How Many Star Destroyers?

[Trytostaydead]

There were 25,000 Star Destroyers. That's it. Just 25,000. The official evidence is quite explicit.

So which leads to the question, exactly how strong IS an ISD? I mean, it's so hard to tell. In some instances you get Rogue squadron which can seemingly take out an entire SD's complement of tie fighters. Han Solo can destroy an SD by himself with a little distraction (Courtship of Princess Leia). An A-wing was enough to plummet a SSD into the Death Star (why weren't there fail safe navigational systems?).

Was 25,000 enough to hold down an entire galaxy?

[Jordie]

In some instances you get Rogue squadron which can seemingly take out an entire SD's complement of tie fighters. Han Solo can destroy an SD by himself with a little distraction (Courtship of Princess Leia).

that can be explain by 2 words, stupid writers.

An A-wing was enough to plummet a SSD into the Death Star (why weren't there fail safe navigational systems?).

The Executor's shields were taken out by bombardment from other capitol ships.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

This first 2 can be explain by 2 words, stupid writers. The Executor's shields were taken out by bombardment from other capitol ships.

Indeed Stackpole's wankfest of invincible X-Wings able to kill ISDs with ease should be regarded at the ass-end of all resources when you want to judge the capabilitites of an ISD.

And yes, it wasn't a lone A-Wing that killed the Executor. It was 30 minutes of constant bombardment from Rebel Mon Cal Cruisers.

[Axis Kast]

Can anybody dig up the evidence that supports there ever being 200 Star Destroyers in the Imperial Remnant c. Vision of the Future? Or even the data in Spectre of the Past acknowledging fleets of up to 25,000 Star Destroyers during Thrawn’s time?

Dalaa’s fleet seems to make more sense. Around one hundred Victory-class Star Destroyers and forty-five Imperial-type vessels at any one gathering point. At least it corresponds with impressions of proper battle-group strength.

I suppose, for all intents and purposes, that the vessels at the collapse of the Galactic Empire were scrapped, decommissioned, destroyed, or left derelict under the following circumstances:

• A substantial number of Star Destroyers (as well as support vessels) would have consigned themselves to service in the name of a large planet able to support them materially. Kuat, Fondor, Corellia, Coruscant, Bastion, Yaga Minor, Bilbringi, Mon Calamari, and Sluis Van all come to mind here.

• Very many Star Destroyers (and an equally large number of support vessels – especially torpedo spheres and dreadnaughts) would have been decomissioned as part of the overall scrapping of Palpatine’s military-industrial complex. This trend likely helps cover, to the best of our reasoning, the loss of so many vessels.

• Thousands of Star Destroyers (though I’d like to say only hundreds) likely fell victim to internal power struggles or blockade (and thus forced over-consumption of resources). Many were probably left derelict after being unable to find safe haven or gain access to large-scale shipyards following major conflicts.

• Thousands of Star Destroyers (again, one would think only hundreds or even dozens) were destroyed by the New Republic during the post-Palpatine engagement of isolated garrison worlds or Imperial fleets whose cohesion was no longer absolute.

• Thousands of Star Destroyers (and this is a huge number) would have been abandoned for scrap unintentionally, again the victim of a crumbling infrastructure. They might have served – unlike the decomissioned vessels – for a short time before being declared unservicable due to lack of maintenance facilities.

• Thousands of Star Destroyers must have joined smaller “sector patrols” under the New Republic’s aegis. As has been suggested, if twenty-four were in a Sector Fleet, the scope of the galaxy and its demands for security would have drawn off nearly ten thousand of these vessels on their own.

The new NJO series seems to portray ISDs in a good light, acknowledging their ability to soak huge quantities of damage and serve as pseudo-carriers where necessary. Two or three are sufficient to turn the tide of a large battle between fleet groups of capital ships.

[phongn]

During the height of the Empire, there were arounf 2,500,000 SDs. By the time of the Hand of Thrawn Series, that number had dropped to 25,000.

2 million ISDs? Where the fuck are getting that from?
And what kind of drugs are you doing?

The top-end estimate I've seen for the Imperial Starfleet (inclusive of an "Imperial Navy" which serves as the offensive arm of the Starfleet) has approximately 2.1 million warships in the 1-1.6km length range.

If you begin extrapolating from the Dodonna Estimate then we get even larger numbers of warships; Marina's postulates about 6-7e9 warships (split between FTL and non-FTL ships); Conner considers that about low-end for the DE.

[Lord Pounder]

During the height of the Empire, there were arounf 2,500,000 SDs. By the time of the Hand of Thrawn Series, that number had dropped to 25,000.

Have you actually read any of the fucking books?

[Stormbringer]

Vision of the Future put the amount of ISDs held by the Remnant at 200, and the previous amount (at the Empire's height) at 25,000.

Neither figure makes much sense.

Why? Obviously the Empire had to spend a great deal of effort to keep th system's in line. 25,000 ISDs (and just ISDs) seems reasonable enough. There are other larger and other smaller ships that round out the fleet.

And what's wrong with 200 ISDs? Given a fleet size of 25,000 and two decades of civil war that number makes a fair amount of sense given the number of worlds the Remamnent holds.

[Trytostaydead]

Why? Obviously the Empire had to spend a great deal of effort to keep th system's in line. 25,000 ISDs (and just ISDs) seems reasonable enough. There are other larger and other smaller ships that round out the fleet.

And what's wrong with 200 ISDs? Given a fleet size of 25,000 and two decades of civil war that number makes a fair amount of sense given the number of worlds the Remamnent holds.

200 ISDs should reasonably be enough to hold down eight sectors, especially when a majority are loyal to the Empire. At 1,000 systems, you'll have maybe 5 systems to be patrolled by a single SD not including various other warships and lesser escorts. Not too bad, considering an SD can fully pacify an entire system by its lonesome.

Another question is, how quickly are SDs built? The Remnant was down to one major shipyard devoted to cap-ship production. How long does it take to pump out an SD?

[Crayz9000]

Can anybody dig up the evidence that supports there ever being 200 Star Destroyers in the Imperial Remnant c. Vision of the Future? Or even the data in Spectre of the Past acknowledging fleets of up to 25,000 Star Destroyers during Thrawn’s time?

I was going to give the quote earlier, but I couldn't find it.

Spectre of the Past, pages 5-6

"We still hold eight sectors -- over a thousand inhabited systems. We have the Fleet, nearly two hundred Star Destroyers strong. We're still very much a force to be reckoned with."

A thousand systems left, out of an Empire that had once spanned a million. Two hundred Star Destroyers remaining from a fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them.

Mind you, I am somewhat biased; I honestly prefer Marina's fleet size estimates to the official ones, given the amount of research she put into it. For a million member worlds and *50 million* colonies and protectorates, 25,000 ISDs is completely insignificant...

[Illuminatus Primus]

Vision of the Future put the amount of ISDs held by the Remnant at 200, and the previous amount (at the Empire's height) at 25,000.

Neither figure makes much sense.

Why? Obviously the Empire had to spend a great deal of effort to keep th system's in line. 25,000 ISDs (and just ISDs) seems reasonable enough. There are other larger and other smaller ships that round out the fleet.

And what's wrong with 200 ISDs? Given a fleet size of 25,000 and two decades of civil war that number makes a fair amount of sense given the number of worlds the Remamnent holds.

I think he means (and I agree with him) that the figures are too low.

I prefer Marina's.

[phongn]

Marina's estimate is even considered a bit low-ball, it could be several orders of magnitude higher.

I wonder how large the NR's war machine is, including all those independant planatary/system defense forces.

[Connor MacLeod]

Has anyone considered just what sort of fleet the Empire MUST have given the Dodonna calcs? Just for each vessel to have an average firepower of 1e25-1e26 watts requires something on the order of trillions to tens of trillions of warships. And that figure increases quite substantially when you modify for smaller classes.