Mace Windu vs Darth Maul

[vakundok]

Maul.
In the novelization Qui-Gonn was said to be one of the finest swordsmen and an experienced warrior and Maul clearly outmatched him.

[NecronLord]

Maul and Mace cannot use the same style; their weapons are drastically different (even when Maul's has only one blade extended, the length of the hilt makes it still a significantly different weapon to wield).

This is common sense for anyone who knows anything about melee weapons.

Not neccesserily, as the blade is massless, mass being the defining characteristic for control of the weapon. Maul could simply grip one end of the hilt, remember he has a shorter blade than a normal sabre to compensate when using it in this way.

Even so the ease with which he compensated for having the sabre sliced in two would indicate that he is widely trained in different styles.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

IIRC, Exar Kun, Dooku and most of the Sith usually use Form II, since it's focused on lightsabre duels.

Qui-Gon lost by a split-second error: Maul parried his sabre, turned around looking like a stupid/run away move, and stabbed Qui-Gon with his hilt positioned blade while Qui-Gon was going to strike him, Maul programmed his opponent to his death.

Judging by the appearance between Windu and Qui-Gon I think Windu is much more careful and precise to make such a mistake, and probably wont take any damn from the decieving moves of Maul, Maul would lose a lot of advantage and get killed.

[Boba Fett]

IIRC, Exar Kun, Dooku and most of the Sith usually use Form II, since it's focused on lightsabre duels.

Qui-Gon lost by a split-second error: Maul parried his sabre, turned around looking like a stupid/run away move, and stabbed Qui-Gon with his hilt positioned blade while Qui-Gon was going to strike him, Maul programmed his opponent to his death.

Judging by the appearance between Windu and Qui-Gon I think Windu is much more careful and precise to make such a mistake, and probably wont take any damn from the decieving moves of Maul, Maul would lose a lot of advantage and get killed.

By that time Qui-Gon was also very-very tired...

...and talking about Windu being careful and precise...

Windu was holding a lightsaber to the throat of Jango on the balcony when the real danger was Dooku. Do you think Dooku cared about Jango's death?
When Mace turned around to see the incoming battle droids he let Jango and Dooku to act as they will behind his back.
That's one of the stupidest thing I've seen in AotC.

He's a good defensive warrior but would lose against Maul in a long fight.

[Lord_Xerxes]

I think characterising Mace Windu's style as unimpressive would be missing the point.

Nick is the man. This is my second go-round with Nick--he also did Shaft. Now he's doing lightsaber battles for us all, and a lot of Kendo stuff. I guess that, because I'm such a fan of Japanese samurai movies and I've watched a lot of Kendo fights, I'm doing pretty well at it. It's basically a lot more footwork than I thought. For the sword stuff, getting the feet right and getting the steps so you can actually do it right--it's a lot like dance choreography. The feet have to be right so that the strikes look correct.

He's put together a pretty exciting and incredible fight for me. And since I'm supposedly the second baddest person in the universe, I'm pretty efficient. I don't do a lot of fancy sword-twirling or anything. I dispense people pretty quickly, use as little energy as possible. But I'm pretty bad.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/feat ... index.html

In other words, it's cleaner, less flashy, than Maul's style. Upon looking back at what I can remember of EPII, I think I agree.

And this is the EXACT point I've been trying to make about Obi-Wan when he was younger, and Yoda's styles of fighting. "Use as little energy as possible". Don't be wasteful. Thank you, Samuel L.

[Lord_Xerxes]

IIRC, Exar Kun, Dooku and most of the Sith usually use Form II, since it's focused on lightsabre duels.

Qui-Gon lost by a split-second error: Maul parried his sabre, turned around looking like a stupid/run away move, and stabbed Qui-Gon with his hilt positioned blade while Qui-Gon was going to strike him, Maul programmed his opponent to his death.

That's not what I was seeing. Maul hit his saber into his face, then high, and impaled him while he was shocked by the blow.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

By that time Qui-Gon was also very-very tired...

...and talking about Windu being careful and precise...

Windu was holding a lightsaber to the throat of Jango on the balcony when the real danger was Dooku. Do you think Dooku cared about Jango's death?
When Mace turned around to see the incoming battle droids he let Jango and Dooku to act as they will behind his back.
That's one of the stupidest thing I've seen in AotC.

He's a good defensive warrior but would lose against Maul in a long fight.

I think the stupidity of decisions in an affair have nothing to do with one's fighting, but yes, Maul has the stamina.

[Boba Fett]

By that time Qui-Gon was also very-very tired...

...and talking about Windu being careful and precise...

Windu was holding a lightsaber to the throat of Jango on the balcony when the real danger was Dooku. Do you think Dooku cared about Jango's death?
When Mace turned around to see the incoming battle droids he let Jango and Dooku to act as they will behind his back.
That's one of the stupidest thing I've seen in AotC.

He's a good defensive warrior but would lose against Maul in a long fight.

I think the stupidity of decisions in an affair have nothing to do with one's fighting, but yes, Maul has the stamina.

Of course it has!

That means the person can be distracted by surprising him...

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Of course it has!

That means the person can be distracted by surprising him...

During melee combat everything is happening so quick and the opponents are very much focused on each other, if Windu is that easy to get distracted (in combat) he is a very lousy swordsman, which is unlikely.

[Boba Fett]

Of course it has!

That means the person can be distracted by surprising him...

During melee combat everything is happening so quick and the opponents are very much focused on each other, if Windu is that easy to get distracted (in combat) he is a very lousy swordsman, which is unlikely.

Have to agree with that, he must be a quite good swordsman but being second to Yoda doesn't mean he's the second best swordsman.

I think most of us overestimate Windu.

I rather think he became second in the Jedi Council because his diplomatic skills and his knowledge of the Force.
Of course he's a good warrior but that doesn't count that much in the Council.

Remember the Jedi that were shot down by Jango on the balcony?
He was one of the council members also, still he was surprised and shot to death by the bounty hunter.

The only fancy thing I saw from Windu was in the arena. He was running forward still he managed to parry an incoming blast from the back.
He's fight with Jango I don't count since Jango's stupidity, his damaged backpack, only one blaster etc.

I hope mace will show something cool in Episode 3. (I hope he will face Sidious)

Until then he's just a better-than-average swordsman for me.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Have to agree with that, he must be a quite good swordsman but being second to Yoda doesn't mean he's the second best swordsman.

I think most of us overestimate Windu.

Agreed.

Remember the Jedi that were shot down by Jango on the balcony?
He was one of the council members also, still he was surprised and shot to death by the bounty hunter.

Yes, one doesn't have to be a good FIGHTER to sit in those chairs...(personally I think that was a damn lousy death for a council member.)

OT: IMHO another lousy thing was that 'Form VI skill' and the description of the practitioners all SLAIN in that battle.

The only fancy thing I saw from Windu was in the arena. He was running forward still he managed to parry an incoming blast from the back.
He's fight with Jango I don't count since Jango's stupidity, his damaged backpack, only one blaster etc.

The beheading scene is too cool so I missed these points , Jango was also stepped over by one of those stampeding whatevers, IIRC.

I hope mace will show something cool in Episode 3. (I hope he will face Sidious)

Until then he's just a better-than-average swordsman for me.

[Wild nonsense] Mace goes to the dark side and fights Yoda and dies in the Dagobah tree hole [/Wild nonsense]

[Boba Fett]

[Wild nonsense] Mace goes to the dark side and fights Yoda and dies in the Dagobah tree hole [/Wild nonsense]

LOL

But first he MUST bangs Padme!

*spoiler from Episode 7*

Luke - "Lando are you really my half-brother?"

[Eleas]

Have to agree with that, he must be a quite good swordsman but being second to Yoda doesn't mean he's the second best swordsman.

No, but it means a heckuva good swordsman. Especially since many sources describe him to be Yoda's technical superior in terms of sheer weapons mastery.

I think most of us overestimate Windu.

I think the problem is that most people look and see Samuel Jackson, and figure that since he's not the main character of EPII, his character is a wimp.

I rather think he became second in the Jedi Council because his diplomatic skills and his knowledge of the Force.
Of course he's a good warrior but that doesn't count that much in the Council.

Irrelevant. His fighting skills are frequently referred to to be "second only to Yoda" or even "superior to Yoda".

Remember the Jedi that were shot down by Jango on the balcony?
He was one of the council members also, still he was surprised and shot to death by the bounty hunter.

Yes. He was a Form VI user, which was the stated reason.

The only fancy thing I saw from Windu was in the arena. He was running forward still he managed to parry an incoming blast from the back.

So striking a spot perhaps 1/2 inch wide on a target in full motion isn't impressive? Also, you seem to confuse "fancy" with "effective". Every move he made was pure effectiveness. Every blow he struck had a clear and lethal purpose.

He's fight with Jango I don't count since Jango's stupidity, his damaged backpack, only one blaster etc.

You don't count the fight with Jango, one of the deadliest warriors in the SW galaxy, on the grounds that he couldn't fly and had only a blaster, a flamer, and tons of other goodies? Now why is that?

OT: IMHO another lousy thing was that 'Form VI skill' and the description of the practitioners all SLAIN in that battle.

Why was this Form a "lousy thing"? Please explain this to me.

[Death from the Sea]

I gotta give this to Mace Windu, hell I mean he delivers 10 times outta 10. Remember he may take ya down but he will never let you down.

Maul while he was a tip top fighter, was too confident and THAT is what killed him. Mace is much more reserved and a bigger bad ass.

[Boba Fett]

Have to agree with that, he must be a quite good swordsman but being second to Yoda doesn't mean he's the second best swordsman.

No, but it means a heckuva good swordsman. Especially since many sources describe him to be Yoda's technical superior in terms of sheer weapons mastery.

I rather think he became second in the Jedi Council because his diplomatic skills and his knowledge of the Force.
Of course he's a good warrior but that doesn't count that much in the Council.

Irrelevant. His fighting skills are frequently referred to to be "second only to Yoda" or even "superior to Yoda".

I don't remember...give me some quotes , please.

The only fancy thing I saw from Windu was in the arena. He was running forward still he managed to parry an incoming blast from the back.

So striking a spot perhaps 1/2 inch wide on a target in full motion isn't impressive? Also, you seem to confuse "fancy" with "effective". Every move he made was pure effectiveness. Every blow he struck had a clear and lethal purpose.

I wasn't really impressed that much by him.
I hope he will back up his reputation in Ep. 3.

He's fight with Jango I don't count since Jango's stupidity, his damaged backpack, only one blaster etc.

You don't count the fight with Jango, one of the deadliest warriors in the SW galaxy, on the grounds that he couldn't fly and had only a blaster, a flamer, and tons of other goodies? Now why is that?

Since in this fight Jango behaved like a precipitate whelp.

I think the problem is that most people look and see Samuel Jackson, and figure that since he's not the main character of EPII, his character is a wimp.

No, I don't think so. To tell you the truth, Windu is not my favourite character but I don't think he's a wimp.
Beside that Samuel is a damn good actor too.
But in this movie he lacks a real character. OK, he has some but still he's not so memorable to me. I don't know how to say it but something is missing from his character for me to be the person I "dream" to be second to Yoda.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

OT: IMHO another lousy thing was that 'Form VI skill' and the description of the practitioners all SLAIN in that battle.

Why was this Form a "lousy thing"? Please explain this to me.

IMHO it is lousy for the writers to come up a form like this.

The first thing is that it 'combines forms 1 to 5', yet all of them are not focused. This means that the practicers can't efficiently use the power of the five forms, and more unfortunately, be very handicapped in their shortcomings (I don't even count it as a 'Jack of all trades'). Even if the Jedi are peaceful and the form is for negotiators/diplomats it's hard to believe such an impractical technique surviving the long history of the Jedi.

[Eleas]

I don't remember...give me some quotes , please.

Sure thing.

Other Jedi may be stronger or faster than Mace Windu, but he is the regognized master of the Order's fighting skills.

In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. Only the most skilled of the Jedi could master the Form VII discipline of combat, for its aggressive nature treaded dangerously upon dark side practices.

(this is neither confirmatory nor denigatory)

I wasn't really impressed that much by him.
I hope he will back up his reputation in Ep. 3.

Maybe you weren't, but you failed to meet my points. Does this mean you want to concede?

Since in this fight Jango behaved like a precipitate whelp.

Proof?

No, I don't think so. To tell you the truth, Windu is not my favourite character but I don't think he's a wimp.
Beside that Samuel is a damn good actor too.
But in this movie he lacks a real character. OK, he has some but still he's not so memorable to me. I don't know how to say it but something is missing from his character for me to be the person I "dream" to be second to Yoda.

This, I can understand. And to tell you the truth, I agree with you... less so now, however, than I did when the movie just came out. Mace's style's grown on me, I guess.

Why was this Form a "lousy thing"? Please explain this to me.

IMHO it is lousy for the writers to come up a form like this.

The first thing is that it 'combines forms 1 to 5', yet all of them are not focused. This means that the practicers can't efficiently use the power of the five forms, and more unfortunately, be very handicapped in their shortcomings (I don't even count it as a 'Jack of all trades'). Even if the Jedi are peaceful and the form is for negotiators/diplomats it's hard to believe such an impractical technique surviving the long history of the Jedi.

All right, a valid contention. It can easily be resolved by positing that it combines elements of forms 1 to 5, just like Self-defense 101 combines easy-to-handle techniques from a multitude of martial arts. To see Form VI as a kind of quick-and-easy basic sword discipline would, I think, resolve the problem.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

All right, a valid contention. It can easily be resolved by positing that it combines elements of forms 1 to 5, just like Self-defense 101 combines easy-to-handle techniques from a multitude of martial arts. To see Form VI as a kind of quick-and-easy basic sword discipline would, I think, resolve the problem.

This makes sense

[Boba Fett]

I wasn't really impressed that much by him.
I hope he will back up his reputation in Ep. 3.

Maybe you weren't, but you failed to meet my points. Does this mean you want to concede?

No, not at all!
The problem seems to be is that I've to check some articles on these fighting "Forms" since I've never read about them.
Then I will concede...or not.
Suggestions for where should I look for them?!

Since in this fight Jango behaved like a precipitate whelp.

Proof?

The movie itself. It's quite self-explanatory.
OK, Windu "may" trick Jango's mind to enable to sneak upon them to the balcony.
Why did he flew after Windu? Why did he landed in front of that giant red "bison"? He lost one of his blaster and he should have know that one pistol is not enough to keep a Jedi busy.
Didn't use any other of his gadgetry.
Stupid Jango even jumped for Mace's lost lightsaber.
He let the Jedi too close...

BTW Eleas, thanks for the quotes on Windu!

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

The problem seems to be is that I've to check some articles on these fighting "Forms" since I've never read about them.
Then I will concede...or not.
Suggestions for where should I look for them?!

Here

[Boba Fett]

Thanks dude, I owe you one!

Eleas, I read about the forms and now I think you were right.

Just a question:

What was Maul's style then?

It seems to me very close to Form IV but surely the Sith has their own techniques.
Also Maul was several times said to be very similar -in his fighting style- to Exar Kun who was also a Form IV master.

[D.Turtle]

I'd say that he doesn't use any of the standard forms - after all he is Sith and not Jedi trained (like Dooku was).

He uses the "Sith" style. :p

[Tsyroc]

I'd say that he doesn't use any of the standard forms - after all he is Sith and not Jedi trained (like Dooku was).

He uses the "Sith" style. :p

Aka the Badmotherfucker Style. Which I think Mace could probably handle.

[ANGELUS]

Well, Obi Wan defeated Darth Maul, and then ho got into a fight with Jango Fett, and I mean a real fight, trading blows and all. Obi would have won if it wasn't because they both fell from the platform (well, this is just my guess, there is no evidence that it would have happened that way, but it looked that way). Then Mace killed Jango too easily. So my guess is that if we use fighting Jango as a reference it means that Mace is better than Maul.

I give this one to Mace.

[Eleas]

Maybe you weren't, but you failed to meet my points. Does this mean you want to concede?

No, not at all!

Curses, foiled again.

The problem seems to be is that I've to check some articles on these fighting "Forms" since I've never read about them.
Then I will concede...or not.
Suggestions for where should I look for them?!

Sure! The article was originally published in the Star Wars insider. I don't have the original article on hand, but it's been transcribed. Now to the problem: there are two versions of it. This version (if you disregard the fact that the author has lumped the article together with Brian Young's stuff and some stuff from Kathy Tyers' books) is AFAIK the truest to the original article. However, I actually like the other one I found more. It contains more of the article, but subtly altered in a way that made more sense than the original article (I refuse to believe that Qui-Gon Jinn used the same Form as Yoda).

Since in this fight Jango behaved like a precipitate whelp.

Proof?

The movie itself. It's quite self-explanatory.
OK, Windu "may" trick Jango's mind to enable to sneak upon them to the balcony.
Why did he flew after Windu? Why did he landed in front of that giant red "bison"? He lost one of his blaster and he should have know that one pistol is not enough to keep a Jedi busy.
Didn't use any other of his gadgetry.
Stupid Jango even jumped for Mace's lost lightsaber.
He let the Jedi too close...

I'll have to watch the movie again. In the meantime, I will concede this point.

BTW Eleas, thanks for the quotes on Windu!

Not a problem. He who asks, shall be given.