Holy $#!+: they fixed the saber clash (ROTJ Blu-Ray)

[Darksider]

yeah that does tend to become an issue when you're seeing it for the hundredth time. The last time I saw it I found I could recite practically every line as it happened. That tends to suck the enjoyment out of a movie. Probably why I haven't watched the OT in a couple of years.

[Vympel]

Seriously, I have to wonder if you guys are just being tongue in cheek or are honestly being that bloody stupid to think Hayden Chirstensen with a burnt face and perfect hair clumsily photoshopped over Sebastian Shaw's face in RotJ could ever possibly be real. Come the fuck on.

[Darksider]

Honestly, that BigNO inserted into ROTJ has shaken my confidence in Lucas a bit. I've always been quick to defend him, and I actually liked the prequels, but turning the emotional climax of ROTJ into a fucking joke is the last straw.

[DaveJB]

What's worse is that it makes Palpatine look like a complete idiot as well. In the previous edits, Vader's betrayal of the Emperor came out of the blue, but this time Vader's first "No!" practically announces his disapproval of what's going on, and Palpatine's reaction is effectively "That's nice, Vader. Now, you just wait there while I finish barbecuing your son alive."

[Aniron]

Honestly, that BigNO inserted into ROTJ has shaken my confidence in Lucas a bit. I've always been quick to defend him, and I actually liked the prequels, but turning the emotional climax of ROTJ into a fucking joke is the last straw.

How is it a joke? It makes perfect thematic sense when the PT is put into context: Vader's emotional response to Padme being dead. So, the only family he knows he has is about to die, and that stirs up feelings of Padme.

[Elfdart]

The thing is that many people bitch about the changes but do not look at them in terms of the context of the PT: using the terrible Hayden Christensen in Jedi makes sense; putting in CGI animals in ANH makes sense given how Tatooine is shown in TPM; the "No" audio addition makes thematic sense given that Vader screams it when learning that Padme dies (I don't mind it). Now, there are changes that don't have anything to do with the PT, like the Ewoks blinking, but I think they look fine.

For me it's never been about the changes in and of themselves, but the piss-poor execution. I've had a dislike for much of Lucas' tinkering since the mid-1980s when extra dialog was added to ANH (when C3P0 explains how to shut off the tractor beam). Is the dialog itself bad? No, but since it sounds like it was recorded in a different place and time (no doubt it was) it sticks out like a sore thumb. The new sound effects are even worse. I don't mind adding new stuff in the background as long as it stays in the background. When chattering Jawas take over the Mos Eisely scene, or Leia's blaster sounds like Dirty Harry's pistol, or Luke screams or Vader shouts "Nooooooo!" it sounds like a clumsy overdub because that's what it is.

The extra ships and creatures in Mos Eisely, and the new dogfight footage look out of place because they were shot with newer cameras with clearer focus, and starker light and Star Wars was shot with old VistaVision cameras and mostly in soft light, which was all the rage in the 1970s. The new shots of Vader's ship in TESB are even more distracting because not only is the new footage clearer, but the ship changes color (and don't get me started on splicing in footage from ROTJ at the end of TESB). My other beef with the scene is that it chops up the pacing of the original ending, which was flawless.

Does any of this "ruin" the film? Of course not, but it does make it less likely that I'll buy it since I value pacing and continuity over a prettier picture. I have both the CBS/Fox LDs as well as the 1995/96 ones ripped to DVD. I even have home made edits of ANH and TESB a friend of mine put together for me. Until Lucasfilm puts out a version as good as any of those, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

[Vympel]

or Leia's blaster sounds like Dirty Harry's pistol, or Luke screams or Vader shouts "Nooooooo!" it sounds like a clumsy overdub because that's what it is.

My memory may be failing me, but I thought that in the original film Leia's gun sounded like Dirty Harry's .44, and they changed that for the Special Edition?

Agree with you 100% on the clumsy execution of the changes. The splicing in of unused footage from RotJ during TESB is really, really bothersome, and I just don't understand how he thinks stuff like this is a necessary change.

And I can't help but feel Vader's Nooooo is lifted from an alternate take of the scene in RotS.

EDIT:-

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5407 ... 000529.png

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8295 ... 000523.png

Shit, that looks good. Just look at the detail visible on the Stormtrooper's E-11 in that shot.

God I wish they'd just release the original films on Blu-Ray.

DOUBLE EDIT:-

Unfortunately, this still from TPM looks terrible, and is a classic example of how too much DNR scrubbing for blu-ray can make real people look like they're made of clay by annihilating all fine detail:-

http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/pq2rwwf6/103.png

This is just one image though, so I wouldn't use it as a judge of TPM in totality:-

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5184 ... enace3.png

A far superior shot.

Oh, wow.

CGI Yoda

AotC looks great

[Aniron]

AOTC and RotS should look outstanding seeing as how they were made using a digital camera. The only downside is that they were only recorded at 1080p, if I remember correctly, so if a new format comes out in the future, shit will be upscaled.

More screens from TPM.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/7a78af148260817
http://www.imagebam.com/image/3ee9bd148260823
http://www.imagebam.com/image/830d59148260832

http://www.imagebam.com/image/4384ac148262439
http://www.imagebam.com/image/bd4592148262450
http://www.imagebam.com/image/5839a3148262456
http://www.imagebam.com/image/a3feb1148262470

I'm going to go ahead and continue to marvel at people saying DVDs are still "good enough" when there's better shit out there.

[Aniron]

From RotS:

http://www.imagebam.com/image/d09829148263269
http://www.imagebam.com/image/182669148263280
http://www.imagebam.com/image/713d13148263286
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e13276148263292
http://www.imagebam.com/image/2f2299148263312
http://www.imagebam.com/image/67e395148263318
http://www.imagebam.com/image/65f1ad148263328
http://www.imagebam.com/image/6ea2af148263342
http://www.imagebam.com/image/f07bae148263347
http://www.imagebam.com/image/5b276f148263356

[Darth Tedious]

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8295 ... 000523.png
Shit, that looks good. Just look at the detail visible on the Stormtrooper's E-11 in that shot.

Sweet! That's the sort of thing I want to see (being into costuming).

Look at the big piece of white gaffer tape on the inside of that bicep! I love it!

[Vympel]

Wow, never noticed that before. Awesome detail.

[Anguirus]

I'm going to go ahead and continue to marvel at people saying DVDs are still "good enough" when there's better shit out there.

Want to buy it for me? :lol

[Batman]

To elaborate on what Anguirus said, you're welcome to pay for providing me with a player and screen (and, of course, the movies) that let me notice the difference. You aren't? Then I'm very much afraid I'm sticking with my 20in TV and ordinary (but region-code switchable) DVD player.

[Darth Tedious]

I still have the image in my head of people ten years ago, trying to watch DVDs and giving up in disgust: "This shit is unwatchable! Im just not going to bother with movies until there's a better way!"

[Stark]

The lol of people denying the quality differnce on poverty grounds is hilarious. You don't need to spend money to 'notice' the obvious difference in screencaps, even if the difference is more striking on a proper TV. Some site has a comparison of caps from various Alien releases and the BD, and it's astonishing how blurry and washed out all the DVDs were. Cost to 'notice': zero. There sure are some fucked-up BD releases, but it's trivial to find out about them and avoid them.

Next we'll hear about how black and white 50hz is 'good enough' because... once... guys... watched it? And didn't hate it?

[Aniron]

I'm going to go ahead and continue to marvel at people saying DVDs are still "good enough" when there's better shit out there.

Want to buy it for me? :lol

To elaborate on what Anguirus said, you're welcome to pay for providing me with a player and screen (and, of course, the movies) that let me notice the difference. You aren't? Then I'm very much afraid I'm sticking with my 20in TV and ordinary (but region-code switchable) DVD player.

If you have no vested interest in the Blu-ray set, why are you posting again?

The lol of people denying the quality differnce on poverty grounds is hilarious. You don't need to spend money to 'notice' the obvious difference in screencaps, even if the difference is more striking on a proper TV. Some site has a comparison of caps from various Alien releases and the BD, and it's astonishing how blurry and washed out all the DVDs were. Cost to 'notice': zero. There sure are some fucked-up BD releases, but it's trivial to find out about them and avoid them.

Next we'll hear about how black and white 50hz is 'good enough' because... once... guys... watched it? And didn't hate it?

The comparisons between the DVD releases and the newly-remastered Scarface alone should shut these idiots up.

[Agent Sorchus]

I got to say that the CGI Yoda stands out as being less than the rest in terms of quality. It isn't him, but his clothing, it lacks the same quality that the real cloth of the rest of the characters have and doesn't have any seams and marks of having been made by real people (NOT that sci fi has to be realistic and look like it could have been made nowadays).

It stands out though it is a decent model in all other ways, and will probably look good in motion. I don't even think they could have done a better job, but thought it worth noting that this high quality version is still beyond realistic CGI.

[Stark]

Higher fidelity sources make CGI harder, not easier.

Aniron, the Scarface comparison of the night shot is amazing. They did a great job increasing clarity and reducing noise - and the DVD shots have the same 'shot through grease' appearnce the Alien ones did; blurry, noisy, and overall darker and lower-contrast than the original (or the BD).

[Elfdart]

or Leia's blaster sounds like Dirty Harry's pistol, or Luke screams or Vader shouts "Nooooooo!" it sounds like a clumsy overdub because that's what it is.

My memory may be failing me, but I thought that in the original film Leia's gun sounded like Dirty Harry's .44, and they changed that for the Special Edition?

In the SE version in 1997, during the shootout in the chasm, the stormtrooper carbines made the typical PEW-PEW-PEW sound except the one Leia was holding in closeups. It sounded like Dirty Harry's Magnum revolver in Sudden Impact:



There's always been inconsistency in the SW sound effects, such as Han's pistol -for no discernible reason- sounding like one of the guns from an AT-AT when he attempts to shoot Vader. But Dirty Leia was enough to be distracting.

Agree with you 100% on the clumsy execution of the changes. The splicing in of unused footage from RotJ during TESB is really, really bothersome, and I just don't understand how he thinks stuff like this is a necessary change.

Apparently it's a sop to stupid people who think it's a Plot Hole that Vader is on Cloud City, then at his ship even though he says "Bring my shuttle". Now he tells them to order his ship to get ready for his return, you see him boarding the shuttle, then you see the shuttle flying to the warship, then to make absolutely sure that there's no confusion, you see him exiting the shuttle on board the star destroyer. Oh, and they chop up the music track Hyperspace (one of the best in my opinion) and the new footage doesn't match, yadda yadda yadda...

They could have accomplished the same thing if they had left the scenes and dialog as-is ("Bring my shuttle") and only included a few seconds of the shuttle flying. Even the people who really have gone Full Retard would have been able to figure out that Vader flew from Bespin to his ship on a shuttle.

EDIT:-

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5407 ... 000529.png

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8295 ... 000523.png

Shit, that looks good. Just look at the detail visible on the Stormtrooper's E-11 in that shot.

God I wish they'd just release the original films on Blu-Ray.

I'm not sure I want that much detail. The 2006 DVDs are clear enough that you can tell apart different fabrics in the extras. As much as I liked the IMAX cut of AOTC, I don't really want to see Ewan MacGregor's pores or the brushstrokes where the actors' makeup was applied.

[Vympel]

In the SE version in 1997, during the shootout in the chasm, the stormtrooper carbines made the typical PEW-PEW-PEW sound except the one Leia was holding in closeups. It sounded like Dirty Harry's Magnum revolver in Sudden Impact:

Ah ok, so they got rid of it come 2004 (the 2006 DVDs are the same as this, just different packaging since the main point was releasing a meh DVD version of the unaltered films).

I'm not sure I want that much detail. The 2006 DVDs are clear enough that you can tell apart different fabrics in the extras. As much as I liked the IMAX cut of AOTC, I don't really want to see Ewan MacGregor's pores or the brushstrokes where the actors' makeup was applied.

LOL - well that's not something I've noticed in other blu-rays I've got, but if you noticed it on IMAX ... hmmm.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get these. It seems more positive than negative, and the list of extras is damn impressive. The deleted scenes list alone ... wow. I'll get over the Nooooo ...

[Guardsman Bass]

EDIT:-

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5407 ... 000529.png

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8295 ... 000523.png

Shit, that looks good. Just look at the detail visible on the Stormtrooper's E-11 in that shot.

God I wish they'd just release the original films on Blu-Ray.

Good stuff. Vader's eye pieces are really reflective - I think you can see a guy holding a camera in the reflection.

[Stark]

If you hate the additions, it's not really that hard to remove them. I once replaced an entire movie audio track because I didn't like the dub but loved the BD quality.

[Connor MacLeod]

In the SE version in 1997, during the shootout in the chasm, the stormtrooper carbines made the typical PEW-PEW-PEW sound except the one Leia was holding in closeups. It sounded like Dirty Harry's Magnum revolver in Sudden Impact:

*snip vid*

There's always been inconsistency in the SW sound effects, such as Han's pistol -for no discernible reason- sounding like one of the guns from an AT-AT when he attempts to shoot Vader. But Dirty Leia was enough to be distracting.

You think that's bad? Han's gun (and various other blasters) have ejected casings from time to time in the OT and in frame by frame you can always see them fly out (the one I most often like to note is when Han fires on Vader on Cloud city in TESB. Its my favorite because Han's such a badass shot he's shooting with his eyes closed, and the bolts come out of the gun after it has started rising from the recoil - eg off axis)

I wonder if they'll fix that

[Darth Tedious]

Next we'll hear about how black and white 50hz is 'good enough' because... once... guys... watched it? And didn't hate it?

Ah, but it was, until people saw the wonder of colour!* Even then, many people didn't buy colour sets until much later (often, funnily enough, because they didn't want to pay for them- much like people right now with Blu-Ray).

Just like VHS was fine**, until people discovered these cool DVD thingys that you didn't need to rewind...

It just happens at this point in time Blu-Ray hasn't completely caught on yet.



*- Of course, if you want to watch any pre-colour movies, you still tend to be watching them in b&w anyway.

**- I seem to remember a guy saying recently that he still only had Star Wars on VHS, with no plans to ugrade...

[Executor32]

Good stuff. Vader's eye pieces are really reflective - I think you can see a guy holding a camera in the reflection.