The Battle Of Hoth The Empire's Most Hollow Victory

[Sea Skimmer]

The Illustrated Guide to the SW Universe clearly shows two partially constructed DS's in Coruscant orbit.

I thought that illustration came from a conceptual drawing from an early draft of the ROTJ script that had two death stars and Luke would be given one if he turned to the Darkside....I thought i read that somwhere but as usual I can be wrong.

Doesn't look like any concept art I've ever seen for Star Wars, though it doesn’t look to much like the comics either. Still Saxton says it is, and I'll take his word on it. Course even if it is, the Z-95 and Victory are also both discarded concept art..

[BioDroid]

Skywalker was a rallying cry for the Rebellion....The last Jedi! The Guardian of Peace and Justice! (Who cares if it's wrong on many levels.) With Skywalker as a propaganda tool, support for the rebellion would have risen. Who knows the chaos that the Empire went through when the snot nosed whiny bugger took out the DS?

[Crazy_Vasey]

The Death stars being built around Coruscant were the in the scripts first draft I think when Coruscant was called Had Abbadon and the end battle had Yoda and Obi-Wan coming back to life in what would have been the lamest ending to the saga possible IMO. I mean while Luke and Vader were fighting Ben and Palpy were just stood around talking

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Do you think there were really that many ships intended to be in the fleet in the movies? In RotJ we still don't see a great increase of ships. How many years was it between movies anyway?

2 years

[irishmick79]

During the Rebellion era, Luke is probably the most important figure in the galaxy outside the emperor himself. He is the Rebellion rallying cry as previously mentioned, and his skills help protect the rebel command. Without him there is no redemption for Anakin Skywalker, and Leia becomes extremely vulnerable to the Emperor and Vader.

If Luke turns to the dark side, he is then in a position where he can betray the entire Rebel Command to the Emperor. The rebellion as we knew it would almost certainly have been crushed if that had occured. Another rebellion might have rose up in time, but they would have had to start completely from scratch again.

[Morte]

The Death stars being built around Coruscant were the in the scripts first draft I think when Coruscant was called Had Abbadon and the end battle had Yoda and Obi-Wan coming back to life in what would have been the lamest ending to the saga possible IMO. I mean while Luke and Vader were fighting Ben and Palpy were just stood around talking

Everybody can read it for themselves: http://www.starwarz.com/starkiller/scri ... _draft.htm

But you're right. Had this gone to the movies... I shudder to think about it.
To be fair, there are some elements that I think should have been retained, such as the fact that the battle occured above the Imperial capital. But the Yoda and Ben reserruction, *groan*. And you thought TPM was bad.

There are some peculiarities though... for instance lightsabres are referred to as 'laserswords'. Why would Lucas not be referring to them as lightsabres by now, after he's already made two movies?

I don't mean to highjack the thread, so here's my contribution:

I think the fact that Palpatine considers Luke to be a threat ("He could destroy us") pretty much settles the matter, whether Luke is actually a threat or not. Palpatine feels threatened by Luke, therefore Luke is a threat. The entire Death Star was conceived as a colossal trap to bring Luke to the Emperor so that Vader and the Emperor could turn him together.

On the other hand... perhaps it was Palpatine's plan all along to have Luke slay Vader and join him.[/url]

[Isolder74]

Well back to the Battle of Hoth, the Imperial ground forces anailated the Rebel defense line but the rebels still held them up for long enough for most of the rebel transports to lift off and get off planet.

[Stuart Mackey]

Well back to the Battle of Hoth, the Imperial ground forces anailated the Rebel defense line but the rebels still held them up for long enough for most of the rebel transports to lift off and get off planet.

Not really, in the movie the rebs started evacuating long befor contact with imperial troops, what you saw was the reargaurd in action, nothing more.

[Master of Ossus]

Well back to the Battle of Hoth, the Imperial ground forces anailated the Rebel defense line but the rebels still held them up for long enough for most of the rebel transports to lift off and get off planet.

That is why I think that people who say that the Imps should have waited for infantry support are wrong. It took them long enough as it was. Many of the rebels still escaped. If they had waited longer, they would not have even won a victory.

[Isolder74]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Commander LeoRo:
Has anyone ever wondered why the Rebels didn't spare a couple of X-Wings to destroy the Imperial Walkers? The rebels were not facing any Imperial Fighters or AAA fire. They could have easily destroyed them. A near miss of a proton torpedo would have probablyat least knocked down a walker.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why? All of the X-Wings were needed to escort the transports to safety. if this wasn't the case they would have had more than 2 X-Wings covering each transports. Remember they had just moved in to the Echo Base. The Transports used to evacuate probably had barely just unloaded the supplies and personel that they were evacuating.
_________________

[Andras]

Remeber these where bascily un-armed transports not-disimilar from in use by Shipping Company Transports, not heavly armored military Transports, piles of junk basicly

Just a side note, I feel that the Gallofrees being described as un armed by far too many EU sorces is wrong. In RotJ, there are plenty of them in the middle of the fight. Why would they be present if they were un armed?

According to the novel, the cargo vessels were there as 'fireships' they were loaded with explosives and set on collision courses with Imperial vessels, then the crew would abandon ship at the last minute.

[Cal Wright]

Remeber these where bascily un-armed transports not-disimilar from in use by Shipping Company Transports, not heavly armored military Transports, piles of junk basicly

Just a side note, I feel that the Gallofrees being described as un armed by far too many EU sorces is wrong. In RotJ, there are plenty of them in the middle of the fight. Why would they be present if they were un armed?

According to the novel, the cargo vessels were there as 'fireships' they were loaded with explosives and set on collision courses with Imperial vessels, then the crew would abandon ship at the last minute.

Now I remember them mentioning ships with explosives. However, they never did that in the movie, and in the novel some were said to have actually impacted. I still think they had defenses of some sort.

[Isolder74]

Anyway it was the escape of the rebel personel that gave the rebels somewhat of a victory in the battle. In that first transport was technitions and engineers and other supplies that were important to their war effort their ecsape as well as many of the others kept the Alliance's R&D projects going allowing things like the B-Wing and A-Wing to be completed. The ships themselves were cheap.

[Isolder74]

It is apparent that some transports got away even before the Imperials arrived. But the leaders of the rebels didn't leave right away so they weren't all that smart either or thought their presence valuable for a moral sence

[Kuja]

...managed to ecsape as well a many of the top pilot from Rouge Squadron.

Half of Rogue Squadron was killed, including Zev Senesca and Dak Ralter.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

If the ISD hadn't exited hyperspace so close to the planet, the Rebels would have been crushed. Also, it was good Rebel strategies such as evacuating the important personnel off first that allowed the Rebels to survive. However, that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. What if the first transport didn't make it?

[Kuja]

If the ISD hadn't exited hyperspace so close to the planet, the Rebels would have been crushed. Also, it was good Rebel strategies such as evacuating the important personnel off first that allowed the Rebels to survive. However, that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. What if the first transport didn't make it?

Yes, all the SDs focused on the QUANTUM STORM, the first transport out. It was due to sheer luck and an unwillingness to shoot close to another SD (the Tyrant) that the ship made it out.

[Isolder74]

...managed to ecsape as well a many of the top pilot from Rouge Squadron.

Half of Rogue Squadron was killed, including Zev Senesca and Dak Ralter.

Half of your aces isn't all that bad

[Isolder74]

If the ISD hadn't exited hyperspace so close to the planet, the Rebels would have been crushed. Also, it was good Rebel strategies such as evacuating the important personnel off first that allowed the Rebels to survive. However, that would be putting all your eggs in one basket. What if the first transport didn't make it?

Yes, all the SDs focused on the QUANTUM STORM, the first transport out. It was due to sheer luck and an unwillingness to shoot close to another SD (the Tyrant) that the ship made it out.

Would you want to explain to Vader why you killed a Imp SD just to get a cheap transport?

[Kuja]

my point exactly.

[Isolder74]

my point exactly.

Just wanted to make sure the others got it too

[Kuja]

Ah. Okiedokie!

[Isolder74]

Ah. Okiedokie!

No worries mate

[Guest]

The Emperor let his hatred of the Jedi distract him from the threat of the Rebellion - A direct quote from mara Jade who would have known Palpy better than anyone except Vader.

It was a costly victory but only because that idiot Vader took the fleet into a astroid field and wrecked half the fleet

"judging from the amount of damage we have suffered they must be destroyed" a good indication that the Fleet suffered heavy losses.

Why didn't the fleet had Inderdictor Cruisers with them to stop the Transports entering hyperspace?

[Akm72]

Why didn't the fleet had Inderdictor Cruisers with them to stop the Transports entering hyperspace?

Because Interdictor Cruisers are from the EU, not the canon, and hadn't been invented by WEG at the time of ESB.