Imperial Atrocities

[NecronLord]

Edited the massacres list (I think there's more evidence regarding twi'leks and such out there, so I'm holding off on that) to include the latest few, including Endor. Also specified that the various bits from Jedi Knight come from the novellisations, they don't actually commit any warcrimes (crimes, yes, including murder) in the game itself, as I recall. What title do you want on the last one?

[Darth Fanboy]

whatever you feel is appropriate, i'm just glad that this list is coming together so nicely.

[NecronLord]

Titled the last two (banned play, supression of the Coruscant demonstration) 'overzealous police action.' Both are examples where Imperial forces probably didn't start the violence, but applied very disproportionate force in response.

[Ender]

You left off Pitta's extermination fleets.

Also, how are you defining the Empire here? Because if it is until the destruction of the Ruling Council in CE2, there is much much more.

[Murazor]

According to the Lando Calrissian novels, the humans living in the Outer Rim Renatasia system (more primitive than galactic standard and lacking hyperdrive) were actively deceived by Imperial agents (the Imperial navy was definitely involved, but the possible responsible parties in the higher echelons of the Imperial state aren't directly identified) to soften it for a particularly violent campaign of conquest.

He ignored the threat: "That 'Admiral' is something in the nature of a joke, Sorcerer. In your terms I'm more of a squadron leader, and it's not much of a squadron. Core-for that matter, it's not much of a Confederation, either! But we have our points, as my letters of introduction demonstrated, I'm sure. You know about the Renatasia?"
Gepta nodded once again. Upon receiving the communication in question, he'd consulted references and had a conference with his kennel of government spies. What was to be learned was skimpy; there had been a highly energetic cover-up. Yet the essential facts were clear.
"It was a system and a culture colonized long before the current political status quo was achieved. It developed independently, unknown to the rest of the galaxy, and at a somewhat slower pace technologically. It was discovered, subverted, exploited, and obliterated by certain commercial interests acting in concert with the Navy. You, your squadron, and your Confederation are some of the rare survivors. Are these the fundamental elements of the story, Admiral Shanga?" The sibilance of Gepta's whisper echoed in the cavern.

The Renatasia had been a lovely system.
He recalled it vividly: eight plump planets and a cheerful medium-size yellow star set a surprising number of parsecs outside the then-current margins of the million-system Empire.
Apparently they'd been human-colonized in some dim spacefaring prehistory, although no records of the event Survived, either there or in "civilized" reaches. For the Administration a million systems, of course, were not enough. A billion wouldn't be. Thus Renatasia must be brought under its kindly influence.
Renatasia III and IV were the jewels in their cozy and conveniently isolated diadem. From space they appeared warm, lush, green and inhabited by a people who used steel, titanium, and simple organoplastics, were capable of wringing useful amounts of energy from the core of the atom, and who had not only reached but profitably colonized every one of the remaining six bodies in their system, from freeze-dried outermost, to charcoal flambed innermost-albeit under domes and in burrows, rather than through the total climatic transformation that even the Empire often found too expensive to pursue.
They had not quite reinvented faster-than-light spacedrives, although they were fiddling with its theoretical underpinnings.
Nor had they yet made the basic discoveries that would inevitably lead them to such mechanisms as deflector shields, tractor-pressor beams, disruptors, and disintegrators-a fact for which the Centrality navy was later to be rather embarrassedly grateful. For they could also fight, it developed, like the very devil. They'd been doing it for millennia.

Quotes from Lando Calrissian and the Starcave of ThonBoka.

[Murazor]

Also, the main site mentions an act of supreme dickery against the oceanic world of Gholondreine Beta that is referenced in Slave Ship. All the oceanic water in that world was sucked by Imperial transports (for use by the population of Coruscant or some such thing) turning the place into a desert, because the planetary government had been reluctant to implement the policies forced by the New Order. Although the Wookiee entry is a bit unclear, it says nothing of active resistance.

[Ender]

There was also the Forger bombarding Gra Ploven, creating steam clouds that cooked 200,000 beings alive

[NecronLord]

You left off Pitta's extermination fleets.

Holy Shit.

*Facepalm*

I've brought him up on this forum before, too. But it'd completely slipped my mind.

That said, I've seen it argued that he would have been doing this without state approval. Any thoughts on that?

[Agent Sorchus]

The Lurrians should possibly be removed from the list, due to the lack of evidence of imperial involvement in the enslavement. It is specifically mentioned that the empire had put their home world under quarantined to stop the spread of their knowledge. thus it is more likely to be the same sort of slavery as the twileks: criminal operation rather than imperial sponsored slavery.

(information about the imperial quarantine come from entry on the PD-series protocol droid)

[Ender]

You left off Pitta's extermination fleets.

Holy Shit.

*Facepalm*

I've brought him up on this forum before, too. But it'd completely slipped my mind.

That said, I've seen it argued that he would have been doing this without state approval. Any thoughts on that?

Yes, specifically the question "What are you, stupid?" for whomever takes that position. He was doing it with Imperial ships, Imperial armed forces personnel, on numerous imperial worlds. As a Grand Admiral he was making use of Imperial State resources rather than private resources that a Moff would have. He was openly doing it to curry favor in the Imperial Court. There is no way this was some "lone wolf" operation.

[Ender]

You know, beyond the context of the recent/current "debate" on the subject, this is something that would be really good on both the Imperial Wiki and Wook. I really recommend expanding and detailing these and adding them.

[lord Martiya]

Returning on the massacre on Falleen and the Human conscription, I find some problem in classifing them as VOLUNTARY atrocities.
The massacre was definitively an atrocity, but had some reason (stopping a lethal bacterium to spread on the entire planet. Killing a few to save many). I think that it was stupid place the laboratory in the city EXACTLY because that could happen, but the attack was necessary.
For the conscription, I have SERIOUS problems in considering it slavery, as in various states are still composed by conscripts (every living Italian born before 1986 was subjected to conscripton, and by law in wartime the armed forces are expanded with conscripts). So my question is: were Imperial armed forces partly composed by conscripts by law?

[Samuel]

There's also Castin Donn's story in Iron Fist. The Empire's idea of crowd control = open up into the crow with full auto blasterfire.

The essential guide to weapons mentions they did the same thing with flamethrowers and blamed the skyrocketing casulty rates on the rebels.

Returning on the massacre on Falleen and the Human conscription, I find some problem in classifing them as VOLUNTARY atrocities.
The massacre was definitively an atrocity, but had some reason (stopping a lethal bacterium to spread on the entire planet. Killing a few to save many). I think that it was stupid place the laboratory in the city EXACTLY because that could happen, but the attack was necessary.

Or you could quarentine and give out cures.

For the conscription, I have SERIOUS problems in considering it slavery, as in various states are still composed by conscripts (every living Italian born before 1986 was subjected to conscripton, and by law in wartime the armed forces are expanded with conscripts). So my question is: were Imperial armed forces partly composed by conscripts by law?

It depends on the length of service. Having to serve for a few years is different than having to serve indefinately or for decades, although I don't know the time they required. Conscription is mention in relation to the New Order under Palpatines article in Essential People and Characters. I'll try to find the quote.

[Darth Fanboy]

Returning on the massacre on Falleen and the Human conscription, I find some problem in classifing them as VOLUNTARY atrocities.
The massacre was definitively an atrocity, but had some reason (stopping a lethal bacterium to spread on the entire planet. Killing a few to save many). I think that it was stupid place the laboratory in the city EXACTLY because that could happen, but the attack was necessary.
For the conscription, I have SERIOUS problems in considering it slavery, as in various states are still composed by conscripts (every living Italian born before 1986 was subjected to conscripton, and by law in wartime the armed forces are expanded with conscripts). So my question is: were Imperial armed forces partly composed by conscripts by law?

With Falleen, the reason they had to kill 200,000 to stop the spread of the bioweapon is because Darth Vader ordered the development of a research facility inside a populated area. Even though the death of the 200,000 saved many more, those 200,000 should never have died because a moral government should never have been developing bioweapons in the first place!

And for a galaxy spanning government, I find it difficult to believe that the research had to be conducted on a populated world and not an isolated space station or unihabited world/moon.

As for the human conscription, the only example of it I can remember is Zeth Durron.

[CaptHawkeye]

This is what I like to call the "Revolutionary's Dilemma." Allow the evil government to stand and continue its wanton murder, extortion, and pillage. Or topple it, destroying the center of authority and turning your nation into a fragmented war torn hell hole.

Frankly, the Empire has never come off as any kind of "benevolent" from base design to detailed portrayal. They blew up a fucking planet at the drop of a hat after all. No brand of bullshit is strong enough to cover that ass. The thing that annoys me is how they are usually portrayed. More often than not Imperial Officers are portrayed as mind-numbingly stupid comic book villains with zero character development other than some mumbled "rebel scum" lines.

[Pelranius]

Umm, how does the Third Battle of Theed count? It was more of a police action than anything else (I am assuming that you are talking about the mission in SW Battlefronts?)

Third Battle of Theed was in the Last of the Jedi Series, where it is shown that the Empire is stockpiling large amounts of banned explosives on the planet and the Naboo Security Forces and Gungans end up fighting the Empire.

Ah, but you revealed something to me, I attached the Battle of Naboo from SW Battlegrounds to it as a side note without properly mentioning the source, thanks. Regarding that, I believe that the Empire's assasination of the Naboo Queen was a pretty scummy thing to do.

Considering that Naboo was engaged in rebellion, she got the typical punishment for treason, and she was resisting arrest with a blaster in hand, so calling it an assassination is hardly proper.

[Bladed_Crescent]

I didn't see these in the thread, so hopefully I haven't overlooked anything:

Enslaved by the Empire, who exploited the Yevetha as skilled labor. Yevethan females were used as sex slaves, and Yevethans killed by the Empire had their remains publically displayed at places such as schools in order to inhibit dissention. The Yevethans rebelled just before the Empire was to begin a mass execution of its slaves.

I would be wary of using this information. To be clear: there's no question that the Empire conquered and enslaved the Yevetha and used them as enforced labour, but the "females as sex slaves" and "public display of remains" only comes from Nil Spaar in his (wholly fraudulent) discussions with Leia. Later, when she's talking to an Imperial POW about the Yevetha, he mentions none of this - and he admitted to the 'creating steam clouds that boiled 200,000 Ploven alive' on the basis that "the little finbacks refused to pay their protection money and that made the Moff cranky". He instead says that the Imperial personnel were strongly discouraged from interacting with the Yevetha at all.

Again, this isn't to say that the Empire didn't enslave and exploit the Yevetha, just that those claims in particular should be considered suspect, given their source.

Another couple for the list of Imperial misdeeds:

Firstly, the Emperor turned a blind eye to the activities of Black Sun, the largest criminal organization in the galaxy. In fact, Prince Xizor was a confidant of Palpatine, aware of the DS 2's construction and privy to other secrets, so he clearly wasn't 'just tolerated' or some other nonsense. (Shadows of the Empire) Vader had to go outside of channels in order to attack the organization (Tales of the Empire: Side Trip), or wait for Xizor to screw up.

I don't know if you'd call that an "atrocity" per se, but Black Sun trafficked in drugs, weapons, slaves and was responsible for an untold level of misery.

Secondly, there was the slaving operation on Ylesia run by the Huttese kajidic Besadaii; they may have operated in Hutt Space, but the Empire was well aware of them. They sold spice to the Empire and the more attractive "pilgrims" were sold to Imperial pleasure houses as comfort women/men for the troops. (Paradise Snare, Hutt Gambit, Rebel Dawn)

Dia Passik had a slave background of some sort. I'd have to grab a copy of Iron Fist for the quotes though.

You recall correctly; her owner was an important Coruscanti; his company made "very reliable HoloNet receivers"; (this is only supposition, but given the Imperial control over the HoloNet, it's... doubtful he never appeared in Palpatine's court). He even named his yacht The Violet Hem as a reference to the Emperor's robes.

[Ender]

And let us not forget that the Empire was born with the deaths of the Jedi children. The first action ordered after he was exposed and given cause - ordering the deaths of the Jedi, including the children.

[Havok]

Would the entire Jedi purge qualify?

[Darth Fanboy]

I would be wary of using this information. To be clear: there's no question that the Empire conquered and enslaved the Yevetha and used them as enforced labour, but the "females as sex slaves" and "public display of remains" only comes from Nil Spaar in his (wholly fraudulent) discussions with Leia.

To that my response is, what could Spaar have gained from lying about those details? Did he think Leia would be less sympathetic if they were only put into forced labor?

Later, when she's talking to an Imperial POW about the Yevetha, he mentions none of this - and he admitted to the 'creating steam clouds that boiled 200,000 Ploven alive' on the basis that "the little finbacks refused to pay their protection money and that made the Moff cranky". He instead says that the Imperial personnel were strongly discouraged from interacting with the Yevetha at all.

Why would an Imperial POW discuss possible war crimes to a representative of an enemy government? The POW was likely a part of any injustices against them.

Again, this isn't to say that the Empire didn't enslave and exploit the Yevetha, just that those claims in particular should be considered suspect, given their source.

Duly noted and thanks for bringing it up. It might be prudent to double check the Yevetha entries in the other literature, which I don't have anymore.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Should we compose a list of worlds coerced by military force to join the Empire, or attacked? I could think of a few, like Dornia and Hapes, which were attacked repeatedly in the course of Imperial history.

[Darth Fanboy]

Should we compose a list of worlds coerced by military force to join the Empire, or attacked? I could think of a few, like Dornia and Hapes, which were attacked repeatedly in the course of Imperial history.

I believe that would be appropriate, and wouldn't the issues with the Hapan Consortium then extend to all of the worlds ruled by Hapes?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Should we compose a list of worlds coerced by military force to join the Empire, or attacked? I could think of a few, like Dornia and Hapes, which were attacked repeatedly in the course of Imperial history.

I believe that would be appropriate, and wouldn't the issues with the Hapan Consortium then extend to all of the worlds ruled by Hapes?

Pretty much. The Hapes Consortium was isolationist, and they had managed to capture tens of ISDs over the course of Imperial history. Quite a remarkable number.

[The Original Nex]

Should we compose a list of worlds coerced by military force to join the Empire, or attacked? I could think of a few, like Dornia and Hapes, which were attacked repeatedly in the course of Imperial history.

Military adventurism and expansionism qualifies as "atrocities" now?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Should we compose a list of worlds coerced by military force to join the Empire, or attacked? I could think of a few, like Dornia and Hapes, which were attacked repeatedly in the course of Imperial history.

Military adventurism and expansionism qualifies as "atrocities" now?

Not exactly an 'atrocity' per se, but it has been observed at least once where conquest was followed by enslavement. Taking the Calamarians, Wookiees as an example.

To add on to the OP, there's also the Kessel prison world (and other prison worlds), where political prisoners etc. are worked to death there.