Is my being a Piett fan ludicrous?

[irishmick79]

I think there is a point to be made here that officers like Piett and Paelleon were few and far between in the upper echelons of Imperial High Command, which makes their achievements that much more noticable. The imperial officer corps prides itself on it's loyalty and dedication, and I think part of that indoctrination included instilling a belief that the ultimate triumph of the Imperial government was inevitable. As you might suspect, a lot of officers who embrace that attitude through their training would inevitably turn out to be the arrogant snobs you see in the EU. It is only the true professionals who are able to rise above that mentality, and prove their merit beyond doubt.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Well if you ask me, part of the reason that we only see arrogant snobs in the EU is because they knew how to survive without Emeperor (guys like Zsinj were counting on it).

Think about it, true professionals like Piett and Veers knew how to do battle with fleets and armies, invent strategies, and take orders. Good for when your Empire is still kicking, but not when everyone splits into warlord factions, since these guys have almost no idea how the politics of the Imperial Navy work.

On the other hand, the snobbish guys have experience in manipulating people, and gathering followers. NOT neccesarily in doing combat. In fact, we see just how hard guys like Zsinj fall, even when they have superior ships/numbers. So in the post-Endor Empire, we can see how easy it was for the poilitical experts to gather armies under their banner, and for those who only know buisness to be left out.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I for one never liked Piett. My take on him was he was a little weasel that ratted out on Ozzel the first oppurtunity he got. Watch the scenbe where he first appears and how he staged the whole discovery at Hoth thing precisely to attract Vader's attention.

He is not a militray genuis and more like an ambitious cronie.

Corporate warfare--hello?

That's how you get ahead in a dog-eat-dog environment like the Empire. I'd set up a stupid little rich baffoon like that prick Ozzel to ascend to power myself.

Ozzel was an incompetant moron who got promoted due to political connections--Official data confirms this.

Piett is a professional who had to deal with richer, more affluent idiots like Ozzel getting in the way.

He's cool, collected, and clever. And the NEGTC confirms his sense of tactics was nearly on-par with the Grand Admirals.

This is why I dislike your characterization of poor Piett in Starcrossed. But oh well. Your story.

[Stravo]

Hey, I have not made Piett a simpering boob. I just don't like him, I find him to be a weasel, but in the latest chapters he and Thrawn are starting to come together like a well oiled machine. If I can be fair to Wesley I can be fair to Piett.

[NecronLord]

No. Piett is a decent officer.

Now to the hangin' tree with Stavro. How dare you accuse Piett of being a weasel...

I could say something about Kirk now...

[Illuminatus Primus]

Hey, I have not made Piett a simpering boob. I just don't like him, I find him to be a weasel, but in the latest chapters he and Thrawn are starting to come together like a well oiled machine. If I can be fair to Wesley I can be fair to Piett.

I will trust your judgement, Master.

[Darth Wong]

I for one never liked Piett. My take on him was he was a little weasel that ratted out on Ozzel the first oppurtunity he got. Watch the scenbe where he first appears and how he staged the whole discovery at Hoth thing precisely to attract Vader's attention.

Did Piett stage his discovery of the hidden Rebel base? Maybe; we don't know whether he could have known Vader was about to show up. Was Ozzel an arrogant fool who dismissed evidence without due cause during what was supposed to be an exhaustive search? Absolutely. Did he DESERVE to be shown up and stripped of his position? Absolutely.

Piett's actions were correct. His identification of the transmission as a possible indication of a Rebel base was correct. His action in going over Ozzel's head was correct; without that act, Ozzel would have overruled him and they would not have found the Rebels. There was nothing whatsoever wrong with him stabbing Ozzel in the back; from what we have seen, Ozzel deserved it. In fact, some have made a convincing argument that Ozzel might even have been a traitor.

He is not a militray genuis and more like an ambitious cronie.

Ambitious, sure. But he was also competent and professional.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

The NEGTC says Piett staged the find for the presence of Vader because he knew Ozzel would dismiss it. Therefor, Piett is just as competent for not only finding the Rebel base, but for knowing his superiors well enough to manipulate the scene to his advantage.

[Publius]

Although it is no doubt accidental, the case of Kendal Ozzel and Firmus Piett neatly parallels that of Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton, respectively.

Thomas Jefferson was a product and beneficiary of the Virginia oligarchy, accustomed to a world in which all things came to men who had been born into power. He was the product of clannish, closed society, into which it was impossible to enter except by birth or by marriage, and wherein political and familial connexions were far more valuable than industry or ability. He was born wealthy, and would have remained wealthy if not for his ineptitude and mismanagement of his ample resources. His societal background, that of Virginia, was oligarchical and static, almost caste-bound.

Alexander Hamilton, on the other hand, was the bastard son of Rachel Levine née Faucett and James Hamilton. He grew up as a “disadvantaged youth” on St Croix, with no formal schooling, but by the age of fourteen had already found for himself gainful employment. He advanced himself through his own industry, found for himself a sponsor willing to send him to Princeton College; by his own efforts he transferred to King’s College, where, on the outbreak of the Revolutionary War, he raised and organised a volunteer drill company at his own initiative. He secured for himself appointment to General Washington’s staff as aide de camp, and by his own industry acquired a field command just in time to participate in the Yorktown Campaign.

The difference between the two is striking: Jefferson was the product of a lackadaisical aristocracy, with all the class arrogance of the English and French nobilities, which despised the “people of the meaner sort,” and especially such upstart entrepreneurs as merchants and businessmen, bourgeois people who advanced themselves on their merits and successes, with neither name nor landed interests. Hamilton was the product of a competitive, upward mobility, and detested the static, closed oligarchy that denied advancement upon skill and ability. Jefferson was born and accustomed to power and influence; Hamilton had been required to work for both.

Kendal Ozzel is a scion of an old patrician family, whose name is chief amongst his qualifications. His family has been long wealthy and respected, and his education and advancement were chiefly due to his name and his political connexions. He was a professor of languages at the Military Academy on Carida, and yet somehow he acquired for himself the rank of fleet admiral and command of a prestigious battle force of Star Destroyers.

Firmus Piett, on the other hand, was born on Axxila, and had no connexions with the nomenklatura of the Core Worlds. He secured promotion for himself strictly through his skill and his ability, and owed his rank of captain to no favours or patronage from friends of the family. That his name was “Piett” was not among his qualifications for advancement.

Did Captain Piett manipulate Admiral Ozzel when he made his report on the settlement on Hoth VI? Indubitably. Just the same, Secretary Hamilton manipulated Secretary Jefferson when he wrote his memorandum to President Washington defending the Constitutionality of the incorporation of the Bank of the United States. In both cases, a meritocrat bested an aristocrat, and in both cases the former was in the right.

Indeed, the difference between them is never more visible than in the very scene wherein Ozzel is executed and Piett promoted: Piett, ever conscientious and industrious, turns immediately to face the irate Sith Lord. Ozzel, pompous and arrogant, deigns only to turn to the Sith Lord at a leisurely pace. The true tragedy of the matter is that Maximilian Veers, himself a capable and meritorious officer, perhaps risked his career and his life to defend Ozzel to Darth Vader, and Ozzel was not deserving of the effort. That, perhaps, is a good example of Veers’s own character, that he even attempted to protect Ozzel from himself.

Even more unfortunate, Ozzel’s influence tainted Lorth Needa with the stain of privilege. Needa, who was nothing if not a conscientious and honourable man, voluntarily took full responsibility for the failure of the Avenger to apprehend Solo and his passengers. It was this man’s misfortune that he was a trusted adviser to Ozzel, and as a result disliked and distrusted by Vader and his Emperor. So incapable an officer was Ozzel, that even his execution proved to be a disservice to the fleet, as it only discredited Needa and facilitated his regrettable execution.

[Baron Scarpia]

I have to agree that Piett did the right thing with regards to Ozzel. He couldn't very well confront Ozzel with the Admiral's own stupidity, and Ozzel's actions were jeapordizing the mission. Ozzel was making trouble for everybody through his incompetence. What else could Piett do?

That his actions ultimately resulted in his promotion seems to have taken him by surprise, at least judging by the look on his face and reaction to his promotion. I think, if anything, he was worried he would meet the same fate as Ozzel eventually, knowing Vader's tendencies towards executing officers.

I certainly don't see anything indicating he is a weasel. Weasels tend to be disliked by their men, and there isn't any evidence of this in the film. In ESB, he is down in the pit with the crew, and he makes his bounty hunter comment to the young crewman as if he were sharing his opinion with a comrade, not a lowly subordinate.

[Slartibartfast]

I think most people agree that amongst all the other high-ranked people (admirals and captains) he's the cool one. He's a likeable character. Apparently Vader thinks that too, since he didn't strangle him and stuff.

Also I really noticed fear when he was promoted. I mean, sure, he was probably happy he was, but watching his superior being killed in front of him and somebody yelling "NEXT!" isn't probably very nice

[Peregrin Toker]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a Piett fan. Actually, many characters have almost cult status, although they don't do much in the movies.

But what more do you need? All Boba Fett did was walk slow and jump into a Sarlaac pit, and still to this day people worship him like the second coming of Christ.

[Boba Fett]

Vader seems to be "nicer" to Piett than to anyone else. It's as if he almost likes the man. In RoTJ, his tone towards the Admiral is really mellow and seems to be one of trust.

I second that!

In RotJ Piett seems to miss the "general fear" of Vader.

[neoolong]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a Piett fan. Actually, many characters have almost cult status, although they don't do much in the movies.

But what more do you need? All Boba Fett did was walk slow and jump into a Sarlaac pit, and still to this day people worship him like the second coming of Christ.

Well Boba did stand up to Vader.

[Ted C]

Well Boba did stand up to Vader.

Only two SW villains have had the balls to talk back to Vader and get away with it: Tarkin and Boba Fett. Both are among the coolest characters in the series.

Note: The Emperor doesn't talk back to Vader; he talks down to Vader, and Vader doesn't talk back to him.

[Baron Scarpia]

Tarkin, for some reason, had authority over Vader at the time...has there been any explanation for this?

And Motti's talking back to him certainly took balls...

[Publius]

Actually, Ted, Commander Daine Jir was quite bold in A New Hope, chiding Lord Vader that "Holding her is dangerous!" and "She'll die before she'll tell you anything!" Oddly enough, Jir remains the only person to have been so quick to openly criticise Lord Vader and to have gotten away with it -- a fact which is made even more odd by the fact that although Decipher calls him a commander, Dr Saxton's analysis of his rank plaque suggests that he is in fact a sub-lieutenant, an extremely junior rank.

[Peregrin Toker]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a Piett fan. Actually, many characters have almost cult status, although they don't do much in the movies.

But what more do you need? All Boba Fett did was walk slow and jump into a Sarlaac pit, and still to this day people worship him like the second coming of Christ.

Well Boba did stand up to Vader.

But he wasn't really in many "action sequences" in the original trilogy. (except for that one where he was eaten by a Sarlacc)

However, I think he has that status partly because we never see his face, not just because he talks back to Vader and gets away with it!

Tarkin, for some reason, had authority over Vader at the time...has there been any explanation for this?

Well, Grand Moff status amounts to more than you think!

[Ted C]

Actually, Ted, Commander Daine Jir was quite bold in A New Hope, chiding Lord Vader that "Holding her is dangerous!" and "She'll die before she'll tell you anything!" Oddly enough, Jir remains the only person to have been so quick to openly criticise Lord Vader and to have gotten away with it -- a fact which is made even more odd by the fact that although Decipher calls him a commander, Dr Saxton's analysis of his rank plaque suggests that he is in fact a sub-lieutenant, an extremely junior rank.

You're quite right; I'd forgotten about him.

Vader seems to like guys who show him respect but aren't afraid to tell him when they think he's doing something foolish. People who patronize him (like Ozzel) or fail him (like Needa) are the ones who end up with crushed windpipes.

People like Jir and Veers know how to phrase their arguments in an acceptable manner and make sure to deliver on their responsibilities. They also know back off before making Vader angry at them.

Jir, for instance, mentions the political risks of holding Leia prisoner, but stops well short of suggesting that it's foolish. Veers attempt to excuse Ozzel's strategy for dropping the fleet from hyperspace close to the Hoth system, but quickly backs off when he realizes that Vader has already decided Ozzel's fate.

[Baron Scarpia]

I thought a Grand Moff was simply a Moff who was given charge of a particularly troublesome sector (or amalgam of troubled areas that spanned sectors).

Even so, Vader was fucking Lord of the Sith! Since we see him as the Emperor's right hand, it seems odd that he would be made answerable to anyone but Palpatine.

[Kuja]

I thought a Grand Moff was simply a Moff who was given charge of a particularly troublesome sector (or amalgam of troubled areas that spanned sectors).

I was under the impression that the Grand Moffs were the equivalent of the Grand Admirals, but in the political area, rather than military.

Tarkin, the first GM, was given control of "Oversecter Outer" which meant that it was his task to clean up the majority of the Rebel activity. When other GMs were appointed (Argon, Kintaro) they were probably given other "oversectors" to keep watch on.

[Peregrin Toker]

I thought a Grand Moff was simply a Moff who was given charge of a particularly troublesome sector (or amalgam of troubled areas that spanned sectors).

According to the SWTC:

The supreme commander of a Sector Group is a Moff, the military official who governs the sector politically as well as martially. Higher commands are given to Grand Moffs, who possess the equivalent of several sector groups for the purpose of pacifying temporary territories called Priority Sectors.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

My guess is Tarkin was allowed to order Vader around because Palpatine didn't want all his top military aides ending up in a mourge. Sure, some talk back, but they still are the best of the best.

But I guess after the DS was destroyed Palpy thought more discipline was neccesary, and gave Vader free-reign to go on choking sprees whenever he wanted.

[Lord Pounder]

IIRC it is stated in the Zhan books that the boldest of the Imperial Navy where aboard the 1st Death Star when it blew. The remainder of the upper echelons of the Navy where at Endor and we all know what happened there.

[neoolong]

IIRC it is stated in the Zhan books that the boldest of the Imperial Navy where aboard the 1st Death Star when it blew. The remainder of the upper echelons of the Navy where at Endor and we all know what happened there.

That wouldn't have happened if somebody hadn't let that Imperial shuttle go through and land.