Imperial Military Blunders

[nightmare]

Plenty.

ANH
1.The Imperial Forces at Tatooine failed to properly insitute a blockade of the system,grounding all spacecraft and deploying sufficient interdictors to stop them from escaping in space.

2.Imperial forces ignored the Rebel attacks.

Well now, the ISDs didn't show up until after the MF took off. Doesn't look like they were blockading at all. They probably only started to chase after the MF once the Stormtroopers told them of the suspicious ship that left Mos Eisley. Even at that point, the Imperials didn't know they were looking for that ship - they only knew it had droids aboard and they fought their way out, making them highly suspicious. Given that they only got seconds of warning, I say they did a pretty good job. A little closer and the MF ould have done a Tantive IV.

TESB
1.The blockade,was ineffective.With only one transport escaping at a time,it should have been possible for TIE fighters and the like to destroy their escorts and damage the transports.Incidently,the TESB blockade is ample proof of the fact that General Dodonna statement in ANH,that a snubfighter can't do any damage except to another snubfighter is probably true.Cause the transports,got away,after capital ships were damaged.

2.The AT-AT,was competent enough.The problem was the follow up.They didn't follow standard FOFO tactics,instead,choosing to land forces beyond the entrenched lines and entering the base itself direct.While this could be excused due to the need to get to the landing sites,the fact is,the Rebels landing zone were not significantly hindered by the Imperial ground operation.
Yes,we see the fact that Leia couldn't get to the transport as the corridor collasped,but Luke,Wedge and the rest managed to get to the transports and fighters,which in the SE,were clearly shown to be outdoors!

In other words,they focused on the wrong objective,the base instead of the ships.

Needless to say,the Imperial forces running through the base were running through the base,not securing the base at all.

I would chalk most of this up to the fact that Vader wanted Luke more than anything else. Sure, it was bad, but it had a reason at least.

In Cloud City,Imperial stormtroopers failed to properly secure and protect the prisoners.There is no evidence of them letting Leia and Lando purposely getting away.

Furthermore,at the docking bay,a dedicated charge to close quarters,would have finished off Leia and co.Instead,they stayed behind at the doorways and sniped at the enemy.

Vader left Chewbacca and Leia to Lando's guards. He didn't expect Lando to turn on him, given that he would lose Cloud City. But he did. As for charges and grenades.. well, we see them so often in the OT that you wonder if they had any grenades as standard issue at that period of time. I doubt they did.

I'm not going to mention ROTJ, it was full of mistakes.. all of them can be understood in their own light, but given as a whole, it was a remarkable display.

[Oddity]

Battle of Hoth:

- General Veers attack only with AT-ATs and some AT-STs. If he had backed up the walkers with battledroids and given them fighter cover, I doubt he would have lost a single one of those walkers. Imperial overconfidence.
- Also, he could have sent in TIE Bombers to knock out that Ion Cannon.

In other words, NO air-to-ground support because of the shield. No TIE bombers, no TIE fighters, no hovertanks, nothing. Before AOTC, this was merely the prevalent theory, now it's official. TIEs were most likely kept as part of the orbital blockade.

The AT-ATs were able to move through the shield because they were in contact with the ground. I was thinking they could have landed the Bombers right outside the shield, then somehow transported them a few meters while in contact with the ground and then taken off again.

Battle of Yavin:

- Tarkin fails to launch fighters to meet the Rebel attack. However, this was neither due to overconfidence nor incompetence. No one could have imagined that a few enemy fighters could pose a threat to the Deathstar, and the attack would have failed if one of the pilots hadn't been a Jedi- trainee. Besides, Tarkin may not have been aware that the conventional weaponry of the Deathstar would be unable to hit something as small as a fighter before the battle.

He had tens of thousands of TIEs available. He could have shot down every one of those rebels before they even crossed the defensive screen. Hell, they should have been deployed anyway to prevent any rebels from evacuating Yavin before the DS fired. That's the only concievable reason the DS would need that kind of fighter capacity, anyway--to prevent people from escaping from planets targeted for destruction (similar to the way TIEs are used in the early phases of BDZ operations).

I think I read somewhere that the Rebels simply didn't have the freighter capacity to evacuate the Yavin base, but I don't remember where ... If this were the case a blockade wouldn't have been necessary.

Speaking of which, why in the world were Dodanna and Princess Leia on Yavin during the battle? They couldn't do anything down there they couldn't have done on board a Corellian corvette, and if the attack failed, at least the Rebels' top leadership wouldn't have been anihilated along with their base, along with the Death Star plans which showed everybody how to destroy it.

We never saw any other ships other than fighters and the Falcon. Granted, Han Solo could have transported the Rebel leadership off-planet, but ... I can imagine the Rebel leaders exclaiming: "I refuse to abandon my men!"

Battle of Hoth:

- General Veers attack only with AT-ATs and some AT-STs. If he had backed up the walkers with battledroids and given them fighter cover, I doubt he would have lost a single one of those walkers. Imperial overconfidence.
- Also, he could have sent in TIE Bombers to knock out that Ion Cannon.

In this case I disagree, Veers completed it's mision in destroying the Shield generator. It cost him 2 AT-At's and an unaccounted number of units, but it was a sucessfull mission, throwing into disarray all Rebel oposition. The ground units went under the shield, only if they are able to carry TIE's would they be able to employ them. Since TIE's weren't used, we must assume there weren't any transports for the craft.

TIEs may not have been available, but battledroids could maybe have saved those two AT-ATs. Of course it is possible that the Death Squadron didn't carry any, as nightmare implied. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh in calling Veers overconfident.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The Death Star and Yavin

The Death Star assault by the Rebel fighters was actually an understandable, if not hugely brilliant, public relations move by Tarkin. The point of using the Death Star to blow away the Rebel base was to demonstrate to the Galaxy at large the utter futility of opposing the Empire and, in particular, the Empire's new terror weapon. Had Tarkin won after deploying an enormous swarm of fighters, it would have terribly blunted the propaganda effect of the Death Star's obliterating the puny Rebellion and its pack of unwashed criminals. As for the thermal exhaust port, who knew? Specifically, who knew that one pilot would be able to make the perfect, effectively impossible shot?

As for Leia and Dodonna remaining on Yavin as the Death Star approached, there is no indication that the base had any hyperspace-capable vessels on hand at that time aside from the fighters. The Rebels were apparently not well-financed and rather thin on the ground at that time, so that any interstellar vessels available were likely off doing various useful things. The only option would then have been to commandeer the Millenium Falcon at gunpoint and have the command personnel run for it while the remainder of the rebels stayed and hoped they wouldn't die horribly while the aristos save their own butts.


Echo Base

The imperial assault on Echo Base, on the other hand, is subject to several problems in terms of interpretation. The single most important thing to remember is the almost inescapable conclusion that the Rebellion was, by the time of TESB, of strictly secondary importance to the Emperor and Vader. The most important thing was to secure Luke Skywalker for the Empire. That focus immediately eliminates the most ruthlessly effective options. Thus, for instance, no amount of theater shielding would have prevented the Imperial task force's simply reducing the rest of Hoth to a sodden, radioactive mess. The resulting earthquakes and masses of meltwater would almost certainly have taken little notice of the theater shield. Eventually, after sufficient bombardment, the entire base would have sunk into a lake of molten, radioactive rock.

As for the assault itself, only portions of it were seen, leading to a potentially distorted picture.

A common criticism is the lack of anti-aircraft/anti-artillery assets on the Imperial side. The thing is that the side turrets of the AT-ATs, mounting medium blaster cannon, were shown acting strictly in the role of close-in air defense weapons. The AT-STs that escorted the AT-ATs are equipped with very similar lateral turrets, one turret being fitted with a concussion launcher (or concussion grenade launcher, depending on the source), the other with twin light blaster cannon (per the SW ICS). While in combat on Endor, none of the AT-STs was seen to use the lateral turrets against ground targets, even going so far as to pivot the vehicle's upper section to bring the primary armament to bear even though the lateral turrets should have offered faster response. This leads to the (possibly wrong) conclusion that the lateral turrets of the AT-ATs and AT-STs are likely semi-autonomous units normally under the control of their own targeting computers (and perhaps a small droid brain). These turrets would then be tasked with engaging airborne threats at close range.

Another point of criticism is the lack of rear coverage provided by the forward mounting of the AT-AT weaponry. As the AT-AT is an assault transport designed specifically to carry a load of heavily armed troops into the thick of the fight while the AT-AT itself softens up the target zone with a steady stream of firepower, placing the weapons in such a way that they point toward the enemy seems somehow appropriate. This also applies to the lateral turrets, as most enemy fire and air attacks will be coming from the frontal arc of the AT-AT. AT-ATs in battle should normally be deployed with AT-STs covering their flanks and rear areas, in part rendering the lack of rearward firepower moot. The fact that anything behind the AT-ATs should be either friendly-held ground or stomped flat would be another point to consider.

Yet another point of criticism is that the AT-ATs as deployed were vulnerable to individual sappers or small sapper teams. The high-energy environment of a typical Star Wars battlefield, as shown in the assault on Echo Base, is no place for infantry to be without serious cover. The approach to the battlefield itself, on the other hand, seems almost predestined for sapper ambushes. Unfortunately, there are two things arguing against that kind of ambush: biker scouts and terrain sensors.

Each AT-AT carries up to five biker scouts for use in scouting and pursuit of isolated infantry. A formation of six AT-ATs on the move should therefore be near the middle of a constantly shifting formation of up to 30 outriders on repulsorlift bikes, not counting the AT-STs that should also be stalking along. Those scouts would make the life of a sapper short but interesting. In active battle the biker scouts would naturally have to hang back, waiting to exploit breakthrough opportunities, or sweep along the enemy's flanks.

Both AT-ATs and AT-STs have terrain sensors that are supposed to tell them the configuration of the ground ahead. The massive, plodding footfalls of the AT-ATs produce noticeable ground tremors, which means that the foot-mounted terrain sensors should be able to give the AT-AT crews a detailed, real-time readout of the configuration of the ground surrounding the vehicle formation. Foxholes, concealed bunkers and similar protected sapper hideouts would be quickly exposed and subjected to fire. There is the additional fact that a sapper would have to get directly under the AT-AT. From there he or she would have to either fire a shoulder-launched proton torpedo directly upward, or do a Luke Skywalker and winch up to the belly of the beast and physically break open a secured hatch to toss a grenade into the spaces for the leg engines (or perhaps attach a sapper charge to the hatch).


Bespin
Once again, the entire Imperial strategy is to put on a convincing show in order to secure the capture of Luke Skywalker. Anything achieved beyond that is gravy. Therefore, once again, the Imperials are wearing their kid gloves. Nothing must be allowed to happen that could ultimately make it impossible to capture and Skywalker.


Endor
Yet again, the entire Battle of Endor amounts to little more than an elaborate diorama designed to achieve one goal: the turning of Luke Skywalker. That the Rebel Alliance will get its clock cleaned in the process is just an added benefit: the Alliance is still operating under the delusion that the Emperor considers it relevant.

1. The Bothan spies are fed false information.

2. An old but valid security code is leaked to the Alliance.

3. The Imperial garrison base is set up in completely unsuitable terrain that could have been graded flat and deforested with relatively trivial effort, so that Rebel commandos can sneak in realistically.

4. The bunker controlling the force field generator is placed in a position that makes it effectively impossible to monitor from the base.

5. The ambush fleet is given strict (i.e., personal from the Emperor) orders to merely pin the Rebel fleet and initiate a fighter melee.

6. The supposedly unfinished but actually functional (if underprotected) DS2 proceeds to leisurely pick off ships of the Rebel fleet, contemptuously swatting them into oblivion one by one.

7. A unit of troops waiting in ambush arrests the Rebel commandos (who may be useful leverage if Skywalker proves initially resistant to the Emperorl's blandishments).

Too bad a horde of suicidally aggressive aborigines, an overeager Imperial junior officer and Anakin Skywalker blow the Emperor's foolproof plan right out the airlock and suddenly make the Rebel Alliance relevant.

The Imperial tactics employed at Endor were constrained by, and subordinate to, the Emperor's plans.

[ClaysGhost]

My personal favourite is the collision of two of the SDs blockading Hoth. If Vader didn't strangle someone for that, he should have.

[nightmare]

[quote="Crazy Ivan"]
The AT-ATs were able to move through the shield because they were in contact with the ground. I was thinking they could have landed the Bombers right outside the shield, then somehow transported them a few meters while in contact with the ground and then taken off again.
[quote="Crazy Ivan"]

I totally agree with you that it was possible. It is clearly not viable though. usually heavy things are carried with the helf of repulsorlift (TESB, carbonite Han Solo), or by transports (shuttles, AT-ATs), but none of those would have worked. Shuttles and repulsordrives can't pass, and AT-AT's are not contstructed to move TIEs.

Eventually, they could have built some kind of sled and dragged the landed TIEs past the shield, but I think Veers would be suffocating the moment Vader found out he was wasting time with sleds when he had overwhelming firepower at hand. They could have used ten times more walkers and troops, but they didn't. Apparently they thought the strike force was enough to take down the shield, which was the objective for Veer's group.. and they were right.

I would guess that if the imperials had landed a much larger force (which would have taken longer time to get moving) and attacked from all available angles (all but the back), the rebels would have left at once and not wasted time with fighting to hold them back. More resources and people would have been left behind, but Luke and Co would surely have escaped then, even though they (barely) managed that anyway.

In other words, Vader sacrificed catching more common rebel troops by going after the big fish, his son and the leaders. I think he did the right choice, although I would have preferred a more Thrawn-ish method then the "brute force now" tactic. It rhymes well with Vader, though. Of course, this is just my POV.

[Patrick Ogaard]

My personal favourite is the collision of two of the SDs blockading Hoth. If Vader didn't strangle someone for that, he should have.

That really was extremely sloppy on the Imperial side. Not implausible, but it was extremely sloppy, unprofessionally so, on the part of those two skippers.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The AT-ATs were able to move through the shield because they were in contact with the ground. I was thinking they could have landed the Bombers right outside the shield, then somehow transported them a few meters while in contact with the ground and then taken off again.

I totally agree with you that it was possible. It is clearly not viable though. usually heavy things are carried with the helf of repulsorlift (TESB, carbonite Han Solo), or by transports (shuttles, AT-ATs), but none of those would have worked. Shuttles and repulsordrives can't pass, and AT-AT's are not contstructed to move TIEs.

Eventually, they could have built some kind of sled and dragged the landed TIEs past the shield, but I think Veers would be suffocating the moment Vader found out he was wasting time with sleds when he had overwhelming firepower at hand. They could have used ten times more walkers and troops, but they didn't. Apparently they thought the strike force was enough to take down the shield, which was the objective for Veer's group.. and they were right.

I would guess that if the imperials had landed a much larger force (which would have taken longer time to get moving) and attacked from all available angles (all but the back), the rebels would have left at once and not wasted time with fighting to hold them back. More resources and people would have been left behind, but Luke and Co would surely have escaped then, even though they (barely) managed that anyway.

In other words, Vader sacrificed catching more common rebel troops by going after the big fish, his son and the leaders. I think he did the right choice, although I would have preferred a more Thrawn-ish method then the "brute force now" tactic. It rhymes well with Vader, though. Of course, this is just my POV.

There is also no assurance that TIE fighters or bombers would have done well against the Rebel defensive lines. Constrained by the need to stay below the theater shield, the TIE units would have been on relatively even footing with the airspeeders, and they would likely not have been nearly as resistant to the Rebel defensive fire as the AT-ATs were. Also, every TIE sent inside the shield is one less to chase Rebels trying to escape.

A nasty thought: If the physical dimensions of the shielded area can be changed quickly, then piloting a fighter inside an unfriendly shield is suicide. A squadron of grounded TIE bombers gets pulled through the shield and takes off on repulsorlifts and high powered ion thrusters. The squadron nears the Rebel lines and suddenly the shield contracts, the wall of the shield slamming downward and rushing to just short of the Rebel lines. An entire squadron of bombers suddenly loses thrust, the particles blocking their exhaust vents cause an engine explosion, and the repulsorlifts ground the bombers out in titanic lightning bolts.

[RedImperator]

The Death Star and Yavin

The Death Star assault by the Rebel fighters was actually an understandable, if not hugely brilliant, public relations move by Tarkin. The point of using the Death Star to blow away the Rebel base was to demonstrate to the Galaxy at large the utter futility of opposing the Empire and, in particular, the Empire's new terror weapon. Had Tarkin won after deploying an enormous swarm of fighters, it would have terribly blunted the propaganda effect of the Death Star's obliterating the puny Rebellion and its pack of unwashed criminals. As for the thermal exhaust port, who knew? Specifically, who knew that one pilot would be able to make the perfect, effectively impossible shot?

The brilliant public relations move had already been accomplished. Tarkin vaporized one of the crown jewels of the entire galaxy with no resistance. Alderaan's planetary shield, which most people probably assumed was effectively invincible against anything smaller than a full scale assault by an Imperial sector group, held for all of a tenth of a second.

Yavin was a military operation, not a PR stunt. Tarkin should have had fighters up as soon as he dropped out of hyperspace, and he definitely should have deployed fighters once they spotted the incoming Rebel fighters. Yes, it's excusable that he didn't know his turbolaser batteries couldn't track fast enough to hit the X-wings and Y-wings, but it's totally inexcusable that he planned to rely solely on them when he had 1800 TIE fighters at his disposal. You can rationalize that maybe they only had a handful prepped for launch, but that's only a different kind of stupid.

And let's not forget, Tarkin's conduct obviously was NOT a brilliant public relations move--it was an utter PR disaster that the Empire never recovered from, because it demonstrated that it WAS possible to oppose the Empire and it's terror weapon successfully. It could, POTENTIALLY, been a good PR move, if it had succeded, but they'd already smashed Alderaan, so destroying Yavin would have had limited nonmilitary value.

As for Leia and Dodonna remaining on Yavin as the Death Star approached, there is no indication that the base had any hyperspace-capable vessels on hand at that time aside from the fighters. The Rebels were apparently not well-financed and rather thin on the ground at that time, so that any interstellar vessels available were likely off doing various useful things. The only option would then have been to commandeer the Millenium Falcon at gunpoint and have the command personnel run for it while the remainder of the rebels stayed and hoped they wouldn't die horribly while the aristos save their own butts.

Point taken. Plus, Mon Mothma wasn't there, so we know at least some of the top Rebels were elsewhere at the time, and it's within character for Leia to remain behind with her troops and risk death rather than run.

[Patrick Ogaard]

Well, Tarkin's attack on the Rebel base does have all the earmarks of a PR stunt. It was a good idea only in Tarkin's diseased brain, of course ... Had Tarkin used good military sense and deployed a fighter screen and the strike cruisers the Death Star was supposed to carry as support vessels, it would have been a short, sharp shock, to use a Thatcherism. The Rebellion would have suffered a mortal blow. Instead, Tarkin let his pride and his giant toy dominate his thinking (until he vaporized, of course).

[RedImperator]

Vader even tried to warn Tarkin. "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed."

Arrogance seems to be a hallmark of the Imperial military. Most of their blunders seem to be because they were overconfident, not incompetent. Of course, it all starts at the top, and Palpatine threw away the Empire to put on a show for Luke Skywalker. So in a way, you can't blame the commanders--they were just imitating the boss.

[Bartman]

Would they have fired the Superlaser with Ties deployed? Blowing up the moon would have been a death sentence for any fighter pilot active at the time. Not to say that they shouldn't have launched some CAP when they saw the rebel fighters. But a screen as a matter of course only gets the screen killed when the world goes boom.

[Darth Yoshi]

Not really. If the fighter screen was deployed around the Death Star, then they'll be shielded from any debris.

[Bartman]

Ah... I thought he was talking about using the fighter screen and cruisers to blockade the moon ala Hoth. Fighters within the 'magnetic shield' would be protected wouldn't they.

[RedImperator]

Ah... I thought he was talking about using the fighter screen and cruisers to blockade the moon ala Hoth. Fighters within the 'magnetic shield' would be protected wouldn't they.

Not so much an orbital blockade of Yavin, but positioning the TIEs to chase down any transports that make it out of the blast radius of Yavin. Did the DS1 have a variable-yield superlaser? If it did, they COULD have deployed TIEs in high orbit if the DS fired the bare minimum power beam needed to break up Yavin. That still would have killed everyone and destroyed everything on the surface.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I really can't believe no one aboard either ISD noticed the other ISD heading straight towards them. NTM the fact that whoever the fuck was controlling the two didn't think of simply pitching up or down. ROFLMFAO!!! The same way in Godzilla none of the Apache pilots thought about flying...UP. Not dodging a giant lizard in a maze of buildings, but rather flying up and gunning him down from a higher altitude.

[PainRack]

Well now, the ISDs didn't show up until after the MF took off. Doesn't look like they were blockading at all. They probably only started to chase after the MF once the Stormtroopers told them of the suspicious ship that left Mos Eisley. Even at that point, the Imperials didn't know they were looking for that ship - they only knew it had droids aboard and they fought their way out, making them highly suspicious. Given that they only got seconds of warning, I say they did a pretty good job. A little closer and the MF ould have done a Tantive IV.

Then why did they even bother to check it out?
More importantly,why was such infomation forwarded to the Death Star?Beside,the Star Wars EU hints that a partial blockade of the Tatooine system was insituted,hidden in the guise of a customs check or something like that.

I would chalk most of this up to the fact that Vader wanted Luke more than anything else. Sure, it was bad, but it had a reason at least.

No,it doesn't.

Vader left Chewbacca and Leia to Lando's guards. He didn't expect Lando to turn on him, given that he would lose Cloud City. But he did. As for charges and grenades.. well, we see them so often in the OT that you wonder if they had any grenades as standard issue at that period of time. I doubt they did.

I'm not going to mention ROTJ, it was full of mistakes.. all of them can be understood in their own light, but given as a whole, it was a remarkable display.

That is dumb.I mean,we keep hearing,'Stormtroopers are dedicated,brainwashed people who will scarifice anything to achieve victory."
In this case,they just stayed behind the doorway and sniped?Considering the attitudes of the Empire,why didn't they just charge?

[PainRack]

I really can't believe no one aboard either ISD noticed the other ISD heading straight towards them. NTM the fact that whoever the fuck was controlling the two didn't think of simply pitching up or down. ROFLMFAO!!! The same way in Godzilla none of the Apache pilots thought about flying...UP. Not dodging a giant lizard in a maze of buildings, but rather flying up and gunning him down from a higher altitude.

Actually,check out naval history.

The worst naval accident by the RN in the Mediterran was even more FUBAR than this.

[nightmare]

Well now, the ISDs didn't show up until after the MF took off. Doesn't look like they were blockading at all. They probably only started to chase after the MF once the Stormtroopers told them of the suspicious ship that left Mos Eisley. Even at that point, the Imperials didn't know they were looking for that ship - they only knew it had droids aboard and they fought their way out, making them highly suspicious. Given that they only got seconds of warning, I say they did a pretty good job. A little closer and the MF ould have done a Tantive IV.

Then why did they even bother to check it out?
More importantly,why was such infomation forwarded to the Death Star?Beside,the Star Wars EU hints that a partial blockade of the Tatooine system was insituted,hidden in the guise of a customs check or something like that.

Of course you can call it a partial blockade. The Devastator was in orbit when it took out the Tantive IV, and the two Star Destroyers were obviously in the system when they showed up to hunt the MF, most likely they were coming from the other side of the planet. It was clearly not a blockade like in TPM though, which is what I meant - a full blockade. No ship blocked MF's path.

I find it quite clear what happened - the Stormtroopers goes to check out a couple of droid the Kubaz had told them of, and runs into a bunch of insurgents firing at them, clearly criminals. The MF took off while the Stormtroopers called the navy. Whoops, two SDs show up to hunt the MF. Hyperdrive is fast, but it's not that fast. They must have been in the system somewhere. MF escapes, ISDs call the Death Star and tell them there's a suspected ship escaping Tatooine. I find it reasonable and logical.

I would chalk most of this up to the fact that Vader wanted Luke more than anything else. Sure, it was bad, but it had a reason at least.

No,it doesn't.

Everything has a reason.

Vader left Chewbacca and Leia to Lando's guards. He didn't expect Lando to turn on him, given that he would lose Cloud City. But he did. As for charges and grenades.. well, we see them so often in the OT that you wonder if they had any grenades as standard issue at that period of time. I doubt they did.

I'm not going to mention ROTJ, it was full of mistakes.. all of them can be understood in their own light, but given as a whole, it was a remarkable display.

That is dumb.I mean,we keep hearing,'Stormtroopers are dedicated,brainwashed people who will scarifice anything to achieve victory."
In this case,they just stayed behind the doorway and sniped?Considering the attitudes of the Empire,why didn't they just charge?

I think it's pretty clear that they were herding the rebels on Bespin. The reason? I don't know, perhaps they still followed the orders they had to let Luke through with minimal resistance? We have seen what happens when they are ordered to charge in ANH.

[Darth Yoshi]

Not so much an orbital blockade of Yavin, but positioning the TIEs to chase down any transports that make it out of the blast radius of Yavin. Did the DS1 have a variable-yield superlaser? If it did, they COULD have deployed TIEs in high orbit if the DS fired the bare minimum power beam needed to break up Yavin. That still would have killed everyone and destroyed everything on the surface.

Not sure. I suppose they could alter the firepower by firing before the superlaser was fully charged, but I don't know about after the laser's already been charged.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I really can't believe no one aboard either ISD noticed the other ISD heading straight towards them. NTM the fact that whoever the fuck was controlling the two didn't think of simply pitching up or down. ROFLMFAO!!! The same way in Godzilla none of the Apache pilots thought about flying...UP. Not dodging a giant lizard in a maze of buildings, but rather flying up and gunning him down from a higher altitude.

Actually,check out naval history.

The worst naval accident by the RN in the Mediterran was even more FUBAR than this.

What was the accident, praytell?

[Sea Skimmer]

I really can't believe no one aboard either ISD noticed the other ISD heading straight towards them. NTM the fact that whoever the fuck was controlling the two didn't think of simply pitching up or down. ROFLMFAO!!! The same way in Godzilla none of the Apache pilots thought about flying...UP. Not dodging a giant lizard in a maze of buildings, but rather flying up and gunning him down from a higher altitude.

The Godzilla AH-64's had the advantage of being scaled much too small, making high-speed maneuvers down NYC streets easy. Of course that whole moive made me want to vomit.

"Lets fight the huge monster with 50 cal machine guns" Instread of say 25mm cannon on M2's which have several times the power in addition to being explosive.

Or better yet, let's use MLRS units for direct fire in central park! Dispite the lack of any provisions for aiming them that way, or the air bursting bomblet warheads and several kilometer minimal range.

[PainRack]

Of course you can call it a partial blockade. The Devastator was in orbit when it took out the Tantive IV, and the two Star Destroyers were obviously in the system when they showed up to hunt the MF, most likely they were coming from the other side of the planet. It was clearly not a blockade like in TPM though, which is what I meant - a full blockade. No ship blocked MF's path.

I find it quite clear what happened - the Stormtroopers goes to check out a couple of droid the Kubaz had told them of, and runs into a bunch of insurgents firing at them, clearly criminals. The MF took off while the Stormtroopers called the navy. Whoops, two SDs show up to hunt the MF. Hyperdrive is fast, but it's not that fast. They must have been in the system somewhere. MF escapes, ISDs call the Death Star and tell them there's a suspected ship escaping Tatooine. I find it reasonable and logical.

You just supported all my arguments,so,why are we arguing?

The Empire did insitute a blockade.The purpose was to prevent the DS plans from getting off planet,and although no indication was made,its probable that the local garrison was also drafted in and that all droids that fit the description the Jawas and presumably,Aunt Beru and Owen given to the Imperials would be detained.

Along the way of the search,they found this ship,who is suspected to be carrying the DS plans,with a suspected Jedi!!!So,they chase it to the docking bay,but were thwarted.However,the ships in orbit,attempted to detain it,but failed.

The problem,is in the failure.Not whether its a full blockade or a half blockade.That's like saying,Oh,the US Army didn't devote all her armoured corps and airpower to stop the Iraqis from escaping,thus,its not their fault that the Iraqis did escape from Kuwait.

I would chalk most of this up to the fact that Vader wanted Luke more than anything else. Sure, it was bad, but it had a reason at least.

No,it doesn't.
[/quote]

Everything has a reason.[/quote]
You're arguing that because the Empire wanted to capture Luke skywalker,they ignored a tactical anaylsis and allowed the starships to continue loading,taking away their intended prey???Please.The Imperials failed to affirm that the Rebels have shifted their loading procedure off-base.They failed to stop it.Luke got away,by making it to the landing zone,where NO Imperial Stormtroopers were attacking.

Vader left Chewbacca and Leia to Lando's guards. He didn't expect Lando to turn on him, given that he would lose Cloud City. But he did. As for charges and grenades.. well, we see them so often in the OT that you wonder if they had any grenades as standard issue at that period of time. I doubt they did.

I'm not going to mention ROTJ, it was full of mistakes.. all of them can be understood in their own light, but given as a whole, it was a remarkable display.

That is dumb.I mean,we keep hearing,'Stormtroopers are dedicated,brainwashed people who will scarifice anything to achieve victory."
In this case,they just stayed behind the doorway and sniped?Considering the attitudes of the Empire,why didn't they just charge?

I think it's pretty clear that they were herding the rebels on Bespin. The reason? I don't know, perhaps they still followed the orders they had to let Luke through with minimal resistance? We have seen what happens when they are ordered to charge in ANH.[/quote]

The orders were let Luke through with minimal resistance.Not let Leia,an important Rebel leader,to escape.

Frankly,we only have ANH to compare with.If we add in ROTJ,where Stormtroopers surrendered,where naval security personnel surrendered and etc etc,they're definitely not fight to the death like the Nazis were.

[nightmare]

Of course you can call it a partial blockade. The Devastator was in orbit when it took out the Tantive IV, and the two Star Destroyers were obviously in the system when they showed up to hunt the MF, most likely they were coming from the other side of the planet. It was clearly not a blockade like in TPM though, which is what I meant - a full blockade. No ship blocked MF's path.

I find it quite clear what happened - the Stormtroopers goes to check out a couple of droid the Kubaz had told them of, and runs into a bunch of insurgents firing at them, clearly criminals. The MF took off while the Stormtroopers called the navy. Whoops, two SDs show up to hunt the MF. Hyperdrive is fast, but it's not that fast. They must have been in the system somewhere. MF escapes, ISDs call the Death Star and tell them there's a suspected ship escaping Tatooine. I find it reasonable and logical.

You just supported all my arguments,so,why are we arguing?

The Empire did insitute a blockade.The purpose was to prevent the DS plans from getting off planet,and although no indication was made,its probable that the local garrison was also drafted in and that all droids that fit the description the Jawas and presumably,Aunt Beru and Owen given to the Imperials would be detained.

Along the way of the search,they found this ship,who is suspected to be carrying the DS plans,with a suspected Jedi!!!So,they chase it to the docking bay,but were thwarted.However,the ships in orbit,attempted to detain it,but failed.

The problem,is in the failure.Not whether its a full blockade or a half blockade.That's like saying,Oh,the US Army didn't devote all her armoured corps and airpower to stop the Iraqis from escaping,thus,its not their fault that the Iraqis did escape from Kuwait.

And there ended the movie. I still think they did a good job with a bad start. If it had been a full blockade, and they let the MF slip thorugh, it would have been much more of a failure. We never got to see the captains of those two SDs suffocate, did we.. one might even have been the Devastator with Vader aboard. But you are right, there's no point in arguing about it. We are in agreement of what happened, we just differ slightly about the interpretation.

I would chalk most of this up to the fact that Vader wanted Luke more than anything else. Sure, it was bad, but it had a reason at least.

No,it doesn't.

Everything has a reason.

You're arguing that because the Empire wanted to capture Luke skywalker,they ignored a tactical anaylsis and allowed the starships to continue loading,taking away their intended prey???Please.The Imperials failed to affirm that the Rebels have shifted their loading procedure off-base.They failed to stop it.Luke got away,by making it to the landing zone,where NO Imperial Stormtroopers were attacking.

And it was a really bad idea to lower shields in the Hoth asteroid belt, but they did that too. See where I'm going with this? Or better yet, I'll spell it out:

"The evil lord Darth Vader, obsessed with finding young Skywalker,
has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of
space..."

Vader left Chewbacca and Leia to Lando's guards. He didn't expect Lando to turn on him, given that he would lose Cloud City. But he did. As for charges and grenades.. well, we see them so often in the OT that you wonder if they had any grenades as standard issue at that period of time. I doubt they did.

I'm not going to mention ROTJ, it was full of mistakes.. all of them can be understood in their own light, but given as a whole, it was a remarkable display.

That is dumb.I mean,we keep hearing,'Stormtroopers are dedicated,brainwashed people who will scarifice anything to achieve victory."

In this case,they just stayed behind the doorway and sniped?Considering the attitudes of the Empire,why didn't they just charge?

I think it's pretty clear that they were herding the rebels on Bespin. The reason? I don't know, perhaps they still followed the orders they had to let Luke through with minimal resistance? We have seen what happens when they are ordered to charge in ANH.

The orders were let Luke through with minimal resistance.Not let Leia,an important Rebel leader,to escape.

Frankly,we only have ANH to compare with.If we add in ROTJ,where Stormtroopers surrendered,where naval security personnel surrendered and etc etc,they're definitely not fight to the death like the Nazis were.

I'm not the one that says they are all do or die either. It's supported by the EU that Stormtroopers surrender when the odds are overwhelming.

Now, they shouldn't have let Leia escape, but they did. Why? You say they acted incompetent in their firefight tactics. I'm saying it was because of this:

"VADER: Good. See to it that he finds his way here. Calrissian, take
the princess and the Wookiee to my ship.

LANDO: You said they'd be left in the city under my supervision.

VADER: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Which sounds better to you? I might add, of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I belive I am too in this case.

[Kurgan]

The guy who ordered to "hold fire.. there's no lifeforms aboard" when Threepio and Artoo's escape pod floated by in ANH.

Granted, they probably shouldn't have fired, but they could have tractor-beamed it in.. then they'd know for SURE if the plans were aboard.

If they'd blown it up, they could assume that (and no pods got through), the plans were destroyed.. no hope for Alliance. But then again, they could never be sure.

So for their purposes, better to capture it. If they had destroyed the plans though, they could have used the element of doubt to keep their persecution of the Rebels alive through propaganda (though we don't know how much the general public knew about the situation.. probably little, considering their control of public information).

[PainRack]

Nightmare,I think we both have a mutual misunderstanding here.If their goal was to prevent Luke skywalker from escaping,then,their job was not only to interdict the ships in space,but also to interdict those ships on the ground.We see them actively deploying to stop any transports from escaping,both in space and in the base.


The problem was,they thought the Rebels were still staging their operations from the base.They were not.They have shifted to an exterior location,one which evaded the attention of the Empire.

THAT,was the failure.The Empire simply failed to notice that the Rebels have shifted their LZ to an exterior site.