Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Galvatron]

I have always wondered when people make claims of "overuse of CGI" mean?

It's simple. A good artist needs to know not only what he wants to represent and how but when to stop. With real models each and every item is expensive and thus each and every one need to be calculated. This forces the artist to think carefully about what they are doing and makes sure that he usually stops in time. CGI, especially bad CGI is far cheaper. Thus a movie maker can far ore easily go beyond that line and into bad taste.

What is "bad CGI" in this context? So you are saying a movie maker can easily go beyond that line and into bad taste? Isn't this all subjective? If the filmmaker feels whatever method the choose best represents their vision, isn't that all that matters?

Yes, of course it's subjective. You can make the same argument to defend any given Michael Bay movie though, so what matters more: Michael Bay's vision or the subjective quality of the final product?

[Andy Wylde]

It's simple. A good artist needs to know not only what he wants to represent and how but when to stop. With real models each and every item is expensive and thus each and every one need to be calculated. This forces the artist to think carefully about what they are doing and makes sure that he usually stops in time. CGI, especially bad CGI is far cheaper. Thus a movie maker can far ore easily go beyond that line and into bad taste.

What is "bad CGI" in this context? So you are saying a movie maker can easily go beyond that line and into bad taste? Isn't this all subjective? If the filmmaker feels whatever method the choose best represents their vision, isn't that all that matters?

Yes, of course it's subjective. You can make the same argument to defend any given Michael Bay movie though, so what matters more: Michael Bay's vision or the subjective quality of the final product?

Well since the final products quality is subjective it really doesn't matter what I think or what you think on that matter. Our opinions on that matter mean nothing to the person making the films. In this case it's Michael Bay. When he makes the films, it is his decision on what looks good or bad. I can think it looks bad all day long as a member of the audience, but what does that really even prove? Nothing. So how I feel about the final product has no bearing on how the filmmaker feels about it. I am just watching the final product.

And no matter what I think it is Michael Bay's vision as you stated. I already said a couple of posts back that I feel any artist, no matter what art it is films, TV, music, painting etc. should use whatever methods they feel brings their vision to life. I am not much of a fan of Bay's films, but if he chooses a way to make his product, what does this have to do with how I feel about it?

[Terralthra]

You mean the little robot Anakin rides a few seconds later?

No.

Err, yes, it actually is. The hovering robot that comes into frame is the same model (if not the actual same droid) as Anakin jumps onto above the lava a minute or two later.

[Borgholio]

Two new TV spots. Huh. Finn vs the Stormtrooper is...interesting...

[Lord Revan]

at this point finn is probably not that much more powerful then the average Stormtrooper (as he starts out as esentially an average stormtrooper) seeing how the First Order probaganda seems to focus on Luke Skywalker I wouldn't be surpriced if First Order Stormtroopers are trained with anti-jedi tactics, though I suspect that those tactics wouldn't be that effective against someone like Kanaan or Luke, but would effective against someone who knows the basics of lightsabre combat at best, like Finn.

[DarthPooky]

A clip YYYAAA

[Adam Reynolds]

at this point finn is probably not that much more powerful then the average Stormtrooper (as he starts out as esentially an average stormtrooper) seeing how the First Order probaganda seems to focus on Luke Skywalker I wouldn't be surpriced if First Order Stormtroopers are trained with anti-jedi tactics, though I suspect that those tactics wouldn't be that effective against someone like Kanaan or Luke, but would effective against someone who knows the basics of lightsabre combat at best, like Finn.

Given that Finn, presumably unlike Rey, is a completely untrained Force sensitive, he would be even less effective. It's the same reason Jedi in RPGs are crap until they level up because they waste skills on Force abilites that aren't very useful yet. It's also like the progression of Han and Luke in the OT. Han really didn't increase his skills through the course of the films. Luke on the other hand massively did. I suspect that will also be the case with Finn and to a lesser extent Rey in the new movies. Rey already seems more skilled overall. Possibly on the same level as Kylo even.

[Lord Revan]

at this point finn is probably not that much more powerful then the average Stormtrooper (as he starts out as esentially an average stormtrooper) seeing how the First Order probaganda seems to focus on Luke Skywalker I wouldn't be surpriced if First Order Stormtroopers are trained with anti-jedi tactics, though I suspect that those tactics wouldn't be that effective against someone like Kanaan or Luke, but would effective against someone who knows the basics of lightsabre combat at best, like Finn.

Given that Finn, presumably unlike Rey, is a completely untrained Force sensitive, he would be even less effective. It's the same reason Jedi in RPGs are crap until they level up because they waste skills on Force abilites that aren't very useful yet. It's also like the progression of Han and Luke in the OT. Han really didn't increase his skills through the course of the films. Luke on the other hand massively did. I suspect that will also be the case with Finn and to a lesser extent Rey in the new movies. Rey already seems more skilled overall. Possibly on the same level as Kylo even.

possibly but I'd be careful about saying "the OT did this there this film will do this".

It would be nice if in the end just as Kylo Ren is about to finish off our heroes his lightsabre is torn of from him and we see Luke appear with Kylo's sabre in hand making it clear that Luke took it from Kylo using the force, making it clear while Kylo Ren might be more powerful then our new heroes he still has much to learn before he is as powerful as Luke.

[Adam Reynolds]

possibly but I'd be careful about saying "the OT did this there this film will do this".

It would be nice if in the end just as Kylo Ren is about to finish off our heroes his lightsabre is torn of from him and we see Luke appear with Kylo's sabre in hand making it clear that Luke took it from Kylo using the force, making it clear while Kylo Ren might be more powerful then our new heroes he still has much to learn before he is as powerful as Luke.

I would bet on Rey doing it herself.

Anyway, I meant that as a logical progression for any Jedi that is not trained until later in life, not that these films would follow the same plots as the OT.

[Sgt_Artyom]

I wonder if the fact that the Storm Trooper having such a large melee weapon is normal and indicative of there being a reason they would need such training or armament at the time or if this guy is just unique in his choice of weapon.

Seems kind of like KOTOR to me were melee combat was common enough that both Sith and Republic troopers carried melee weapons (vibro blades and such) and could even go toe to toe with Jedi because the cortosis in the weapons.

Also, is it just me or does that Sullastans nose seem huge? I looked at every every picture I could find of one and he just looks likes he got the noise of a Gammorean.

[Purple]

What is "bad CGI" in this context?

Low quality CGI. Stuff like that CGI Beowolf movie where everyone skin seems to be oiled all the time or inserting a CGI image into a real scene without bothering to make sure the lighting fits or to add shadows. Basically the CGI equivalent of bad special effects.

So you are saying a movie maker can easily go beyond that line and into bad taste? Isn't this all subjective?

Not really. We aren't talking about the artistic part here so much as the practical part. There are basic rules on how to compose a scene and such in order for it to make both visual and narrative sense. Stuff like perspective, focusing the viewer visually on the thing you want him to focus on instead of driving his eyes to jump all over the place, making sure you don't have elements that don't fit in the theme and purpose of the scene, keeping the background lights and such thematic in order to convey the right emotions etc.

If the filmmaker feels whatever method the choose best represents their vision, isn't that all that matters?

There needs to be more than just vision taken directly to screen. A good movie, or hell good anything also involves careful planing and examination to get things just right. Either way though physical models are superior here too because unlike CGI that's added in later physical models allow the director to see and tweak his scenes in real time.

[Andy Wylde]

What is "bad CGI" in this context?

Low quality CGI. Stuff like that CGI Beowolf movie where everyone skin seems to be oiled all the time or inserting a CGI image into a real scene without bothering to make sure the lighting fits or to add shadows. Basically the CGI equivalent of bad special effects.

Well that sounds more like the people in charge of the CGI aren't doing their job correctly. Without making sure the lighting is fixed or adding shadows. It isn't the CGI that is bad, the person doing it isn't doing it right.

So you are saying a movie maker can easily go beyond that line and into bad taste? Isn't this all subjective?

Not really. We aren't talking about the artistic part here so much as the practical part. There are basic rules on how to compose a scene and such in order for it to make both visual and narrative sense. Stuff like perspective, focusing the viewer visually on the thing you want him to focus on instead of driving his eyes to jump all over the place, making sure you don't have elements that don't fit in the theme and purpose of the scene, keeping the background lights and such thematic in order to convey the right emotions etc.

As you stated with "bad taste" nothing of what you just said here answers that. Taste is subjective and I don't debate subjective opinions. The technical aspects of it could be done in an incorrect way. But regarding SW, to me I haven't had any issues with the CGI in SW. If that is considered "bad taste", well I don't know or care if it is. It doesn't bother me when watching the films. I also have virtually no experience in the field of special effects. So perhaps I don't pick up on the small details.

If the filmmaker feels whatever method the choose best represents their vision, isn't that all that matters?

There needs to be more than just vision taken directly to screen. A good movie, or hell good anything also involves careful planing and examination to get things just right. Either way though physical models are superior here too because unlike CGI that's added in later physical models allow the director to see and tweak his scenes in real time.

Well for the most part, all the SW films utilized models. The PT even more so.

[Purple]

Well for the most part, all the SW films utilized models. The PT even more so.

My point was basically not related to SW as such. You asked why people keep making the CGI = bad argument and I explained it.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Err, yes, it actually is. The hovering robot that comes into frame is the same model (if not the actual same droid) as Anakin jumps onto above the lava a minute or two later.

it was unneeded at that moment. If they wanted to establish it, it coming in in the middle of the fight, going weewooweewoo and floating around distracting the viewer is the wrong way to do it.

[Andy Wylde]

[/quote] My point was basically not related to SW as such. You asked why people keep making the CGI = bad argument and I explained it.[/quote]

Ok I see what you are saying. It is more of the technical aspect of that would be the issue. I feel where you are coming from now. It's all good then. I was just pointing out that CGI in and of itself isn't bad overall. But as I also stated that I may not pick up on the finer details of it when I watch it.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Also why is it floating 300 metres up in the air? Shouldn't it be down ... the bottom of the... lava... waterfall... picking up half a litre of rock and transporting it a km or whatever...

what was the point in that robot? I mean really. It's just dumb.

And why does it take one look at the Jedi and look scared? Presumably you get ... people in this facility, not sure why the Robot would fly up 300m, observe them, squeak and then go back down again.

[Borgholio]

And why does it take one look at the Jedi and look scared?

Because they're having a lightsaber duel?

[Adam Reynolds]

Was it just me or was the Millennium Falcon in the background of that clip? The ship they ran past to jump on whatever ship they were headed towards.

[Prometheus Unbound]

And why does it take one look at the Jedi and look scared?

Because they're having a lightsaber duel?

But it's a robot... that picks up lava and seemingly moves it up hill (you know, instead of just taking the lava whilst it's up there. Although they do it with tiny bowls so it's a bit like a guy with a bucket and the amazon, it's so totally useless and pointless). Why would it know what a light sabre is or even care? It flies cm from a raging inferno volcano lava pit that randomly erupts. Why would a light sabre scare it?


It's dumb. Its entire concept is dumb!!!!!!!!!!

[Galvatron]

My only guess is that it was a supposed to be riff on the mouse droid from ANH that Chewie growled at. I don't know. I never really noticed it so it never really bothered me. The whole duel was overlong and what was admittedly the best movie of the PT had already lost any chance of redemption before then anyway.

[Adam Reynolds]

My only guess is that it was a supposed to be riff on the mouse droid from ANH that Chewie growled at. I don't know. I never really noticed it so it never really bothered me. The whole duel was overlong and what was admittedly the best movie of the PT had already lost any chance of redemption before then anyway.

Even though I disagree as to the quality, I have to agree with the rest of this. How is a five second sequence what ruined the film for you of all of the things you could criticize?

[Galvatron]

[DarthPooky]

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2015/ ... s-era.html

Found this little tidbit.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its too early to say, of course, but going by the teasers, this movie is going to kick every kind of ass.

[Iroscato]

Plz stahp posting new TV spots ._.

It's taking every ounce of my willpower not to click on them...must...stay...cold...