We need to talk about Andor

[Gandalf]

Kinda curious about the uncle and his 'favours' though. The best he could swing was an entry-level data entry job? And that was the big family favour? The dude was recently fired, sure, but still had the credentials to be a fairly ranking member of that corpo security force.

A good public service job might be worth a lot on Coruscant, depending on pay and any possible extra (written or unwritten) perks. There could be mobility once one is inside the system too.

This show is wall to wall awesome.

[bilateralrope]

Kinda curious about the uncle and his 'favours' though. The best he could swing was an entry-level data entry job? And that was the big family favour? The dude was recently fired, sure, but still had the credentials to be a fairly ranking member of that corpo security force.

Wasn't the job described as "fuel purity" ?

Sure, that sounds like a boring data entry/verification job. But it also sounds like one where getting it wrong has significant consequences.

Then comes the matter of people, possibly including his uncle, wanting him to overlook things that aren't quite at spec. That's probably the lucrative part of the job.

[Lord Revan]

Kinda curious about the uncle and his 'favours' though. The best he could swing was an entry-level data entry job? And that was the big family favour? The dude was recently fired, sure, but still had the credentials to be a fairly ranking member of that corpo security force.

A good public service job might be worth a lot on Coruscant, depending on pay and any possible extra (written or unwritten) perks. There could be mobility once one is inside the system too.

This show is wall to wall awesome.

there's possibly also the matter that "fired by the ISB" might be a huge black mark on your record, regardless of why you got fired.

The Galactic Empire is not even close to democracy after all and thus asking the wrong questions or getting the attention of the wrong people might be really bad for company.

[vakundok]

But I'm only thinking about the layout of the workstations here.

Did you consider the distance to the closest restroom? Seemed like at least a hundred meters away.

[bilateralrope]

But I'm only thinking about the layout of the workstations here.

Did you consider the distance to the closest restroom? Seemed like at least a hundred meters away.

Yes, that could be an issue. Hopefully they don't go with an Amazon quality solution.

[RogueIce]

Kinda curious about the uncle and his 'favours' though. The best he could swing was an entry-level data entry job? And that was the big family favour? The dude was recently fired, sure, but still had the credentials to be a fairly ranking member of that corpo security force.

We don't know the Uncle is all that important himself. He had enough pull to get past the "fired by the ISB" part - which that supervisor seemed aware enough of - which is probably no small thing, either. Giving him a higher position at the start means more eyes on Syril, and thus his record. Getting a low-level job where they can quietly expunge his past record and then working up from there is probably the smarter - and safer - course of action.

Of course as we see Syril went and caught the eye of the ISB again but you can't help stupid. He's just lucky Lieutenant-Supervisor Meero isn't a petty asshole. Not that I see Syril making any better use of what is now his third chance, but well like I said: you can't help stupid. Or in his case, a hard core True Believer.

[KraytKing]

Loved the lead-up to the robbery. They made it feel important and difficult. All too often, movies and TV shows have characters pull off amazing stunts on a whim without consequences, but not here. Not only are we told that they've been planning this for months, we are made to feel as though they've been careful by taking three episodes to get to the fighting part. We learn about each of the Rebel characters, get to know and like them (especially the kid, loved him), and then watch most of them die. Such a refreshing change of writing pace.

Also loved how brutal the Rebels are. They 100% put a gun to the head of a child in the name of accomplishing their goals. Not saying that this is how you win a galactic war, but it definitely needs to be shown since Andor's line in Rogue One: "we've all committed atrocities in the name of the rebellion" (or something like that). Gotta show some atrocities. It also juxtaposes well with Mon Mothma, who clearly doesn't think violence is acceptable, but we know will later grow quite accustomed to it. She plays the role of a moderate, willing to talk about change but unwilling to actually fight for it, but we can see from her interaction with the Chandrilan banker (loved that scene) that she's no moderate by the standards of high society.

Love the visual appeal of the whole show. The style is excellent. I love the props, like the navigation device that is just a piece-of-shit Polaroid. AKs as blaster rifles. Their little camp in the woods. I mean, it all feels like a transcript of someone's WEG Star Wars campaign, and it's fucking working. I'm just sad it's all going to end soon, and it'll probably be the last good Star Wars we get for half a decade.

As far as the ISB involvement, I think we can interpret it as a redefining of what the ISB does, which is fine since it's always been pretty poorly defined. They just watch sectors, nothing more. They aren't the Ubiqtorate, who presumably focuses on the real big fish. They're just bureaucrats that record the goings-on and help centralize the galaxy to Coruscant a little bit more. Catching the attention of an ISB agent might not necessarily be that bad, if you're working on the scale of Rogue One. It's a threat to a band of three rebels or to low-level Imperial bureaucrats, but if you're in the business of killing stormtroopers, the ISB might be a yawn. That's all conjecture, though.

[Gandalf]

Perhaps the ISB is a smaller agency designed to be the go between for the Office of the Emperor, and the rest of the Imperial machine. Col. Yularen seems to be in the top of it all, and Partagaz seems to be one below Yularen.

Given the various sector watchers can now borrow military resources for their operations, I should think that makes them noticeably scarier, as we're seeing on Ferrix.

EDIT: Loved the Saw Gerrera scene, if only because he outlines the amusing idea that while lots of people hate the Empire and want to fight it, they all do it for different reasons. So that's why they're a Rebel Alliance.

[wautd]

EDIT: Loved the Saw Gerrera scene, if only because he outlines the amusing idea that while lots of people hate the Empire and want to fight it, they all do it for different reasons. So that's why they're a Rebel Alliance.

x2

[ray245]

And also why the Galaxy fell apart even after the Rebels won. Because they were all against the Empire for different reasons. Once the enemy was defeated, internal disputes would tear the NR apart.

[Gandalf]

That's certainly true. Evidently the Rebellion didn't have a government ready to go, or at least not one that people would accept? From what we're seeing, a lot of people like the Empire.

[bilateralrope]

And also why the Galaxy fell apart even after the Rebels won. Because they were all against the Empire for different reasons. Once the enemy was defeated, internal disputes would tear the NR apart.

It's a pity Disney will never try to tell that story.

That's certainly true. Evidently the Rebellion didn't have a government ready to go, or at least not one that people would accept? From what we're seeing, a lot of people like the Empire.

Or at least they think they will be safe and comfortable enough under the Empire to suppress any desire to rebel against it. Which is probably what Andor was thinking, right up until he got arrested.

Though with people in positions to be as ruthless and stupid as some of them have been*, provoking the Empire into overeating will not be difficult.

*Eg, whoever thought that "releasing" a prisoner, then sending him back to work was a good idea. Even if the intent was to send him to a different prison factory.

[Gandalf]

Or at least they think they will be safe and comfortable enough under the Empire to suppress any desire to rebel against it. Which is probably what Andor was thinking, right up until he got arrested.

I was thinking along the lines of the people we saw in Obi Wan who had affinity for the Empire. As I recall, someone talked about how the Empire "stood for something."

Though with people in positions to be as ruthless and stupid as some of them have been*, provoking the Empire into overeating will not be difficult.

*Eg, whoever thought that "releasing" a prisoner, then sending him back to work was a good idea. Even if the intent was to send him to a different prison factory.

The cruelty is the point, I think. The prison could also be a place for low ranking Imperial enforcement to prove themselves. Periodically someone can spend a few hundred Imperial prisoners for career advancement, and get a note on their record for "unflinching enforcement" or whatever euphemism they use.

The cruelty funnels people to the Rebellion, justifying an endless military buildup.

[bilateralrope]

The cruelty is the point, I think. The prison could also be a place for low ranking Imperial enforcement to prove themselves. Periodically someone can spend a few hundred Imperial prisoners for career advancement, and get a note on their record for "unflinching enforcement" or whatever euphemism they use.

The cruelty funnels people to the Rebellion, justifying an endless military buildup.

I agree that the cruelty is the point of that prison.

But wiping out a room of prisoners would cause production delays. That's likely to be noticed, especially since it looks like this is a TIE fighter factory.

[Gandalf]

I want so much to see that scene where the Imperial prison head has to explain a shortfall to some other bureaucrat.

[bilateralrope]

I want so much to see that scene where the Imperial prison head has to explain a shortfall to some other bureaucrat.

I wonder if the Empire can even figure out which idiot made the decision to send a prisoner right back into the same prison he was "released" from.

[Lord Revan]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the stuff at produced in the Narkina 5 prison went literally nowhere and was just another form of punish for the prisoners or at least the production isn't significant in any way. Though I suspect cruelty serves to instill the Sith philosophy that everyone is naught but tools to be used for your personal power and then discarded when no longer useful into the imperial hierarchy.

We got remember that as Sith Lord (and who has taken the Sith philosophy to heart) Palpatine would see no value in others apart from what they could give/do to increase Palpatine's personal power, so it likely he gathers likeminded people for the structures like military that help him maintain that power (he'd place himself at the top of this hierarchy so he himself would never be in a position where he could be discarded), so it would not be at all odd that that imperial installations would function in a way to enforce this line of thinking.

[Gandalf]

I wonder if the Empire can even figure out which idiot made the decision to send a prisoner right back into the same prison he was "released" from.

The cruelty being the point, maybe the occasional mass execution is baked in to productivity projections.

The prison might also be expected to have a certain amount of prisoner turnover to produce capacity for the arrests going on in the wider galaxy.

[bilateralrope]

I see two scenarios with sending prisoners back to work immediately after their "release" date:
- This was a one off decision by someone wanting to save the cost of a transport ship.
- This was a systematic change to how these prisons operate. A very recent change. This prisoner was just the first at this prison.

I can't see this being something that's been happening for a while, because every prisoner who gets sent back reveals the release date lie is a to everyone they talk to.

Prisoners not having high enough turnover due to increased sentences could be a problem that the Empire hasn't realized they have yet.

As for cruelty being the point, I'd have expected that the Empire would want word of the conditions inside those prisons to get out to intimidate people. Which doesn't happen without prisoners being released.

[bilateralrope]

I just thought of another possibility that we can't exclude: The prisoner was lying.

[Lord Revan]

It could be a case of some select "first timer" prisoners who are deemed suffiently broken will get released while majority just gets fed into the system.

And way I understood the issue with prisoner wasn't so much that he was put back into the system but rather he was put back into the same facility so other prisoners would recognize him as someone who has been there before. So if a prisoner from Belsavis gets sent to Narkina 5 or the other way around it's not as much of an issue as the other inmates won't recognize the person saying the "release date is a lie" and thus are less inclined to believe them.

The Empire after all does seem to try to foster distrust among the inmates.

Obviously you wouldn't want to release an inmate who has been thru the "false release and reinterment" process, unless they're broken to point you're able to dictate what they'll say to the public with a reasonable degree of accuracy or they're a babbling lunatic who no-one would take seriously anyway.

[bilateralrope]

It could be a case of some select "first timer" prisoners who are deemed suffiently broken will get released while majority just gets fed into the system.

Note that Kino is shift supervisor. The most senior of prisoners in that room. The one who was enforcing the prison rules. All it took to convince him into joining the escape plan was confirming that a single prisoner hadn't been released as promised.

If there were other prisoners like this, news of them would have spread just like the one we know about. But everything points to that guy being the first at that prison.

And way I understood the issue with prisoner wasn't so much that he was put back into the system but rather he was put back into the same facility so other prisoners would recognize him as someone who has been there before.

Look at how the prison is setup. The only faces any prisoner gets a close look at are the others working in their room. The prisoners of adjacent rooms are some distance away, too far for their faces to be seen clearly.

This prisoner went from level 4 to level 2. There was probably nobody in his level 2 workspace who would have seen his face before. So all he needs is to convince any of the inmates in his room is knowledge of how this prison operates. Maybe he was in this prison before and was only lying about how long he was out. Maybe he got information while on the outside before being sent there, which would involve some luck and/or compromising whoever chose which prison to send him to.

Or maybe the prisoner was telling the truth.

Obviously you wouldn't want to release an inmate who has been thru the "false release and reinterment" process, unless they're broken to point you're able to dictate what they'll say to the public with a reasonable degree of accuracy or they're a babbling lunatic who no-one would take seriously anyway.

If the Empire cares about sending any message about the prisons, I'd expect it to be that they are brutal places that you do not want to be sent to. The false releases would feed that message.

[Lord Revan]

Obviously you wouldn't want to release an inmate who has been thru the "false release and reinterment" process, unless they're broken to point you're able to dictate what they'll say to the public with a reasonable degree of accuracy or they're a babbling lunatic who no-one would take seriously anyway.

If the Empire cares about sending any message about the prisons, I'd expect it to be that they are brutal places that you do not want to be sent to. The false releases would feed that message.

It depends, you want people to think "I don't want to end up there, so I'll obey the empire" but what you don't want them to think is "there's no hope to just exist, my only recourse is to resist" as desperate people are highly dangerous as there's nothing they wouldn't do in theory at least.

[bilateralrope]

It depends, you want people to think "I don't want to end up there, so I'll obey the empire" but what you don't want them to think is "there's no hope to just exist, my only recourse is to resist" as desperate people are highly dangerous as there's nothing they wouldn't do in theory at least.

I don't think the Empire understands that thought process. They rely on brutality. If people resist, the only response the Empire can see is more brutality. All the way up to the Death Star. Oh sure, some imperials are smarter than that, but the system is not.

Also, the false releases only lead to people thinking there is no hope after they get sent to a prison. If they think that they won't get sent there if they follow the rules, like Andor did, they still have hope of avoiding the prisons. The thing that destroys that hope is people learning that there isn't even a show trial between being accused and being sentenced, not the conditions of the prison they get sent to.

[bilateralrope]

Looks like the ISB is about to find out where Andor has been these past few months. They won't be happy.