Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, looks like its going to be ST for Sequel Trilogy.

[Isolder74]

Well I finally was able to save enough to togo and watch The Force awakens.

I'm glad to report that it is worth it. I give the movie my seal of approval.

I am loving the new direction that the series is going now.

[LastShadow]

So let me preface this with i did NOT read this whole thread, i got about 6 pages in of arguments about PT vs OT and how bad Movie anakin was, which IMHO was beacuse of hayden's terrible deadpan acting and monotne voice in the movie's than anything else.

But TFA what this thread is here for:

From the get out, with the opening crawl i felt confused, all i wanted to know was WHY, why is there a new Empire type group, WHY is there a Resistance? WHO is this resistance?
I felt like this was confusing because of what those terms really mean, rebels and resistances generally fight against empires, legit governments, illegit governments, and totalitarian regimes. America would not form a little resistance movement to fight a war, it would roll out, and roll out hard. Where as a group of americans may form a group to fight against say Trumps totalitarian regime that he will inevitably form.
It felt, essentially out of place, which could be because the Novelizations is what really kept me into Star Wars in between these many many year breaks between trilogies, i know the republic as all these heroes, both large and small, and im given this weak ass resistance possibly backed by them, maybe not, but hey leia is in charge so who really knows whats up.

The ships and weapons. FFS, WHY. The new X-wings, at first i was leery, but in the comics and novels those are basically XJ type X-wings, so i let them slide. But the TIE fighters? WTF was going on with those, who though making an unshielded fighter a two seater? Are First Order pilots so bad they cannot fly AND shoot? What the hell was with that shuttle? I get it was designed loosely(very loosely) on the lambda shuttles from the OT, but what on earth was with those wing things, sure it looked cool enough but the design really made no logical sense. Then you get to the new star destroyer, almost no complaints, looks like a star destroyer but shiny and new, im OK with it, but WTF was that huge gun? Did it fire some type of weird hyper reactive super maneuverable missile? Did it fire some weird tracking lasers?

Ground type weapons. Why do blasters suddenly now shoot like chewies bowcaster is described to shoot in the novels? They function like nothing we saw in anything previously, not in the PT or the OT or TCW, like where did that come from? Also how does han fire chewies bowcaster TWICE without handing it to chewie? The whole point behind the damn thing was it was a wookies weapon, they built them and it took a wookies strength to recock it, granted that was mostly established in the novels, but really what other reason is there for it to look like that? they turned it into a fancy blaster, that kind of annoyed me. Spinny Tonfa, immune to lightsabers thing was interesting though.

Characters. I really liked Rey, i liked that her character from nearly start to finish came across as strong and confident. she came across as well rounded, and the actress and character wasnt portrayed as in your face pretty, which would have ruined her for me, since, ya know, scavenger.

I both liked and disliked Finn, i both liked and disliked how he was portrayed. He as a rollercoaster character if there was one, the things i disliked is, i could not for the life of me, figure out his motivations, like at all. Like he broke Poe out to escape, OK got it, thats solid. But then he just takes on his mission? Beacuse they had a short bromance going? his part of the story was thin, and came off like we need it for the movie, to me, he came off as the most important pointless character of all time, he came across as a pathological liar that digs himself so deep he just sticks to his guns. I wish his part of the story was a little bit better, so it at least made a lot more sense.

Poe. Good god. can you say most OP pilot ever? Him and his squadron make Wedge and the Rouges look like a rookie unit. (Novel wedge and rouges). Just good god, needed to be toned down, he made for an exciting-ish character, but was so over the top in everything that i just could not like him.

Kylo. Aside from the fact that he looks more related to the actor that play chewie, than either han or leia, i would have rather seen him more fleshed out. What on earth made him think Vader was GOOD role model to have? Overall MEH as acharacter from me, i didnt hate him, but i didnt like him. He came across as really strong sometimes, and really weak sometimes, which i guess was what they were going for?

Han and Leia. Hand had seemingly no real character growth, which for me, the Han solo from the novels was 10x TFA Han solo, easy, though at his end he had a tad of growth when he tried to help his son, the way he was shaping up in most of the film i honestly didnt expect it. Leia, i am glad they kept leia as a strong leader type, while i have seen other people gripe about this, i liked it. Leia wasnt just a pretty face, she was a strong character, capable of leading and inspiring others.

Chewie. Was chewie. I enjoyed his inclusion and the fact that he did not die by having a moon fall on him, i probably would have flipped my shit had he been left on the starkiller base and you saw him being left behind by Rey even though she wanted to go back for him.

Luke. .........*wind gently blowing*.....


Overall the movie left me confused and infuriated. I feel like i need about 30 - 40 novels between OT and ST to even begin to make sense of it all. Now dont get me wrong, visually it was gorgeous, and i mean stunningly gorgeous. It was a good theatrical experience. But i left the theater feeling like someone had taken a crap on my childhood and shined it. Bear in mind my girlfriend who has seen the movies, but never read the books, was equally confused throughout the whole movie.

But i feel like if it had been a reboot the way it is it would have been about 3-4 times better. It cherry picked a few things from its namesake, but overall felt like it wasnt the same place to me. It felt both familiar and totally alien at the same time and i found it utterly disconcerting.

TL;DR, pretty movie, like some characters not others, overall did not enjoy.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I'll be honest. The Force Awakens wasn't bad, wasn't good, just servicable. I'd expected a rehash of Ep. IV, just as TPM was a rehash of ANH to some extent, so that's not really an issue with me.

Abrams, I felt, followed Ep.IV a little too closely, out of a desire to play it safe, and not piss off the Star Wars fandom as he did the Trekkies, and as Lucas had antagonized the SW fandom with his decision to portray their sainted Jedi as idols with feet of clay...err, I mean with the overuse of CGI, bad writing, and Jar Jar Binks in the prequels(yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!).

But, overall, the movie wasn't bad. Maybe Episodes VIII and IX will fill in the blanks left by TFA. Like Last_Shadow, I was glad to see Chewie alive, and hope to see him developed into a mentor for our new heroes.

What I'd love to see is some of the more interesting characters from the EU brought in. Grand Admiral Thrawn is right out, but Gilad Pellaeon's appearance in either of the next two movies would not be amiss, especially with the Empire the way it is now. And, Nick Rostu, from the Clone Wars EU novel Shatterpoint, would also be a good fit for the sequels.

(or Nym, if truth be told, but I'm a bit of a Havoc-holic anyway)

[LastShadow]

I'll be honest. The Force Awakens wasn't bad, wasn't good, just servicable. I'd expected a rehash of Ep. IV, just as TPM was a rehash of ANH to some extent, so that's not really an issue with me.

Abrams, I felt, followed Ep.IV a little too closely, out of a desire to play it safe, and not piss off the Star Wars fandom as he did the Trekkies, and as Lucas had antagonized the SW fandom with his decision to portray their sainted Jedi as idols with feet of clay...err, I mean with the overuse of CGI, bad writing, and Jar Jar Binks in the prequels(yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!).

But, overall, the movie wasn't bad. Maybe Episodes VIII and IX will fill in the blanks left by TFA. Like Last_Shadow, I was glad to see Chewie alive, and hope to see him developed into a mentor for our new heroes.

What I'd love to see is some of the more interesting characters from the EU brought in. Grand Admiral Thrawn is right out, but Gilad Pellaeon's appearance in either of the next two movies would not be amiss, especially with the Empire the way it is now. And, Nick Rostu, from the Clone Wars EU novel Shatterpoint, would also be a good fit for the sequels.

(or Nym, if truth be told, but I'm a bit of a Havoc-holic anyway)

First i HATE that i had to google Nym and Havoc, i KNEW it was familiar but i had such a hard time placing it, as soon as i saw game, it all came rushing in. I feel like i should go sit in a corner with a fan dunce cap on.

But my "review" of the movie may have been a little harsh, but i think i would have enjoyed it more, had it been a reboot or had i never heard of star wars before.

Cause lets face it, if you replaced Leia with another general, replaced Han and chewie with a salty spacer and his random alien sidekick, and luke with another jedi sage, it could literally have been a reboot.

But hey its only my opinion, i loved the PT when i was younger(i still hated jar jar) and i still thoroughly enjoy them, i sat in AWE seeing them in theaters, isat in the same awe seeing them in theaters as i did seeing the OT. I cannot for the life of me reconcile some memories though, i know i saw star wars before i was 10, but i feel like i saw it in theaters for the first time which aside from the re-release of the OT:SE in 97 is literally impossible, since i was born in 84. But young pliable minds, what can you really do. I also know i owned the OT and the OT:SE1.

But 31 year old me just bombed this one, the music rolled in and i was kid again, sitting in awe, then as i read i slowly got confused and the kid in me was crushed. I think that left me a little more sour on the new movie than it should. And its funny, because i loved all the original Trek movies, the TNG movies, all the shows (Enterprise wasnt good but i watched it more than once) And i thoroughly enjoyed the two newest movies. I cant explain the radical difference in my opinions between the franchises, since it doesnt fit with most fans. Most loved new Star Wars and hated new Star Trek.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

But 31 year old me just bombed this one, the music rolled in and i was kid again, sitting in awe, then as i read i slowly got confused and the kid in me was crushed. I think that left me a little more sour on the new movie than it should. And its funny, because i loved all the original Trek movies, the TNG movies, all the shows (Enterprise wasnt good but i watched it more than once) And i thoroughly enjoyed the two newest movies. I cant explain the radical difference in my opinions between the franchises, since it doesnt fit with most fans. Most loved new Star Wars and hated new Star Trek.

To veer off topic a bit, many ST fans objected to an admitted SW fanboy screwing with the franchise, newer actors playing the old roles, CGI, pew pew, etc., claiming none of it was Star Trek, so they hated it.

I hated the two Abrams abominations as well, but because precisely they were Star Trek, in particular, rehashes of Nemesissy. Same plot, same formula as Nemesis, the other TNG movies, and the TNG-era series, especially when it came to characters getting away near-consequence free with what are court-martial offenses, and rightly so.

In particular, I despise how Abrams cheapened Kirk's cheating on the Kobayashi Maru. Instead of the life lesson learned the hard way(though his best friend's sacrifice to save his crew) that it was in The Wrath Of Khan, it turned into a "you go, Jimmy T.!" moment of "kewlness."

Now, back to The Force Awakens. I personally think it was three-plus years of dread over what JJ was going to do to the franchise, given Star Trek: Son of Nemesis, and Star Trek Into Nemesis, which made people want to see the movie, and the relief which came when it didn't turn out to be so awful, which made people like this movie.

Plus, maybe that might have been the fans' "fuck you" to George Lucas, for his "fuck you" in selling his baby to Disney for relative chump change.

That given, yeah, the Resistance seems implausable on the face of it, but you also have to take into consideration the Old Republic's dithering and hesitation when the Separatist problem was upon it. There's even hints that the Resistance is being supported by the government of the new Republic, ala Captain Harlock.

The First Order's not implausable, given that there are probably still some in the defeated Empire who want it all the way it was before the Battle of Endor, and some of those included the corporations which benefitted most from "the good old days."

What I like is that we're moving away from the Sith and maybe the Jedi as well. Because, as much as some fans would strongly disagree on this, Star Wars had never been about the Jedi or the Sith in the first place; that was just fanboy wank that, unfortunately, received more support from the EU than it should have. It is, and has always been, about the Force, and the trillions of ordinary beings who are a part of it.

That's why the OT's protagonists were a pair of scoundrels(though, technically, Lando wasn't in til TESB), a pair of beaten-up old droids, a walking carpet, a princess whose only powers were her wits, and a farmboy from some buttfuck and nowhere corner of a very large galaxy. That was the point: If these people can stand up to the evil, omnipressent Empire and help take out their mightiest weapon, anyone could.

In that vein, I sincerely hope whoever follows in Abrams' footsteps has the balls to buck the fans, and take the story to its logical conclusion in the final two movies. Part of that logical conclusion being is that Jedi dogma was wrong, and led to the fall of the old Order as much as Palpatine's manipulations ever did, and that any Force tradition outside said Jedi dogma is not a golden ticket to the dark side, just because it isn't what the Jedi would've approved of.

[LastShadow]

But 31 year old me just bombed this one, the music rolled in and i was kid again, sitting in awe, then as i read i slowly got confused and the kid in me was crushed. I think that left me a little more sour on the new movie than it should. And its funny, because i loved all the original Trek movies, the TNG movies, all the shows (Enterprise wasnt good but i watched it more than once) And i thoroughly enjoyed the two newest movies. I cant explain the radical difference in my opinions between the franchises, since it doesnt fit with most fans. Most loved new Star Wars and hated new Star Trek.

To veer off topic a bit, many ST fans objected to an admitted SW fanboy screwing with the franchise, newer actors playing the old roles, CGI, pew pew, etc., claiming none of it was Star Trek, so they hated it.

I hated the two Abrams abominations as well, but because precisely they were Star Trek, in particular, rehashes of Nemesissy. Same plot, same formula as Nemesis, the other TNG movies, and the TNG-era series, especially when it came to characters getting away near-consequence free with what are court-martial offenses, and rightly so.

In particular, I despise how Abrams cheapened Kirk's cheating on the Kobayashi Maru. Instead of the life lesson learned the hard way(though his best friend's sacrifice to save his crew) that it was in The Wrath Of Khan, it turned into a "you go, Jimmy T.!" moment of "kewlness."

Now, back to The Force Awakens. I personally think it was three-plus years of dread over what JJ was going to do to the franchise, given Star Trek: Son of Nemesis, and Star Trek Into Nemesis, which made people want to see the movie, and the relief which came when it didn't turn out to be so awful, which made people like this movie.

Plus, maybe that might have been the fans' "fuck you" to George Lucas, for his "fuck you" in selling his baby to Disney for relative chump change.

That given, yeah, the Resistance seems implausable on the face of it, but you also have to take into consideration the Old Republic's dithering and hesitation when the Separatist problem was upon it. There's even hints that the Resistance is being supported by the government of the new Republic, ala Captain Harlock.

The First Order's not implausable, given that there are probably still some in the defeated Empire who want it all the way it was before the Battle of Endor, and some of those included the corporations which benefitted most from "the good old days."

What I like is that we're moving away from the Sith and maybe the Jedi as well. Because, as much as some fans would strongly disagree on this, Star Wars had never been about the Jedi or the Sith in the first place; that was just fanboy wank that, unfortunately, received more support from the EU than it should have. It is, and has always been, about the Force, and the trillions of ordinary beings who are a part of it.

That's why the OT's protagonists were a pair of scoundrels(though, technically, Lando wasn't in til TESB), a pair of beaten-up old droids, a walking carpet, a princess whose only powers were her wits, and a farmboy from some buttfuck and nowhere corner of a very large galaxy. That was the point: If these people can stand up to the evil, omnipressent Empire and help take out their mightiest weapon, anyone could.

In that vein, I sincerely hope whoever follows in Abrams' footsteps has the balls to buck the fans, and take the story to its logical conclusion in the final two movies. Part of that logical conclusion being is that Jedi dogma was wrong, and led to the fall of the old Order as much as Palpatine's manipulations ever did, and that any Force tradition outside said Jedi dogma is not a golden ticket to the dark side, just because it isn't what the Jedi would've approved of.

In most ways I agree with you, it came to a lot of that for most people. I think the point that I turned against the franchise was when they took the nuclear option on the EU, since after the OT it held my favorite stories, characters I grew to know and even, in a sense, care about the well being of to a point.

As far as J.J. Abrams I felt that if he borked it up I would just call him Jar Jar Abrams till the end of time and be done with it. I think he did the two franchises backwards, too much pew in Star Trek, and to much touchy feely behind the scenes in Star Wars, mainly because the OT had some action but the action was spooled out, which was good, but the PT had more and on a far grander scale. I felt I would have preferred the pacing of the novels better, slow buildup followed by increasing action, much like the OT's kind of were. But this was more of a roller coaster. Up and down rather frequently. I felt the end battle was less a crescendo and finish to the movie, than it was just another random battle scene.

In the novels, the empire always had someone coming out of the woodwork to try and either carve out their own empire, make the empire great again, and then finally the imperial remnant just settled for being mostly left alone and doing its own fairly peaceful thing. I just felt a superweapon was too ballsy, not to mention it was 10x more OP than the the original Death stars put together. Shoot, Starkiller base was more powerful than every imperial superweapon ever created combined, except the Suncrusher.

And yes the Jedi are a little over played, but honestly, they are going to play them up just as much in this one. Next movie Rey is going to get trained by Luke, probably fight Kylo at some point, and then in the third movie Leia is going to turn him back to the light side. Mark my words.

But in the end we will see what comes next, though I am definitely waiting for reviews of the next movie, preferably honest ones instead of hyped up ones or ones from critics that don't know Sci Fi, before I see the next one. Shoot I may not even watch anymore of the new genre of Star Wars. And I have been a huge fan since like 8.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

The EU had some good stories, but, honestly, it had become too much, too confusing, too contradictory, and way too many arguments over whether this bit or that bit or that other bit was canon, and it just ended up a big mess. Lucas(the company, as well as the man) realized this, which was probably why they comissioned the ICS books, as a way of trying to straighten things out, but, the decision to scrap the EU was inevitable in the end, and Lucas' departure and the new owners merely provided the opportunity.

Lucas and his company certainly had good intentions in canonizing the EU for a creative resource mine for the movies, and it's worked out that way some of the time, and the new policy doesn't change the EU from being mined for future movie/book/TV series ideas, it just changes the status from canon to quasi-canon at best.

Naturally, when the new canon takes off, there's no guarantee they won't run into this problem ten, twenty years down the road, and every guarantee that they most likely will, but, you do what you can.

[K. A. Pital]

Disney wants to milk SW for cash forever. None of us would live to see the very last SW film unless Bob Iger's company doesn't die in a way that leaves no possibility to make further sequels and spin-offs.

[Iroscato]

Third Trilogy. Start numbering that shit and future-proof it for when the Fourth Trilogy starts rolling.

[Anacronian]

http://www.slashfilm.com/leia-hugging-r ... e-awakens/

Kinda funny - I just figured it was another slight by Leia towards Chewie like when he didn't get a medal after DS1.

p.s i am joking.

[The Romulan Republic]

http://www.slashfilm.com/leia-hugging-r ... e-awakens/

Kinda funny - I just figured it was another slight by Leia towards Chewie like when he didn't get a medal after DS1.

p.s i am joking.

I believe Steven Colbert is interviewing Abrams tonight. I wonder if they'll discuss it.

[Deathstalker]

We all know why the name "Ben" was chosen for Han and Leia's son. It references Obi-wan, a Jedi hero and Luke's mentor and is easy for the audience to make the connection. Am I the only one who thinks that "Bail" would have been a more appropriate name? Leia never really met Obi-wan in person, and yes I know he was there at her birth and conveniently she was there at his death, but she never really knew him. Han knew him for a few hours and I'm sure he knew what Obi-wan meant to Luke, it wasn't that a big deal to Han. "Anakin" is out for a obvious reasons. That leaves Leia's adoptive father, the man who raised her from birth and helped shape her future. Naming her son after his non mass murdering grandfather would have been an appropriate honor. Oh well, rant over.

[The Romulan Republic]

Bail would have been a good name, now I think of it.

On the other hand, its not unheard of someone to name their child after a famous historical figure, which Obi-wan is.

[Gandalf]

Obi-Wan was also the one who brought Han and Luke to Leia in the first place, while setting Luke up to become the great Jedi knight who redeemed their father and helped kill the Emperor. While often at arm's length, Obi-Wan's had a pretty profound influence on the Skywalkers.

[Vympel]

The ships and weapons. FFS, WHY. The new X-wings, at first i was leery, but in the comics and novels those are basically XJ type X-wings, so i let them slide. But the TIE fighters? WTF was going on with those, who though making an unshielded fighter a two seater? Are First Order pilots so bad they cannot fly AND shoot?

First Order TIE Fighters aren't unshielded. TIE/sf Fighters (the two-seater variants) are 'special forces' and have an additional belly turret which is controlled by the gunner, and stronger shields than regular TIEs.

What the hell was with that shuttle? I get it was designed loosely(very loosely) on the lambda shuttles from the OT, but what on earth was with those wing things, sure it looked cool enough but the design really made no logical sense. Then you get to the new star destroyer, almost no complaints, looks like a star destroyer but shiny and new, im OK with it, but WTF was that huge gun? Did it fire some type of weird hyper reactive super maneuverable missile? Did it fire some weird tracking lasers?

It was a missile launcher. There's nothing weird about it, we've seen them before in the prequels multiple times.

Ground type weapons. Why do blasters suddenly now shoot like chewies bowcaster is described to shoot in the novels? They function like nothing we saw in anything previously, not in the PT or the OT or TCW, like where did that come from? Also how does han fire chewies bowcaster TWICE without handing it to chewie? The whole point behind the damn thing was it was a wookies weapon, they built them and it took a wookies strength to recock it, granted that was mostly established in the novels, but really what other reason is there for it to look like that? they turned it into a fancy blaster, that kind of annoyed me. Spinny Tonfa, immune to lightsabers thing was interesting though.

What are you talking about? Blasters act exactly the same as they've always been. Who cares what the EU novels say about Wookie bowcasters, they're not canon. Nothing in the movies says anything about their being only able to be used by Wookies.

[LastShadow]

The ships and weapons. FFS, WHY. The new X-wings, at first i was leery, but in the comics and novels those are basically XJ type X-wings, so i let them slide. But the TIE fighters? WTF was going on with those, who though making an unshielded fighter a two seater? Are First Order pilots so bad they cannot fly AND shoot?

First Order TIE Fighters aren't unshielded. TIE/sf Fighters (the two-seater variants) are 'special forces' and have an additional belly turret which is controlled by the gunner, and stronger shields than regular TIEs.

What the hell was with that shuttle? I get it was designed loosely(very loosely) on the lambda shuttles from the OT, but what on earth was with those wing things, sure it looked cool enough but the design really made no logical sense. Then you get to the new star destroyer, almost no complaints, looks like a star destroyer but shiny and new, im OK with it, but WTF was that huge gun? Did it fire some type of weird hyper reactive super maneuverable missile? Did it fire some weird tracking lasers?

It was a missile launcher. There's nothing weird about it, we've seen them before in the prequels multiple times.

Ground type weapons. Why do blasters suddenly now shoot like chewies bowcaster is described to shoot in the novels? They function like nothing we saw in anything previously, not in the PT or the OT or TCW, like where did that come from? Also how does han fire chewies bowcaster TWICE without handing it to chewie? The whole point behind the damn thing was it was a wookies weapon, they built them and it took a wookies strength to recock it, granted that was mostly established in the novels, but really what other reason is there for it to look like that? they turned it into a fancy blaster, that kind of annoyed me. Spinny Tonfa, immune to lightsabers thing was interesting though.

What are you talking about? Blasters act exactly the same as they've always been. Who cares what the EU novels say about Wookie bowcasters, they're not canon. Nothing in the movies says anything about their being only able to be used by Wookies.

1. Where did you get this information about this TIE type, and since when do regular TIE's have shields?

2. I feel like i have never seen a missile launcher, or missile act like that in any star wars movie i have ever seen, but i will re watch the prequels and see if i can find an instance of this.

3. Since when do Blasters launch people? In every other movie you get hit, you drop. If they had that much kinetic impact, you would almost never see someone fall forward. So no blasters are not as they have always been.

[Vympel]

1. Where did you get this information about this TIE type, and since when do regular TIE's have shields?

Since Episode 7 - the TIE/fo and TIE/sf are not identical to their old Imperial counterparts, they are more advanced in every way. That includes shields. The First Order values their pilot's lives more than the GE - they're not considered expendable. The information is from the Episode 7 Incredible Cross Sections.

(in addition the TIE/sf has a hyperdrive, though the TIE/fo does not)

2. I feel like i have never seen a missile launcher, or missile act like that in any star wars movie i have ever seen, but i will re watch the prequels and see if i can find an instance of this.

Watch both Jango firing at Obi-Wan in Episode 2, and the Vulture droids firing at Obi-Wan and Anakin in Episode 3 - the missiles are almost comically maneuverable and persistent in both cases. I joked back when Episode 2 came out that it was almost like a Looney Tunes cartoon - if a traffic light had appeared, the missile would likely have waited patiently.

3. Since when do Blasters launch people? In every other movie you get hit, you drop. If they had that much kinetic impact, you would almost never see someone fall forward. So no blasters are not as they have always been.

Only Chewie's bowcaster launches people - that's kind of the point, its a powerful weapon, and the movie highlights that. Other blasters in the film don't launch people.

[Galvatron]

Chewie fired two shots from his bowcaster in quick succession on Endor in ROTJ. So either he's faster than shit at recocking or his bowcaster doesn't need to be recocked between shots.

On another note, there's some damn good unused concept art here. I especially like the landed TIE fighter. I never liked that it lands on its "solar panels" like the old Kenner toy.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-War ... 18387.html

[Lord Revan]

Tbh there were "automatic" crossbows in the past (mainly in ancient china), they just weren't all that common as mechanisms that complex were expensive to make.

[Mange]

WTF was going on with those, who though making an unshielded fighter a two seater?

Nitpick: The two-seater Special Forces TIEs aren't unshielded. The (canon) TCW ICW states they are shielded.

[APlayerHater]

I recall from some incredible cross sections book or something that Chewie's bowcaster is auto-cocking for some reason.

Me? I had a few beefs with this movie.

A: I agree, the resistance is a stupid idea. What happened to Ackbar's mon calamari fleet? Now they have what looks to be 10 x wings with which to destroy an entire planet. How can you have a resistance when your faction is in control of space politics? Or is the new republic so limp wristed useless and weak after only 20 years that they just let the Knights of Ren walk all over them and kidnap children en masse to form their army?

A1: Why is the New Republic, and it's entire fleet, all stationed on some random planet somewhere I've never heard of. Shouldn't their fleet be out, I don't know, patrolling the galaxy or something? Or at least on coruscant? Can Abrams not make a movie without destroying a planet?

B: Starkiller base: Why do we need another death star? Can starkiller base move? Did they convert an entire planet into a giant gun only to be able to fire like 2 shots? Because it looked like it had totally absorbed the star at that point. So basically, there was no point in destroying it because after it had fired its second shot it would have been rendered useless anyway.

B1: How did the remnant possibly have the resources to build an entire planet into a deathstar in 20 years without anybody noticing? Is that why they didn't want the rebels finding the plans to the deathstar in ANH? Because now it seems completely rational to think that the rebels in ANH could have used the Deathstar plans to build their own Deathstar to counter the empire's Deathstar. I mean, at this point why not? Makes equal amount of sense.

B2: How are they main characters able to see the beam shot from starkiller base? Should it take thousands of years for the light to reach them? Or was Maz Kanata's base conveniently in the same solar system as the republic's home planet?

B3: Was starkiller base just a lame excuse to destroy the republic in 1 second so the empire can be in control in time for episode 8? How do you destroy the republic by blowing up one planet? Why was the fleet parked on a planet? What is going on?

C: Phasma: Boba Fett, but at least Boba Fett didn't come across as a traitor and a coward. Weren't these people supposed to have some kind of mind control mental conditioning from birth? But between TR8R, Finn and Phasma, it doesn't seem to have worked. Is this whole movie have a stealth scientologist anti-psychology message?

C1: They threaten to use clones in this movie if the stormtroopers screw up. Pause. Is there any reason they're not using clones? As I recall, the clones in the clone wars worked perfectly. They were perfectly loyal soldiers. They were programmed with secret orders for years and none of them ever spilled the beans about order 66. Sidious trusted them enough to carry out the most important part of his plan to kill the jedi so he could overthrow the republic. But no, kidnapping and brainwashing children seems to be going much better for them.

D: Finn: A janitor who remembers the layout of an entire planet. He can walk around with a lightsaber out in a warzone without getting shot. He can go toe-to-toe with a force user in a swordfight and not instantly lose, and yet is shown throughout the entire movie as being totally useless. He is soldier trained from birth, and if every stormtrooper is as much of a socially awkward, poorly trained basket case as he is that would explain a lot. He can't shoot, he can't fight, he can't fix weapons and seems to have no experience with weapons. And yet he was brought on Kylo Ren's secret mission to find this map for some reason, and he is allowed to go out into the field on missions despite having in depth technical data for the KoR's secret planet destroying base.

D1: That fight with Finn and TR8R: What is this weapon that TR8R is using? I recall him getting several hits in on Finn and Finn doesn't even notice. Is that shock prod even a weapon? That fight isn't even fair: If TR8R hits Finn, which he does, a lot, Finn isn't even fazed, and if Finn hits TR8R TR8R instantly dies. Wow, what a good fight....... . . . . . . Maybe he should have just shot Finn with a gun.

D2: Stormtrooper armor is now susceptible to poison gas attack. Um... Aren't these space suits? Why would you ruin stormtrooper armor in a throw away line, especially when using gas against stormtroopers isn't even a plot point, Rey and Finn are just panicking and about to accidentally kill themselves.

E: Kylo Ren: I found him to be potentially interesting, but everything I find interesting about him might have just been a mistake on the writer's part, and they might totally ruin him in the next movie. I assume he touched Darth Vader's helmet, had some kind of vision and assumed he had some great destiny and thought uncle Luke was holding him back or something.

E1: That whole fight with Finn and Rey made no sense. People say: Well, he'd been shot. But the one who should be shot is the fight choreographer, because at no point during the fight was he moving sluggishly, or barely staying awake, or suffering from debilitating pain or anything. He does a samurai thing and punches his own wound, but otherwise he seems to have no problem moving around. But at the same time he inexplicably barely keeps up with a janitor who has no force powers and whose only experience with a lightsaber is awkwardly hold it and walking around a battlefield like he was lost. Either show him being wounded and losing the fight that way or don't and have him win.

Here's how that fight should have gone down: Kylo Ren walks up to Finn, knocks the lightsaber out of his hand and steps on his face, then maybe picks him up with the force and slams him against a tree. Same outcome, saves you confusion and wasting 10 minutes.

Either that or have him, clearly, barely staying alive and conscious, and moving very awkwardly and sluggishly, to make be believe that Finn could stand a chance. Film is a visual medium, so show me some visuals telling me the story that Kylo Ren has been shot.

F: Rey: Now Rey was a fine character, but she is a Mary Sue. She had secret jedi training as a baby that was conveniently mind wiped, making her the best at everything. She's better at shooting a gun than Finn (trained from birth as a soldier). Given a pistol she misses once, then immediately kills every storm trooper that enters her line of sight, despite the fact I don't think she's ever held a gun before. She mind controls Daniel Craig despite not even knowing the jedi mind trick is a thing that exists. She can fix the millennium falcon and can understand both BB8 and Chewbacca, despite no character ever in the history of the series ever having been able to understand Droid speech, and only Han could ever understand Chewie. She can pilot the millennium falcon well enough to hit a tie-fighter with the main turret just by doing a backflip and having Finn pull the trigger, with the gun unable to turn, and in atmosphere on a planet with gravity. Anakin's lightsaber also literally calls out for her, and seemingly flies into her hand of its own accord despite Kylo Ren's attempts to pull it (how kylo can stop a blaster shot in mid air but can't move a 1 pound piece of metal 5 feet is beyond me. Was he out of force points? Did he need to recharge his batteries?).

You might defend Rey. You might say: Oh, well, she worked as a scrapper. Yeah? Well by that logic Steven Avery should be some kind of renaissance man savant. She has no training, none, nobody (except for bs flashbacks) in flying, shooting, hacking doors, using the force, sword fighting, stealth, and yet it's only the first movie in a trilogy and she can already outpace all the OT characters in their fields of expertise. Just look how many times Luke and Han totally miss in the ANH shootout scenes on foot and in the scene where they are using the turrets to fend off the TIE Fighters tailing them.

And if Rey did have secret training then wow. Looks like Luke trained a 5 year old better than his star pupil Kylo Ren. No wonder Kylo turned to evil.

G: Maz Kanata: Yoda, except even older(Unless she's not 'literally' 1000 years old like they say in the movie) and wiser(?) because she doesn't have a speech impediment. Where did she get Anakin's lightsaber? Did she just find it floating around Bespin? How does she have Anakin's podracing flag at her base? Is she a huge Anakin fangirl?

H: That one spy in Maz Kanata's bar: Could you dress more like an obviously evil spy? Why does the empire even have a spy at this bar?

I: Poe Dameron: Seems fine. The scenes with him and Finn were fun.

I1: Do TIE fighters not have keys? You can just climb into one, boot it up, and the only thing stopping you from just leaving is if you forget to detach the fuel line? Star Wars wasn't smart science fiction but it was rarely ever stupid enough to insult my intelligence.

Come to think of it, the millennium falcon didn't have a key either. And they left the door wide open while it was just sitting there. You'd think one of these slaves working for bread rations on this planet could just walk in, start it up, and go literally anywhere. Go to Tatooine. Go anywhere. The new republic is so great that being a slave is now worse than ever.

J: Snoke: Why would you hire Andy Serkis to play a character who doesn't move? Does Serkis have to play your CG character for you to get any street cred?

J1: And here I thought Darth Vader's destiny to bring balance to the force and destroy evil had any meaning whatsoever. Thanks for making the prequels noncanon, JJ. No, really. Thank you.

[Gandalf]

D1: That fight with Finn and TR8R: What is this weapon that TR8R is using? I recall him getting several hits in on Finn and Finn doesn't even notice. Is that shock prod even a weapon? That fight isn't even fair: If TR8R hits Finn, which he does, a lot, Finn isn't even fazed, and if Finn hits TR8R TR8R instantly dies. Wow, what a good fight....... . . . . . . Maybe he should have just shot Finn with a gun.

I thought in the opening crawl they mentioned that they were trying to find Luke Skywalker. As a result, weapon that stands up to lightsabres would be pretty sweet, because maybe it could let them capture him.

D2: Stormtrooper armor is now susceptible to poison gas attack. Um... Aren't these space suits? Why would you ruin stormtrooper armor in a throw away line, especially when using gas against stormtroopers isn't even a plot point, Rey and Finn are just panicking and about to accidentally kill themselves.

They don't have the Imperial budget any more, so apparently they can't get the apparently magical OT armour. All the money went to death laser planet.

[APlayerHater]

To quote myself from the other thread: "Maybe that's the problem: The prod was on the default 'incapacitate old man' setting."

[LastShadow]

To quote myself from the other thread: "Maybe that's the problem: The prod was on the default 'incapacitate old man' setting."

Maybe they forgot to take it off "Demo" mode?