Most retarded "Talifan" criticism ever

[Noble Ire]

This is something I cop to freely and without abandon, and I thank you for noticing it.

Your honesty is appreciated, at least.

Oh, no. To be honest, the thing that's still keeping me here is the segment of the conversation that is interesting, reasoned, and fair. I give the board credit - when I came here this afternoon, I didn't dare hope I'd see some of the stuff that's come out of this discussion. It warms my cold, 'Net-cynic's heart.

But we're still insane, I hope. One must remain consistant.

[apocolypse]

Well, obviously, after that point. I meant just in my posts here. And I didn't actually say "respectful", I said -more- respectful. Which in some cases left me quite a bit of room to play in.

Please. All you did was say "Fuck you" with extra words and flowery language. One of the nice things about being registered here is that you quickly learn to see past all the bullshit.

He could, but he has demonstrated a tremendous ego. I suspect that leaving a thread in which he has been granted such copious amounts attention would be neigh impossible.

But see, here is what amuses me. He doesn't realize he'll quickly be forgotten once all this dies down. No one really cares that much now, and even less so later.

[Bryan Lambert]

The artist is "obligated" to tell critics to fuck off? More like the artist should listen for valid criticism in an effort to improve.

Thomas Kincaid should listen for valid criticism. Pablo Picasso should say "fuck off, I like the eyes where they are."

These fans are dumbshits. Many people here don't buy SW Expanded Universe products that they know will be of poor quality. Many people have already said that they won't buy Karen Traviss's crap.

And in that, they have my unmitigated support. In that.

You still haven't given me a reason why increasing the chances of a product that you like being produced by telling the company what you actually want is bad.

Because the company can't listen to everybody. As soon as something has two fans, it becomes impossible to please both of them all of the time. And from a purely creative standpoint, listening to the audience is crippling. It's stifling. And it only becomes necessary when you're stuck between selling your art, and starving.

And, you know, here in a civil argument, you present it very sedately. "increasing the chances of a product you like being produced" is not the way fandom usually presents its demands. All too often, it's "FIX IT. YOU OWE IT TO US TO FIX IT." And it's the latter attitude that I mainly take issue with in practice. We've kind of been talking theory the last few posts.

[Bryan Lambert]

But we're still insane, I hope.

Well, the crazy ones still are, that's for damn sure.

[Surlethe]

And, you know, here in a civil argument, you present it very sedately. "increasing the chances of a product you like being produced" is not the way fandom usually presents its demands. All too often, it's "FIX IT. YOU OWE IT TO US TO FIX IT." And it's the latter attitude that I mainly take issue with in practice. We've kind of been talking theory the last few posts.

You know, ideally, the argument should be, "FIX IT. YOU LOOK LIKE A GODDAMNED RETARD IF YOU LET IT STAY THE WAY IT IS. YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF AND YOUR LEGACY TO PURGE ALL STUPIDITY FROM THE UNIVERSE.*"

*that particular science fiction universe, that is. Unfortunately, purging stupidity from the actual universe would require godlike capabilities.

[Stark]

Oh christ, he's comparing SW:EU writers to Picasso. What a fucking cockmonkey.

[Bryan Lambert]

Unfortunately, purging stupidity from the actual universe would require godlike capabilities.

Even more than that, I think. I've been at it for two and a half years and I've barely made a dent.

[Stark]

I'm not going to break up your fellation enough to point out that 'stupid' is a relative quantity, and you could eliminate that as much as you could eliminate 'poverty'. But you know that, since you're much cleverer than all of us, right? Thought so!

[apocolypse]

Bryan, I know you're aware of the current spat with Traviss and friends, but maybe an explanation of the current state of affairs would help shed some light. (That is of course, assuming you don't already know. Perhaps you do.)

You see, many SW fans have been annoyed for some time by the rather obviously "pulled it from my ass and did no real research" figures and stories, etc by many authors for a long time. Finally, there's quite a few releases of quality (the DK books being of note), and then we go right back to the same hack-job bullshit stupidity from before. Do note, most people aren't irritated with Traviss solely, there's quite a few releases of dubious quality out right now. But the pathetic agenda of Traviss and the attempt to re-write the movies themselves is what has moved her to the top of many lists. I think it's more the shitty rationalizations for a poorly researched number and the wailings of abuse (of which there's never been proof of) from said author that keeps the debate going more than anything else.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Unfortunately, purging stupidity from the actual universe would require godlike capabilities.

Even more than that, I think. I've been at it for two and a half years and I've barely made a dent.

A-ha...a-ha, a-HA-HA...ha.

Whoo.

Yeah. You're a killer there dude. You should be on Def Comedy Jam, your jokes are old enough.

[Stark]

18, how dare you criticise! That'd be like telling Picasso to move the eyes! YOU HORRIBLE LITTLE NERD I WILL ANGRILY POST ABOUT YOU ON MY BLOG.

[Bryan Lambert]

I'd like to thank those of you who made this a different experience than I expected. You know who you are.

I suspect that tomorrow won't bring the same circumstances that let me answer all your questions and concerns the way I did today - I'll look in when I can, assuming I'm able, but I think we've more than adequately covered the ground.

This being the Internet, now is the time for those of you who are so inclined to throw your parting shots my way and concoct your own elaborate fantasies about why I'm bowing out now. Please don't let me stop you. That's the best part.

[Stark]

How about 'comparing purely subjective criteria like 'I like the eyes where they are' to objective numbers like '3 million army to conquer the galaxy' is valid, and not fallacious at all'? C'mon, you can laugh at it now.

[Big Phil]

I'd like to thank those of you who made this a different experience than I expected. You know who you are.

I suspect that tomorrow won't bring the same circumstances that let me answer all your questions and concerns the way I did today - I'll look in when I can, assuming I'm able, but I think we've more than adequately covered the ground.

This being the Internet, now is the time for those of you who are so inclined to throw your parting shots my way and concoct your own elaborate fantasies about why I'm bowing out now. Please don't let me stop you. That's the best part.

Thanks for stopping by - you (or more accurately those you had foaming at the mouth) made me laugh my ass off tonight.

[Master of Ossus]

The artist is "obligated" to tell critics to fuck off? More like the artist should listen for valid criticism in an effort to improve.

Thomas Kincaid should listen for valid criticism. Pablo Picasso should say "fuck off, I like the eyes where they are."

When a SW author becomes analogous to Pablo Picasso or Gertrude Stein, be sure to let me know.

Of course, you must similarly reject the idea of criticism in the public domain or else you wouldn't be here. I guess that your definition of "art" extends to dime novels but not so far as to include internet postings.

[Jim Raynor]

Thomas Kincaid should listen for valid criticism. Pablo Picasso should say "fuck off, I like the eyes where they are."

Do you honestly believe Karen Traviss is more like Picasso than everybody else?

And in that, they have my unmitigated support. In that.

Wait...are you actually saying that you support stupid fans who knowingly buy crap with a certain brand name? But you think we're stupid, insane, nerdy, etc. for saying something about it?

Because the company can't listen to everybody. As soon as something has two fans, it becomes impossible to please both of them all of the time.

So using a more sensible number will actually turn away the other fans? Funny, it didn't happen when Curtis Saxton wrote the Incredible Cross Sections book, or when other SW books used numbers that weren't fucking retarded. A lot of fans don't care about the numbers either way. Sometimes it is impossible to please everyone, but in this case it was possible to please everyone. You would have understood that if you weren't a fucking moron.

And from a purely creative standpoint, listening to the audience is crippling. It's stifling. And it only becomes necessary when you're stuck between selling your art, and starving.

Dumbshit. Most other people understand what constructive criticism is, and learn from it.

And, you know, here in a civil argument, you present it very sedately. "increasing the chances of a product you like being produced" is not the way fandom usually presents its demands. All too often, it's "FIX IT. YOU OWE IT TO US TO FIX IT." And it's the latter attitude that I mainly take issue with in practice. We've kind of been talking theory the last few posts.

Bullshit. You're trying to portray us as a bunch of immature brats who make unjustified demands. Its more like we think Traviss's work (and other similarly stupid things) suck, so we say so. Most of the time, we don't even have direct contact with the people at LFL. However, we know they read boards like TFN, and we're not going to kiss ass and say we love something when we really don't. And you know what? Even if it's just talking amongst fans, or venting, with no expectation that it will cause change, who the FUCK are you to tell us we can't do it? Shut the hell up already, you stupid, arrogant assclown.

[Jim Raynor]

Oh christ, he's comparing SW:EU writers to Picasso. What a fucking cockmonkey.

Don't you get it? Karen Traviss is an avant-garde artist! She's utilizing her innovative new literary technique of "writing stupid ass shit." We're obviously too stupid and closed-minded to appreciate Traviss's artistic accomplishments. Thanks for showing us the light, Mr. Lambert.

[Coyote]

Well, at the risk...

I hate to say this, but folks, the more you spin and agitate, the more satisfaction he gets-- because the stereotype he's assembled gets, in his point of view, re-affirmed. He has a right to come here and speak as he pleases, he has not broken any actual rule that I know of, yet, but the consequences of speaking one's mind may well be looking like an arrogant ass.

Bryan, you do indeed come across as arrogant, and any "lesson" you may be trying to teach is therefore being obfuscated. I want to ask you something about the entertainment industry in general.

Now, movies are fantasy and represent an unreal world for entertainment purposes. But that does not mean that people want their entertainment to be poorly executed or sloppily delivered. I remember watching some of the old war movies made in the '70's and '80's, things like Rambo... they were rediculous, with people doing insanely stupid things-- firing with full-automatic from the hip, walking around upright in battlefields, using weapons in such unsafe and unrealistic manners that the wielder himself would have been killed...

It may be fantasy, but it need not be entirely insulting. The moguls at Hollywood slowly began to realize that "Rambo" type war films were seen as schlock. We started to see movies with more attention to detail, more realism. "Platoon" came out, the "Full Metal Jacket", where bad guys didn't just clutch their chest and go "Ahh!" and fall down, with the bodies conveniently gone in time for the next scene. Realities became more precise, and even though the works were fiction, they treated their audience with more respect. The entertainment became better and we got better quality entertainment for our money.

That is why people's entertainment needs grow. We graduate from grade-school readers to juvenile fiction, then perhaps stop off at some pop culture novelist and then eventually we're reading masterpiece literature.

If no one had cared or tweaked Hollywood's nose with their bullshit portrayal of war movies, then we wouldn't have "Saving Private Ryan" today, we'd still be moaning through cartoon-esque schlock pieces that insult the inteligence of the audience.

When Star Wars fans see a bullshit job done on something they've come to enjoy and care about, it's insulting. People won't just eagerly yuk up any old bowl of crap just because it has R2D2 in it somewhere. People want standards, and demand decent effort be made to fulfill the endeavour. Truly hopeless nerds would, indeed, lick up any drooling spittle offered so long as it had TIE fighters in it and call it a feast. Good critical fans demand more than that, and I wonder why demanding high standards of entertainment is so problematic for you.

When an author does not put forth the effort to think these things through, it is insulting to the audience. The audience-- the people that fork over their money so that the creator might eventually go on to greater works of art-- have a right to be treated equitably.

[apocolypse]

Thanks for stopping by - you (or more accurately those you had foaming at the mouth) made me laugh my ass off tonight.

I guess you must have been reading a different thread then, because no one was hardly "foaming at the mouth". It was no different than any other time someone has been mocked by the board at large for trollish behavior.

[Crossroads Inc.]

<_<
>_>

His second half is up guys! And I'm sure you;ll all get a big kick from it!

[Jim Raynor]

I see that he still has absolutely no fucking point beyond "LOLZ SW nerdz!!!11!!!!1." *Yawns* It actually seemed a bit angry to me. I thought this was supposed to be a "comedy."

I don't feel like searching through pages and pages of this shitty thread, so can anybody just answer this question to me? Didn't this little fucker claim that we had him all wrong, that his trash talk was really just an intro to a much longer essay, and that his next blog - oops, COLUMN article would be less insulting and a lot more substantial?

[Edi]

Coyote, he actually has broken rules here, namely continually evading the point, leaving arguments unaddressed and all the other bullshit he pulled. Lambert's nothing but an attention whore who thinks he's oh-so-clever and who enjoys trolling for kicks. He's the type of asshole who has a ready-made opinion on everything and who's not the least bit interested in hearing anything that runs counter to his preferences.

As for his pathetic tirades, it's obvious he's projecting his own deficiencies on others while whipping his skippy to how awesome he is and how he's fighting all the world's stupidity all on his own. *snort*

What a pathetic douchebag.

Edi

[Jim Raynor]

For such a well-balanced guy who's totally not an irredeemable nerd, he seems to spend a lot of time lurking/trolling the internet. God, he actually spent all day typing up two articles bashing a fandom he claims to take no part in, and making over 40 posts on a board that didn't even know of his existence before yesterday.

[Coyote]

Yeah, Edi, but you know me... always gotta give a fair chance. That way when the banstick gets wielded, no tears are shed 'cause everything in all fairness was tried.

[Stark]

Oh shoosh, Sanchez is laughing at you all! Don't play his 'I'm a fucking dumbass' game!