RogueIce wrote:I'm rather curious at what the swipe to Denning was. I mean, I know she used various moments in Order 66 to take potshots at the fans (lol there can't possibly be quintillions of droids lol!) but another SW author? Damn.
It's here You have to scroll down a bit to find it. Denning comes in later IIRC and comments that its not really a potshot (at least not on his side) but its basically over some LOFT stuff with some nanovirus.
Ah. Didn't read LOTF at all, so dunno. But the picture Havac first posted in the comment thread when he said he'd read it was gold:
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
I considered doing a detailed review like I did for Order 66.
Frankly, I just don't feel it. This book was tiring to read (primarily due to heavy use of Man'doa), and going through it again, looking up examples of stupidity, hypocrisy, women swooning over clones and other Mandos, and Traviss's views on Jedi presented as fact was too much. I don't feel I can be uniquely scathing (especially after reading Havok's take on it) to justify the effort.
I will mention several aspects that glared out. In Revelation, KT, using her mouthpiece Jedi-Turned-Mando (and now Kal Skirata's son) Bardan Jusik, lectured Jaina Solo and by extension, the readers that using the Force is evil because you start using it to help your family. Guess what Jusik does throughout the book (and planning to do on an even greater scale in the next book)? Use his Force powers to help Mandos. How did the hypocrisy get past anyone? Did KT think it'd get past the readers?
The book also touches on two issues I brought up in my review of Order 66:
page 360 of Order 66 wrote:
Now do you see? Do you? Vau hissed the sibilant like escaping steam. Mird cowered on the floor, whining softly. "I'm sick to death of your sentimental twaddle about Jango betraying is by letting Kamino use his genes. He did it to stop the Jedi. He did it to create an army strong enough to bring them down. You drone on about the injustice of unelected elites, my little working-class hero--well, now they're gone. Yes, it cost our boys' lives, but the Jedi are gone, gone, gone. And they won't be killing Mandalorians again, not for a long time. Maybe never.
This is not a joke, and it's elaborated in Imperial Commando. KT's Mandalorian mouthpieces call it "Jango's war". KT takes seriously the idea that Jango Fett agreed to be the template because it was his plan to destroy the Jedi. Yeah. Palpatine wasn't the mastermind behind the eradication. Jango Fett was.
Me in review of Order 66 wrote:
page 365 wrote:
"I've never disobeyed an order," said the ARC captain. Zey didn't seem to have the strength to turn and look at his former aide, just shutting his eyes as if he was waiting for the coup de grâce. "What am I supposed to do? Pick and choose? That's the irony. The Jedi thought we were excellent troops because we're so disciplined and we obey orders, but when we obey all orders--and they're lawful orders, remember--then we've betrayed them. Can't have it both ways, General."
That's the reasoning of an SS guard at Auschwitz. Congratulations, KT. No one thinks that in Order 66 the clones betrayed the Jedi. Clones were tools--literally. The betrayer of the Jedi (and the Republic) was Palpatine. But this monologue shouldn't exist at all. Clones had no choice but to carry out Order 66. Physically incapable--otherwise, event their creation makes absolutely no sense.
Apparently, someone pointed this out to KT after the book came out. And we can't make the clones look bad in any way. So:
Spoiler
Arligan Zey is alive.
Here, KT You killed off much better characters than you ever created, and you bring back one of yours just so the image of the clones you love so much for no apparent reason doesn't get tarnished.
And one last thing: KT decided to put hard numbers on the SW universe again. According to her, the density of transparisteel is 2500kg/m^3. Anyone in the know-how who can tell how reasonable that is?
Jesse Helms died on the 4th of July and the nation celebrated with fireworks, BBQs and a day off for everyone. -- Ed Brayton, Dispatches from the Culture Wars
"And a force-sensitive mandalorian female Bountyhunter, who is also the granddaughter of Darth Vader is as cool as it can get. Almost absolute zero." -- FTeik
General Soontir Fel wrote:
And one last thing: KT decided to put hard numbers on the SW universe again. According to her, the density of transparisteel is 2500kg/m^3. Anyone in the know-how who can tell how reasonable that is?
It's about the density of bottle and window glasses.
From here.
[...]
"Ordinary bottle and window glasses have densities in the region of 2.5. That of lead crystal glass is approximately 3.1, of "densest flint"optical glass 7.2, and of fused silica 2.2"
[...]
The density of glass varies with each type and ranges from 2000 to 8000 kg/m3 (for comparison, from less dense than aluminum to more dense than iron) at standard conditions. Flint glass can be so much denser than crown glass because flint glass contains lead, which is a very dense element.
"In view of the circumstances, Britannia waives the rules."
"All you have to do is to look at Northern Ireland, [...] to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable." George Carlin
"We need to make gay people live in fear again! What ever happened to the traditional family values of persecution and lies?" - Darth Wong
"The closet got full and some homosexuals may have escaped onto the internet?"- Stormbringer
And this stuff is supposed to stand up to blaster fire? Yes, it is pretty much a magic material already, but this is ridiculous.
Does anyone else get the feeling that she is doing this on purpose to spite us?
"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books."
she wrote odds, so yeah. Hoth's right on the money there. I also remember how afterwards one of the things that caused her to loose fans was how she ruined scout from dark rendevouz. Many who were fans of the book were.... kind of outraged. Anyway, they confirmed that Karen Miller (or some other author) will finish the book, not Karen Traviss. Hopefully the author will be able to do a better job.
The very idea that Jango Fett had the slightest fucking clue of Darth Sidious' plan - when he had never even fucking met him - is so mind-bogglingly retarded its enough to make one go into seizures. Luckily, all Traviss' idiotic ravings really demonstrate is that her Mando mouthpieces are fucking delusional.
Vympel wrote:The very idea that Jango Fett had the slightest fucking clue of Darth Sidious' plan - when he had never even fucking met him - is so mind-bogglingly retarded its enough to make one go into seizures. Luckily, all Traviss' idiotic ravings really demonstrate is that her Mando mouthpieces are fucking delusional.
Especially when I think that comics and that Bounty Hunter game indicated that Fett was purely in it for the money. But of course, a Fett can't be morally bankrupt!
Anyway, so that notion is only speculated by characters?
"No, no, no, no! Light speed's too slow! Yes, we're gonna have to go right to... Ludicrous speed!"
Aside from the very humorous Glittery Boba, fucking A...that review was painful. Painful because even if half that shit is not his point of view but what Traviss deems as story, I'm glad to never read any of it. I feel sorry for the poor fuck.
Smaller bite size version: None of the plots within the book is resolved. People talk, Mandos act like the racist Klingons in TNG (ie You are a good warrior, you must have KLINGON IN YOU!), and rampant death is okay. Oh and the Jedi are the evil ones, but the actions of the noble Mandos commiting genocide...that's okay.
Fucking A, I need mouthwash to rinse the taste from what the review gave me.
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Srelex wrote:Especially when I think that comics and that Bounty Hunter game indicated that Fett was purely in it for the money. But of course, a Fett can't be morally bankrupt!
Anyway, so that notion is only speculated by characters?
Sadly, "scummier"/morally bankrupt Jango sounds more awesome than her impression of Mandos. Something about the "noble warrior"... no, after Stuart's Armageddon????, I can't buy the concept any more, whereas Bounty Hunter Jango wrecked more shit and got it done. GO GREEDY JANGO!
(Incidental thought... maybe the thinking/mindset behind my response just now has something to do with Darth Wong's "rooting for the villain in Avatar" thread?)
"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. " - bcoogler on this
"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists." SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
in true colors one of the mandoa words is dema'golka (named after Demagol, a scientist who sold his own child into slavery and who performed Joseph mengele style experiments on men women and children) meaning "utter psycopath." That's the only one I know of, but it wasn't hostile. It just tried to portray demagol as an anomaly.
Darth Yan wrote:in true colors one of the mandoa words is dema'golka (named after Demagol, a scientist who sold his own child into slavery and who performed Joseph mengele style experiments on men women and children) meaning "utter psycopath." That's the only one I know of, but it wasn't hostile. It just tried to portray demagol as an anomaly.
Holy fuck. This made me remember something that deserves to be quoted for its full stupidity:
page 300 wrote:
Everyone's got some serious dirt in their history, ma'am. In the days of the Old Republic, we Mandalorians wiped out at least one sentient species just to prove we could--the Cathar. Are we ashamed of that? I hope so. But if anyone tries to wipe us out again, I feel better knowing we once did something to deserve our fate. It's easer to take than just being spotless victims.
Wonderful Mandos.
Jesse Helms died on the 4th of July and the nation celebrated with fireworks, BBQs and a day off for everyone. -- Ed Brayton, Dispatches from the Culture Wars
"And a force-sensitive mandalorian female Bountyhunter, who is also the granddaughter of Darth Vader is as cool as it can get. Almost absolute zero." -- FTeik
Darth Yan wrote:in true colors one of the mandoa words is dema'golka (named after Demagol, a scientist who sold his own child into slavery and who performed Joseph mengele style experiments on men women and children) meaning "utter psycopath." That's the only one I know of, but it wasn't hostile. It just tried to portray demagol as an anomaly.
Holy fuck. This made me remember something that deserves to be quoted for its full stupidity:
page 300 wrote:
Everyone's got some serious dirt in their history, ma'am. In the days of the Old Republic, we Mandalorians wiped out at least one sentient species just to prove we could--the Cathar. Are we ashamed of that? I hope so. But if anyone tries to wipe us out again, I feel better knowing we once did something to deserve our fate. It's easer to take than just being spotless victims.
Wonderful Mandos.
Eh? I'm not particularly well up on the EU, but as far as I can recall, Cathars still exist in the Imperial era, and according to Wookiee, their homeworld and population had recovered by then. Oh, wait, Traviss gets all her information from the Holocron, doesn't she? They must not have noted that in the entry.
Invited by the new age, the elegant Sailor Neptune!
I mean, how often am I to enter a game of riddles with the author, where they challenge me with some strange and confusing and distracting device, and I'm supposed to unravel it and go "I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE" and take great personal satisfaction and pride in our mutual cleverness?
You killed off much better characters than you ever created, and you bring back one of yours just so the image of the clones you love so much for no apparent reason doesn't get tarnished.
" - 
