New Redletter Media video about Lucas

[Galvatron]

For the record, this is what Wookieepedia says about the whole thing:

Once in power, Queen Amidala opened negotiations with the Trade Federation. However the Federation was scandalized by Naboo's resistance to its authority, which coincided with a Galactic Republic Senate tax on interstellar trade. Both actions were perceived by Federation leadership as a threat to their commercial interests and power. The Federation answered with a military blockade of Naboo, with the aim of forcing Naboo into subservience and to hopefully intimidate the Senate into repealing the taxation measure.

I didn't see a citation so it may just be fanon bullshit.

[Anguirus]

^ Wasn't there a book, Cloak of Deception, that delves into all that Republic politics stuff? Didn't read it but it seemed well-received. Only thing I know about it is that Valorum meets with an accident courtesy of Sidious before AotC.

EDIT: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cloak_of_deception

For whatever it is worth to anyone, sounds like in "canon" the TF militarized to protect its shipping lanes and Palpatine (in his public persona) imposed a tax on those lanes as a result. Sidious went to the TF heads and convinced them that invading Naboo would intimidate Palpatine and the Republic into backing down. What seems to be missing from the article (perhaps not from the book itself) is any indication why blockading a planet in order to say "fuck that one guy who's a Senator from there" could possibly be considered "legal"!

Oh, and I remembered the Valorum thing from a later Luceno book.

[Galvatron]

BTW, does anyone really think that a Senate controlled by crony capitalist fucktards would levy new taxes on the Trade Federation? It makes more sense to me that they're taking a page out of the GOP handbook and taxing the poor/middle-class worlds of the outer rim instead of their rich buddies in the core.

[Knife]

BTW, does anyone really think that a Senate controlled by crony capitalist fucktards would levy new taxes on the Trade Federation? It makes more sense to me that they're taking a page out of the GOP handbook and taxing the poor/middle-class worlds of the outer rim instead of their rich buddies in the core.

I figured it was Sidious using Jedi mind fucks and good old backroom maneuvering to get a situation he could take advantage of.

[Crateria]

What I do like about it though is how it puts Palpatine in there, setting shit up. That can kinda sorta explain Naboo, and plays to the idea that he's a long term planner moving shit into position.

Do you think Palpatine came up with the plans for taking over the Republic? Or was Darth Plagueis the original schemer, and Sidious merely continued the plan?

[Crateria]

Moreover, I wouldn't buy someone making a big plan and it actually working without adjustment on the fly. If the original planner is carrying it out, he can adapt to new situations too.

So, it's gotta be Palpatine both in and out of universe. He might have gotten the idea from his evil master, that training might have prepared him for the horses he'd decapitate along the way, but it needs to be him actually wanting it for himself and making it happen.

Probably. Plagueis probably tried making an earlier plan (not complete of course, just the first steps or so) and then was killed by Sidious. Sidious then picks up where Plagueis left and tries what he can and adjusts where needed via Sith Mind Trick (You don't need to see my identification... ) and somehow getting even more support than just through the Dark Side.

[Galvatron]

I figure the tax was always Palpatine's idea. He, as Sidious, would have gotten it passed through the Senate. Then, as Palpatine, he publicly denounced it on Naboo''s behalf.

[Anguirus]

BTW, does anyone really think that a Senate controlled by crony capitalist fucktards would levy new taxes on the Trade Federation?

According to Lucas' audio commentary on TPM IIRC, the Trade Federation represents capitalism and fat cat bastardry. So it always made sense to me that they were fighting for low taxes. My superficial/fanboy reading of the situation in the movie was always that Naboo was struggling to make the Trade Federation pay their fair share, and succeeded because their moral authority in the Senate far outstripped their true power and influence. So then the TradeFeds resorted to bully tactics. Didn't really think more about it than that, till I got to this site of course. :p

[VF5SS]

So I re-watched the movie recently so can someone explain why they didn't send at least six Jedi to stop Ray Park

With six you could be like, two to help the Rebels Naboo and four to stop Ray Park. It's not like he's potentially one of your most hated enemy from centuries ago. Or maybe if they just started shooting him as soon as he opened the door. Maybe use some flash bangs or stun guns. Maybe in addition to those rebreathers, the Jedi have some light grenades.

We all rag on Star Trek for being less equipped than a modern military :d

The Jedi in the forest would have been pretty screwed if those ineffectual droid flyers had regular guns or grenade launchers :3

Also why did they bring Kidakin with them to a potential war zone? Did the Force tell them he would engage in hijinks and take out the droid doughnut? It's a good thing they couldn't do anything about an enemy ship in their hangar like at the beginning of the movie.

maybe it's all part of Palpatine's plan. He is a wizard after all.

also did anyone notice that Naboo pilots totally wear bathrobes

guess it's cold in space

[Galvatron]

"Go with the Queen to Naboo and discover the identity of the dark warrior. That is the clue we need to unravel this mystery of the Sith."

I guess Mace Windu preferred to delegate the menial tasks. After all, he had other important things to deal with, like sitting around the Jedi temple and being a judgmental, condescending dick. It's not like the return of the Sith was a big deal, right?

[Elfdart]

The bigger words make all the difference. All that we know is that Trade routes to outlying systems are being taxed. Routes not companies, implying the taxes apply to everyone in the outer system. SO, We know the where (outlying systems) but we don't know the who/what is doing/being taxing.

Are you really this fucking stupid?

As the name of the Trade Federation should make clear to anyone who is NOT "special needs", they engage in trade (the buying and selling of goods, in case you're planning to ask an equally fucktarded question). How do they move freight in the Star Wars universe? By placing it on ships and hauling it through space. A tax on trade routes means that those who are hauling freight have to pay a tax if they use those routes -like a truck driver having to pay tolls to use certain roads. Obviously, the Trade Federation are the ones being inconvenienced by a tax on the trade routes.

But Lucas, realizing that some of his audience might be slow, had Palpatine say that the Senate passed the tax on trade routes. Unfortunately, he overestimated the intelligence of some of the people watching his movie. But then, how could he be expected to custom-tailor his movie for viewers who are Full Retard?

The Galactic Republic taxing the fed? Seems unlikely since the TF has the senate in its pocket and holding a planet hostage with a blockage seems like an illegal reaction to not wanting to fill out an intergalactic w9. But the blockade is legal or so we are told in the first scene of the movie. So since when is refusing to pay taxes and holding a planet hostage "perfectly legal"?

Who said it was legal? Even the arch-villain Sidious said he would "make it legal".

You know there's a difference between what a TRADE Federation is and what a TRADE route is, right? Just because you use caps on TRADE doesn't change that.

Right, just like there's a difference between a commercial airline and commercial air routes. So a movie with an airline being pissed off about a tax on air routes that affect that airline needs more than a few sentences in a movie to explain, right?

You really are a moron.

I don't see what the invasion gets them other than in deep shit with the senate. Which they ended up being in and had to pretend they didn't take over a planet. Good luck with that one idiots. Hurry put everything back were you found it. Shit they're coming hide it under camp 4!

Why, it would be like a greedy OIL company being pissed about a tax on OIL shipments! What bullshit!

Fucks, you know it! Remember that time BP was all pissed about the taxes on offshore drilling so they surrounded Hawaii with a blockade in protest? Everyone was like, it's their legal right to block an outlying system. It was weird that they didn't go the lobbyist route but we all know the annexing of an island is the wiser choice.

Because BP would last about 30 seconds against the US Navy. A closer analogy would be when United Fruit Company hired mercenaries to overthrow the government of Guatemala because the Arbenz government taxed the company's holdings. Or you could look up the East India Tea Company and what it did to India.

Just because you and Red Letter Moron's other fluffers are mindnumbingly stupid doesn't mean everyone else who watched the movie is.

[Galvatron]

Who said it was legal? Even the arch-villain Sidious said he would "make it legal".

Qui-Gon Jinn: Captain.
Radiant VII captain: Yes, sir?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Tell them we wish to board at once.
Radiant VII captain: [to communication device] With all due respect, the ambassadors for the Supreme Chancellor wish to board immediately.
Nute Gunray: [on view screen] Yes, of course. As you know, our blockade is perfectly legal and we'd be happy to receive the ambassadors.

[Elfdart]

So I'm playing the RLM TPM video again in the background while doing some other stuff.

"We have to warn the Naboo".... wouldn't the Naboo see this big ass fucking ships landing before they land?

They must not be warning the Naboo about the army... that's fucking obvious. Unless the Naboo are blind or something. So, what the hell were they warning them about? I think the movie actually said it was about the invasion. edit: yeah it did

The TF jammed all communications, so maybe they jammed the planet's sensors, too. Not that it matters, since Qui-Gon had a good reason to warn the Naboo: His premonition that Gunray would eventually kill Amidala if they caught her.

Retarded.

You certainly are.

edit: "Maybe the Naboo just did some kind of horrific act against the trade federation and they just want to get some revenge" - apparently, that is the canon explanation!

Does it matter? The point, which Heathcliff's cockgoblins (yes, this means YOU!) don't get is that whatever beef the TF might have against Naboo is being exploited by Sidious to get them to start a war that he will benefit from. This wouldn't change one iota if their grievance was that the Queen insulted Gunray, that Naboo was smuggling, that the TF was just looking to slap around someone in frustration, or something to do with taxes. To be hung up on it makes you an asshole.

[Elfdart]

Who said it was legal? Even the arch-villain Sidious said he would "make it legal".

Qui-Gon Jinn: Captain.
Radiant VII captain: Yes, sir?
Qui-Gon Jinn: Tell them we wish to board at once.
Radiant VII captain: [to communication device] With all due respect, the ambassadors for the Supreme Chancellor wish to board immediately.
Nute Gunray: [on view screen] Yes, of course. As you know, our blockade is perfectly legal and we'd be happy to receive the ambassadors.

Because Gunray is going to confess to the chancellor's reps that he's doing something illegal, right?

For fuck's sake, every corporate or government thug -even the ones caught red-handed- will deny any wrongdoing.

[Elfdart]

Because Gunray is going to confess to the chancellor's reps that he's doing something illegal, right?

AS YOU KNOW

Everybody knew about the blockade. Nobody said it was illegal.

So that's why Valorum sent his representatives to tell the TF to back off.

Nobody called for action to stop it.

Aside from Valorum. Oh, and Naboo.

Have you actually seen the movie?

Yes, but unlike you I didn't watch with my head up Stoklassa's ass.

[Stark]

Well what does it say about sending mediators that can read your mind and control people?

[Elfdart]

The TF jammed all communications, so maybe they jammed the planet's sensors, too.

Star Wars tech is fucking useless.

Says the disgruntled Trekkie.

Does it matter?

Yes. The point, which Lucas cockgoblins (yes, that means YOU!) don't get is that whatever beef the TF might have had against Naboo is essential to driving the plot, so a good writer would have actually worked it out so his characters would act consistently. He might even say something, anything, about it in the movie so the audience gets it too.

The TF are patsies in these movies -a point Lucas beats the audience over the head with over and over. He even has a scene where you hear Gunray and Haako saying that they think they're gone too far and shouldn't have made their bargain with Mephistopheles Sidious. Their greed and stupidity are motivation enough.

To be hung on it means I have standards for my cinema cowshit for brains.

You stand corrected.

Yes, indeed.

He had to send his secret Jedi agents to negotiate with them because they weren't breaking any laws, and thus the senate couldn't openly force them to give up the blockade.

If it was illegal, why all the cloak and dagger bullshit? Why not just denounce them openly in the senate and send the cops to bust it up right there and then?

Did you wear a snorkel to the theater when TPM came out? I ask because I'm amazed you didn't suffocate while watching a two-hour movie with your head up Heathcliff's ass the whole time. If you had watched the movie, not only would you have heard it said that Valorum is bogged down by scandals and the corruption of the system, but you would have seen demonstrated just how feckless he was in dealing with the Senate. He lets them sandbag him before he can so much as let Naboo state their case before the senate. So is he going to go through the parliamentary process to try to stop the blockade, or maybe try an end run with a couple of Jedi?

You really are a cretin.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

Who said it was legal? Even the arch-villain Sidious said he would "make it legal".

The dude with the shitty asian accent said it was “perfectly legal” Is lucas’s cock blockading your view of the movie? Because you missed that and it’s pretty evident that Sidious said he would make the invasion legal. The invasion not the blockade.

Right, just like there's a difference between a commercial airline and commercial air routes.

Yes there is… those are two different things. Just because I drive on a toll road doesn’t mean Honda has to pay the toll. So if the Naboo are using the Trade Fed’s “space roads” they would be the ones paying the taxes to the trade fed. Do see what everyone else has been talking about now? Should I slow down some more for you or use caps and increase the font size?

Because BP would last about 30 seconds against the US Navy. A closer analogy would be when United Fruit Company hired mercenaries to overthrow the government of Guatemala because the Arbenz government taxed the company's holdings.

Are you saying the Trade Fed would last longer than 30 second against the republic? Because those fucking idiots lost to a slapstick rabbit, a teenage girl and an 8 year old. Scary army for sure.

As for the United Fruit Company you love bringing up, you simplify it just a little bit. The CIA had a large had in over throwing the government based on assumptions (lead buy the United Fruit Company) that Guatemala was under soviet control. So really its would be more like if the Republic hired the TF to overthrow Queen Amidala because she was possibly with Count Dooku. Not at all in keeping with the simple story line of TF GREEDY. SIDOUS EVIL.

Just because you and Red Letter Moron's other fluffers are mindnumbingly stupid doesn't mean everyone else who watched the movie is.

Damn you know it. You so smart you brought up like history and shit. Laying down facts like you was a blues clues episode or something. How you get so smart? Like the puns and shit you use are wicked smart, Red Letter Moron! HAHAHAHAH!1 Fucks that is funny, you like should be on TV with Jeff Dunham and shit.

[Crateria]

Damn you know it. You so smart you brought up like history and shit. Laying down facts like you was a blues clues episode or something. How you get so smart? Like the puns and shit you use are wicked smart, Red Letter Moron! HAHAHAHAH!1 Fucks that is funny, you like should be on TV with Jeff Dunham and shit.

I'm not getting into this though. I liked the Red Letter Media video to be honest but otherwise I don't give a shit over whether or not Mr. Plinkket or whoever the fuck makes the videos is telling the truth to us. I just choose to watch the prequels or the OT when I feel like it.

[Stark]

For most people that would be 'never'.

The idea that the republic farmed out trade, or trade routes, or the right to trade, or trade concessions, to private organisations with political clout is an interesting one. Imagine if planets like Naboo had joined some kind of economic alliance (such as the republic) and then due to corruption their rights had been sold to a private corporation, who by dint of republic politics now own some of that planet's sovereign rights. Like, ancient tax farming, only in space where planets could literally be starved into extinction by blockade by ruthless capitalists that legally possess their right to trade.

[Cesario]

If we're doing Faustian bargains, it's usually useful for the audience to know what Mephistopheles is offering, and why Faust wants it.

Being stupid and greedy is all well and good, but the audience needs to know what they're hoping to accomplish with their actions if the film-maker wants us to care about the outcome.

We know what Tarkin wanted to accomplish in A New Hope. He wanted rule by fear. He wanted every system to be so busy shitting themselves in terror at the Death Star that no one would dare harbor the rebels or even consider siding against the Empire.

Destroying the Rebel base was also on his list of priorities.

What did Gunray want? Did he want to conquer Naboo? Did he want the Senate to lift the taxes on his trade routes and was using Naboo as a hostage? Did he want to pillage Naboo for its wealth? Did he want Naboo to be brought to task for not paying their dues to the Trade Federation?

I still don't know what Gunray wanted out of the deal.

What Sideous wanted was crystal clear, by contrast. He was using the situation to expand his political influence and lay the groundwork for what would become the Clone Wars.

But it was Gunray that our heroes were fighting the whole movie, not Sideous. Thus when the Trade Federation ship is destroyed and the droids shut down, I don't understand what our heroes have won.

What would have become of the Naboo if the Trade Federation had gotten everything it wanted? Genocide? Higher taxes? A new governor in place of its elected monarchy?

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

If it was illegal, why all the cloak and dagger bullshit? Why not just denounce them openly in the senate and send the cops to bust it up right there and then?

Did you wear a snorkel to the theater when TPM came out? I ask because I'm amazed you didn't suffocate while watching a two-hour movie with your head up Heathcliff's ass the whole time. If you had watched the movie, not only would you have heard it said that Valorum is bogged down by scandals and the corruption of the system, but you would have seen demonstrated just how feckless he was in dealing with the Senate. He lets them sandbag him before he can so much as let Naboo state their case before the senate. So is he going to go through the parliamentary process to try to stop the blockade, or maybe try an end run with a couple of Jedi?

You really are a cretin.

The fuck does that have to do with the blockade being legal or illegal? Are you saying Nute lied to an ambassador who would know if the blockade was legal or not? How do you make this movie even dumber? Keep going I find it fascinating watching the hamster wheel spin as you make shit up.

[emersonlakeandbalmer]

For most people that would be 'never'.

The idea that the republic farmed out trade, or trade routes, or the right to trade, or trade concessions, to private organisations with political clout is an interesting one. Imagine if planets like Naboo had joined some kind of economic alliance (such as the republic) and then due to corruption their rights had been sold to a private corporation, who by dint of republic politics now own some of that planet's sovereign rights. Like, ancient tax farming, only in space where planets could literally be starved into extinction by blockade by ruthless capitalists that legally possess their right to trade.

It's not unlike Chicago selling off it's parking meters to a private company. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but now they have to pay said company for to close down their own streets for parades and festivals. A good writer wouldn't let the catalyst for the main conflict in his movie be so muddy. I really don't know if Lucas is that shitty at writing or if he just really didn't give a fuck, all I know is he wasted 30 years of good will and shat out a story he clearly didn't think through.

[Galvatron]

So here we are 12 years later. Do we finally have a logical consensus on what the Trade Federation wanted?

[Channel72]

The arguments laid out in defense of TPM here are just getting more and more absurd...

We basically have:

1) The motivations of the Trade Federation are clear (if you make shit up in your head),

Or 2) The motivations of the Trade Federation don't matter, all we need to know is that they're greedy and evil.

Actually, the defense seems to be an inconsistent, desperate blend of these two things.

Regardless, this is just pathetic. (1) is totally absurd: the whole fucking movie is about the struggle against the Trade Federation. If their motivations aren't explicitly spelled out, then we're justified in saying TPM is written badly. If we have to fucking make shit up in order to explain why the bad guys are doing what they're doing, then we're justified in saying TPM is written badly.

And (2) is just basically a tacit admission that the movie is written poorly. In the OT, the villains have specific, practical motivations that drive their actions beyond "they're just evil and want power." Vader wants the Deathstar plans, Tarkin wants the rebels destroyed, Nute Gunray wants... um... money? political favors? control of Naboo? a new car??