The Jedi Fighter?

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-02-09 11:27pm

Darth Pounder wrote:Did lucas use drugs back then? Maybe thats where it all went wrong Lucas went cold turkey. QUICKLY BUY THE MAN SOME POT SO SW3 WON'T SUCK.

Actually, I think this has been brought already, and Lucas did not use drugs, unlike Carrie Fisher.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-10 12:48pm

One thing I always wondered was... what weapons (if any) did Obi-Wan's ship have?

It is a starFIGHTER after all... why didn't he use any of them? Clearly Fett gave his ample reason to fire back, right?

I don't have any of the AOTC tech books, or I'd look it up myself.
; )

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-10 01:04pm

Kurgan wrote:One thing I always wondered was... what weapons (if any) did Obi-Wan's ship have?

On the non-canon toy, large sections of the wings pop off to reveal four blasters and a pair of missle launchers. But then again, the toys aren't very reliable representations.

It is a starFIGHTER after all... why didn't he use any of them? Clearly Fett gave his ample reason to fire back, right?

Not really. Obi-wan wanted to secretly follow Fett back to his base to find out what was going on. Fighting back would have put a real hindrance on that plan.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-10 04:20pm

In the Jedi Starfighter PS2 game the fighter came with only twin lasers but it also came with nifty force powers. I'm sure the ship is listed in AOTC:ICS

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-11 04:49am

Not really. Obi-wan wanted to secretly follow Fett back to his base to find out what was going on. Fighting back would have put a real hindrance on that plan.

Bullshit! All of his cover was blown the instant Fett started shooting. Notice how Fett went out of his way to throw enough firepower at Obi-Wan to level a city (according to Wong's calcs).

Now granted, he hid and played dead so Fett wouldn't find him, but its apparent he did that more for SURVIVAL purposes, as he was getting his ass handed to him.

I guess the only conclusion is that either his ship's weapons were damaged beyond repair in the initial volley of Fett's attack, his ship was so new not only was it not outfitted with its own internal hyperdrive, but also had no functioning weapons systems to speak of... or else Obi-Wan was an even bigger idiot than previously imagined...

What is he, a super pacifist? Forgot which button fires the lasers? He never tried to surrender, or to negotiate, just to run away.

Surely Fett wasn't such an idiot he didn't (or his computer didn't) recognize the craft as a Republic vessel.. it even had the markings on the side, and if indeed its called a "Jedi Starfighter" that would be an even bigger giveaway (unless again, the craft was so new that somebody like Fett wouldn't know about it).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-11 04:51am

This also begs the question, if true, why did the Jedi Council (or Obi-Wan) decide to take a ship with no weapons systems into danger?

Clearly Fett was dangerous, as he had the reputation for it. Was Obi-Wan just supremely overconfident in his ability not to be detected?

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-11 01:52pm

The Jedi Starfighter is definately armed. THis is stated in the Book of the movie when Jango and Boba are checking of the ship. Jango specifically mentions the weapons. I'll get ya the full quote when my eyes are fully open.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-11 02:12pm

Kurgan wrote:
Not really. Obi-wan wanted to secretly follow Fett back to his base to find out what was going on. Fighting back would have put a real hindrance on that plan.
Now granted, he hid and played dead so Fett wouldn't find him, but its apparent he did that more for SURVIVAL purposes, as he was getting his ass handed to him.

And what did Obi-wan do as soon as he was sure Fett had stopped tracking him? Thats right--resume pursuit down to the surface. Once his cover had been blown, Obi-wan needed a way to regain it.

Obviously being detected in the first place hurt Obi-wan's plans, but he was still able to improvise.

I guess the only conclusion is that either his ship's weapons were damaged beyond repair in the initial volley of Fett's attack, his ship was so new not only was it not outfitted with its own internal hyperdrive, but also had no functioning weapons systems to speak of... or else Obi-Wan was an even bigger idiot than previously imagined...

Or Obi-wan realized he was up against a superior pilot and/or ship and his weapons would be inadequate, AND blowing Fett out of the sky would have prevented Obi-wan from finding out precisely where Fett was going.

Obi-wan's entire mission was INVESTIGATION. He wanted to find out WHO HIRED FETT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Killing Fett is NOT compatible with that goal.

What is he, a super pacifist? Forgot which button fires the lasers? He never tried to surrender, or to negotiate, just to run away.

Temporarily hiding is not the same thing as running away.

Surely Fett wasn't such an idiot he didn't (or his computer didn't) recognize the craft as a Republic vessel.. it even had the markings on the side, and if indeed its called a "Jedi Starfighter" that would be an even bigger giveaway (unless again, the craft was so new that somebody like Fett wouldn't know about it).

Fett probably knew what was chasing him. Why does this matter?

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-02-11 04:39pm

For all who don't know, the ships in Star Wars were designed by people at the Jet Porpulsion Lab.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-12 06:29am

Obi-wan's entire mission was INVESTIGATION. He wanted to find out WHO HIRED FETT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Killing Fett is NOT compatible with that goal.

He could have returned fire... it may have slowed Fett down, or he could have possibly disabled his ship forcing him to land or break off his attack. Granted Fett wasn't expected to surrender willingly, but Obi-Wan's response was pathetic, if he was really fully armed.

That would be like a cop chasing down a suspect who had a machinegun, and not drawing his own pistol once, then running away and hiding after he got fired at, then sneaking back up on him later.

He's either incredibly brave, or incredibly stupid.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-12 06:30am

I mean, okay... we see that Obi-Wan was more than a match for Fett on the ground, and maybe as a pilot he wasn't very good. But he's a JEDI dangit.. he has Jedi reflexes.. making him more of a natural pilot, what.... is this the first time he's flown in a ship like this?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-12 11:01am

Kurgan wrote:He could have returned fire... it may have slowed Fett down, or he could have possibly disabled his ship forcing him to land or break off his attack. Granted Fett wasn't expected to surrender willingly

If you were being chased by a cop and your car got damaged, but still though you could get away, would you immediately run back to your base with the cop in pursuit or do you hi-tail it to the nearest place you can hide?

Obi-Wan's response was pathetic, if he was really fully armed.

You're still assuming that Obi-wan's ship had weapons powerful enough to do much to Slave-1. Being "fully armed" doens't mean you have the most powerful weapons available in the galaxy.

That would be like a cop chasing down a suspect who had a machinegun, and not drawing his own pistol once, then running away and hiding after he got fired at, then sneaking back up on him later.

Not a good analogy since the cop would need to re-locate the suspect while Obi-wan's sensor equipment was able to track Slave-1 to its approximate landing point.

He's either incredibly brave, or incredibly stupid....But he's a JEDI dangit.. he has Jedi reflexes.. making him more of a natural pilot, what.... is this the first time he's flown in a ship like this?

He doesn't like flying.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-12 11:30am

If you were being chased by a cop and your car got damaged, but still though you could get away, would you immediately run back to your base with the cop in pursuit or do you hi-tail it to the nearest place you can hide?

That's not my question. My question is.. why didn't Obi-Wan use his weapons, if he had them, when his life was threatened?

Were they simply so utterly crapular, that he just didn't even bother?

You're still assuming that Obi-wan's ship had weapons powerful enough to do much to Slave-1. Being "fully armed" doens't mean you have the most powerful weapons available in the galaxy.

No, but he could have slowed down Fett's ship, or even damaged him enough to force him to break off his attack. Hell, I bet an X-Wing could do that. And what good is a 'fighter' that can't even challenge a ship like Fett's?

Not a good analogy since the cop would need to re-locate the suspect while Obi-wan's sensor equipment was able to track Slave-1 to its approximate landing point.

Okay, fine. But what you're saying is that Obi-Wan had weapons but thought he DIDN'T NEED THEM?

Okay, let's put together a theory... Obi-Wan may have had weapons, but he didn't dare use them because they were so crappy, they wouldn't even make a dent in Fett's navigational deflector (just kidding! but you get the point), and so he waited it out because his ship stood no chance.

So Obi-Wan's plan all along was to lure Fett into ground combat, where he would be a match. Smart guy. He merely underestimated what Fett's ship was capable of, and so he didn't bring along the kind of ship that could handle him (maybe ships that small are all crap-tacular in combat, and he just chose it for purposes of stealth).

He doesn't like flying.

Which means he doesn't fly, which means he's a crap pilot, which means they were idiots to let him conduct the investigation! Hell.. why didn't he hire a pilot to take him there in a better ship?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-12 12:53pm

Sigh

If Fett still thinks Obi-wan is still tracking him, Fett is NOT going to return to his base. Its as simple as that. Shoting at Fett would have made him more aggitated. If Fett's ship is damaged, he does NOT return to his base but instead gets the hell out of Dodge.

Obi-Wan had weapons but thought he DIDN'T NEED THEM?

There is no need for weapons when your mission is Surveillance. Period.

Which means he doesn't fly, which means he's a crap pilot, which means they were idiots to let him conduct the investigation! Hell.. why didn't he hire a pilot to take him there in a better ship?

No one was expecting a dogfight. Obi-wan was originally supposed to check out the cloners on Kamino. No one had any idea what ship Fett flew or that he owned one at all. They didn't even know who Fett was.

Sure, the Jedi were overconfident and they made a mistake. So what? Everyone does. You condem them only because you have hindsight. Hindsight is always 20/20. Foresight isn't nearly as reliable.

Kerneth · Post by **Kerneth** » 2003-02-12 12:53pm

Because hiring someone to take him in a better ship would unnecessarily put that person's life at risk.

You're making a big deal about the fact that Obi-Wan didn't shoot back at Fett meaning that Obi-Wan was either 1) stupid or 2) had such crappy weapons it wouldn't've done any good. How about option #3, that Obi-Wan didn't want to shoot back because he could have damaged or destroyed Slave I and hurt or killed not only Fett but a young child that was onboard. Obi-Wan's not an expert pilot, and I doubt he's technically skilled enough to know what areas of a starship it is and isn't relatively safe to shoot up with lasers, that would cripple the starship without destroying it. X-Wing games where you can fairly precisely calculate the number of hits it'll take with torpedos or lasers to drop something's shields then switch to ion cannons and disable it aside, it's not a good idea to fire high-powered energy beams or warheads at a vessel that's carrying someone you want to capture alive, unless you're a good enough pilot/gunner to inflict crippling but nonfatal damage to the target.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-13 10:02am

Sure, the Jedi were overconfident and they made a mistake. So what? Everyone does. You condem them only because you have hindsight. Hindsight is always 20/20. Foresight isn't nearly as reliable.

So it seems the general consensus of opinion is that Obi-Wan could have fired, but he held back because it was a "spy mission" and he wanted Fett to lead him to his base, right?

Why not capture Fett, or disable his ship, in order to send reinforcements to take him as a prisoner. Then interrogate him later... hell, I'm sure Jedi make good interrogators. ; )

I would think that whatever skills Obi-Wan lacked in piloting could be made up for with the fact that he's a force adept, giving him quicker reactions,etc than anybody else and precognition.

Then again,perhaps the Force is what this was all about.. perhaps Obi-Wan simply "trusted in the Force" when he was in danger, and the Force chose "evasive manuvers" instead of "fight back." Maybe he just didn't have time to think "gee, maybe I should fire"? Thus Obi-Wan would be simply conditioned to be much more defensive. The natural reaction I would think would be to return fire, unless your weapons were damaged or you didn't have any.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-13 11:12am

Obi van is not a good pilot. Only his jedi skills make him slightly better then Fett. Slightly better abilities are not enough to just disable a ship without destroying it.
Obi Van did not want to kill Fett, he needed him alive. Why would he risk to kill Fett in a space battle when he would be able to catch him on the ground?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-13 11:26am

Ugh, I'm going to clarify a long-existing SW urban legend...

The design of the Slave I for ESB was NOT based on a street lamp near ILM.

It was based on the appearance of a sattelite dish drawn as an ellipse from a specific angle. The designer said so himself, and that the street light theory was just something that other people made up.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-13 11:47am

Kurgan wrote:Why not capture Fett, or disable his ship, in order to send reinforcements to take him as a prisoner. Then interrogate him later... hell, I'm sure Jedi make good interrogators. ; )

Fett had already killed Zam Wassel (sp?) to prevent her from talking. Obi-wan probably assumed Fett would do the same to himself if captured.

The natural reaction I would think would be to return fire, unless your weapons were damaged or you didn't have any.

Damaged weapons is a possibility, yes.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-13 12:07pm

Perhaps he was afraid Fett would commit suicide rather than be captured? Nah... and then there's the thing.. did Obi-Wan know that Boba was with him?

Surely with the force, he could have detected the presence of a second body on Slave I, but who knows. I would think that survival would be his primary instinct, once it was absolutely clear that he was being fired upon.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-13 12:40pm

Kurgan wrote:Perhaps he was afraid Fett would commit suicide rather than be captured? Nah... and then there's the thing.. did Obi-Wan know that Boba was with him?

Well I think empty ships barely fire on jedis. So he had to know that someone who did not like him was onboard Slave 1. Since Boba disappeared along with Jango, he was the logical conclusion. Even when Obi did not see Boba getting in.

vakundok wrote:Obi van is not a good pilot. Only his jedi skills make him slightly better then Fett. Slightly better abilities are not enough to just disable a ship without destroying it.
Obi Van did not want to kill Fett, he needed him alive. Why would he risk to kill Fett in a space battle when he would be able to catch him on the ground?

Besides ...
What could happen if Obi Van somehow manage to disable the Slave 1?
1. If Obi Van canot stabilize it in time it would crash to Geonosis or an asteroid.
2. If Obi Van would be able to do it too then he would have to somehow join the Slave 1 and the Delta7 to the hyperspace ring and after this he would have to somehow keep them alive during the voyage. (Except if the life support system of a crippled or disabled ship is still functional.)

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-13 01:00pm

Kurgan wrote:Perhaps he was afraid Fett would commit suicide rather than be captured? Nah...

Perhaps you'd care to share why you dismiss this rather than just doing so and expect me to take your word on faith.

and then there's the thing.. did Obi-Wan know that Boba was with him? Surely with the force, he could have detected the presence of a second body on Slave I, but who knows. I would think that survival would be his primary instinct, once it was absolutely clear that he was being fired upon.

I'm sure Obi-wan did know Boba was on the ship. But whats the point? Boba probably doesn't know much about whats going on. Obi-wan thinks Boba is just a nine-year old kid (OK clone). Granted he's a kid who knows how to fire a blaster.

Oh, and congratulations on your 500th post, fellow Jedi Knight.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-13 06:16pm

Perhaps you'd care to share why you dismiss this rather than just doing so and expect me to take your word on faith.

We know he's ruthless.. he kills, he's a bounty hunter after all.

But, he cares about money.. he cares about his son. He has a will to live. Thus I think its unlikely he would try to commit suicide to avoid capture... though Obi-Wan wouldn't know this for certain, hence perhaps his over-active degree of caution?

I'm sure Obi-wan did know Boba was on the ship. But whats the point? Boba probably doesn't know much about whats going on. Obi-wan thinks Boba is just a nine-year old kid (OK clone). Granted he's a kid who knows how to fire a blaster.

No different than any other child. My point was that as a Jedi, we assume he has some moral scruples against killing children, so maybe he avoided attacking Fett's ship, for fear of collateral damage. I'm just discussing possibilities here.

Oh, and congratulations on your 500th post, fellow Jedi Knight.

*bows*

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-14 12:06am

Kurgan wrote:But, he cares about money.. he cares about his son. He has a will to live. Thus I think its unlikely he would try to commit suicide to avoid capture... though Obi-Wan wouldn't know this for certain, hence perhaps his over-active degree of caution?

All Obi-wan knows about Fett is a link to the Kamino cloners and Fett killed Zam to prevent her from talking. Even if Obi-wan though Fett wouldn't kill himself, it would be a good bet that someone else would take him out to keep the secret.

No different than any other child. My point was that as a Jedi, we assume he has some moral scruples against killing children, so maybe he avoided attacking Fett's ship, for fear of collateral damage. I'm just discussing possibilities here.

Thats possible.

Oh, and congratulations on your 500th post, fellow Jedi Knight.
*bows*

Except I'm a master now. BWUHAHAHAHAHAHA. Kneel before me slave.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-14 08:04am

Obi knew that Boba was on Slave 1. Who else could have fired at him on the dcking platform while Obi and Jango where fighting.