luke and Leia.RogueIce wrote:I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have?
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Bah. Sure, it's pretty and all, but it's hardly fit for a military force.YT300000 wrote:Luke and Leia.RogueIce wrote:I go by theme music myself. The Empire has the Imperial March. What do the Rebels have?
Besides, that doesn't count for the Rebels as a whole. It's just them two, and it's more a Brother/Sister thing.
Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Oh! I know! Into the Trap.RogueIce wrote:Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?
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Wow. It took me a good minute to remember I didn't have testicles. -xBlackFlash
Are you sure this isn't like that time Michael Jackson stopped by your house so he could use the bathroom? - Superman
Not really. Remember that little bit of the Imperial March thrown in there? Just plain ol' battle music (very nice, though).YT300000 wrote:Oh! I know! Into the Trap.RogueIce wrote:Does the Rebel Alliance even have real theme music?
So, no RA theme music. So, to me at least, that's something that makes the Empire win, hands down.
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
Yeah, THroneroom is closest. But the Alliance Assembly..it's so, short.Stofsk wrote:Alliance Assembly? Y'know, when the fleet assembled to attack the DS2?RogueIce wrote:...So, no RA theme music. So, to me at least, that's something that makes the Empire win, hands down.
Either that or the Throneroom. The RA has a theme, it's just not as ominious.
Anyway, so they do have theme music. It's just not as cool as the Empire's.
Long live His Imperial Majesty!
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
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Thus you are ASSUMING they had similar scaled fleet, given the sheer differeneces in both military spending and structure.Rogue 9 wrote:No I'm not, I'm assuming that First Fleet would be on the same scale as Fifth Fleet, and Fifth was a bigass force.Ghost Rider wrote:I'm not even going there because you're assuming that the NR and New Order had similar scaled fleets.
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No, Fifth Fleet was a Republic unit, and First Fleet was a Republic unit. The Imperial fleet sizes never entered into the equation, and in fact the entire Black Fleet Crisis trilogy is littered with very strong indications that the numbered fleets are a standard unit and the Fifth Fleet is fairly well laid out. Also, that series also states that First Fleet is stationed at and guards Coruscant. Therefore, a force the size of the Fifth Fleet that attacked the Yevetha should have been at Coruscant. See what I'm saying now?