Hyperspace Jump Power Requirements

[Ender]

I was the one who did the scaling on the ISD reactor. Back before I realized how much figuring went into the numbers to make them fit with EU stuff I placed it at 10^24 watts. Doing direct scaling you get on the order of 10^25 watts.

[Stark]

Given that it is an inherent side-affect of every single hyperjump, I'd say the massive c-range to and for accelerations are totally part of the hyperdrive.

And something propelled that acceleration and decceleration. And from the near light speed achieved by X-wings and other fighter craft in NJO and the "barely sublight" quote of Wedge X-wing in ROTJ, I dare say that this ability can be used independently to accelerate ships without entering hyperspace.

Any propulsion system can push an object to 'barely sublight' speeds. This doesn't require any extra terms like new funky drives. They've GOT ion drives and hyperspace motivators.
And does anyone know if a ship in hyperspace is visible/interactable to the rest of the galaxy? And why doesn't anyone think ships can manuveur in hyperspace? If ships have to plot courses, manuveur is possible, so if you're willing to take the risk (or recalculate on the fly) surely its possible.

[PainRack]

Given that it is an inherent side-affect of every single hyperjump, I'd say the massive c-range to and for accelerations are totally part of the hyperdrive.

And something propelled that acceleration and decceleration. And from the near light speed achieved by X-wings and other fighter craft in NJO and the "barely sublight" quote of Wedge X-wing in ROTJ, I dare say that this ability can be used independently to accelerate ships without entering hyperspace.

Any propulsion system can push an object to 'barely sublight' speeds. This doesn't require any extra terms like new funky drives. They've GOT ion drives and hyperspace motivators.
And does anyone know if a ship in hyperspace is visible/interactable to the rest of the galaxy? And why doesn't anyone think ships can manuveur in hyperspace? If ships have to plot courses, manuveur is possible, so if you're willing to take the risk (or recalculate on the fly) surely its possible.

Any propulsion system that can maintain gigantic fuel reserves that can be stored without exotic technologies.

[vakundok]

Off topic:

And does anyone know if a ship in hyperspace is visible/interactable to the rest of the galaxy?

Visible: I think yes. It depends on whether the monitor on Endor showed the rebell fleet or the imperial. Leia's behaviour and what she said in the novelisation suggest it showed the rebell fleet which was in hyperspace at that time.
Interactable: If I remember well, some WEG based sources suggest the existence of an imperial ship, the Abolisher- cruiser which can destroy ships in hyperspace from realspace, using its 'Hyperspace Pulsemass Generators'. (This weapon is said to be described on page 67 of the Imperial Sourcebook, but it is not in the second edition, so maybe the whole thing is only fan fiction.)

And why doesn't anyone think ships can manuveur in hyperspace? If ships have to plot courses, manuveur is possible, so if you're willing to take the risk (or recalculate on the fly) surely its possible.

Well, for example the novelisation of AotC states (when Kenobi and Skywalker return to Coruscant) that a hyperspace route cannot be altered after the ship enters hyperspace.

[Enola Straight]

Maybe it takes one Planck energy unit to push each Planck Mass unit past lightspeed...just how heavy is an ISD?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Any propulsion system that can maintain gigantic fuel reserves that can be stored without exotic technologies.

Care to justify what is and is not possible?

[Connor MacLeod]

And does anyone know if a ship in hyperspace is visible/interactable to the rest of the galaxy?

No, since the object is traveling faster than light (hint: What is vision and sight.)

You might see the abrupt sublight acceleration and deceleration to and from hyperspace, though.

And why doesn't anyone think ships can manuveur in hyperspace?

If ships have to plot courses, manuveur is possible, so if you're willing to take the risk (or recalculate on the fly) surely its possible.

Its not impossible, just exceedingly difficult given the precision required for navigational coordinates and the everpresent danger of realspace collisions. Thus, it is rarely done unless the situation is dire or if you manage to get extremely precise coordinates.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Its not impossible, just exceedingly difficult given the precision required for navigational coordinates and the everpresent danger of realspace collisions. Thus, it is rarely done unless the situation is dire or if you manage to get extremely precise coordinates.

Exactly. A rare example would be tracing the precise origin of Holonet transmissions from the Alleagance at Mon Calamari.

[Connor MacLeod]

Its not impossible, just exceedingly difficult given the precision required for navigational coordinates and the everpresent danger of realspace collisions. Thus, it is rarely done unless the situation is dire or if you manage to get extremely precise coordinates.

Exactly. A rare example would be tracing the precise origin of Holonet transmissions from the Alleagance at Mon Calamari.

Better examples can be found in Tales of the bounty Hunters (Where the Bounty Hunter Bossk's ship the Hound's Tooth was capable of changing course in hyperspace.) and Jedi Council: Acts of War (where one of the republic Cruisers jumped around a planet through hyperspace to come out the other side to escape enemies.)

There is also a WEG source labeled (IIRC - I dont have my copy with me now) "Gallandinium's Fanastic Technology" that offered for sale a device that could allow an "alternate" hyperdrive destination to be kept simultaneously with a separate one (basically you could "change course" at a later point to the second set of coordinates.), suggesting that the ability may require special hardware (This is somewhat supported by a later TBH short story involving 4-LOM and Zuckuss, who did not have the ability to change course in hyperspace, but could emerge from and reenter hyperspace in a matter of seconds.)

It should be noted the "Acts of War" example also indicates that it is quite possible to execute Hyperspace jumps over very short distances (hundreds of thousands of kilometers or less) - an ability originally seen only once in "the Hutt Gambit". This too was suggested to be an ability that required extreme precision (which makes sense given the incredible speeds involved in a hyperspace jump.), although it is quite rare. (For example, the Prakith Navy ships in the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy could not execute hyperspace jumps over distances smaller than 20 million kilometers.) Additionally, it has been known that some starships (Dark Empire/DE 2, and Hutt Gambit) can execute hyperspace jumps while still within the gravity well - or even the atmosphere - of a planet - but again this is an exceedingly dangerous and therefore uncommon tactic.

Except where noted, the exact reasons for the seeming contradiction in abilities is confusing (for example, the AOTC novelization indicated that course changes while in hyperspace were impossible.), suggesting that it is not a "standarD" ability built into most craft for one reason or another (either standard limitations or safeties on hyperdrive systems do not permit it, or it requires special/expensive equipment that only smugglers or bounty hunters, or a military warship, would possess. We know this is true at least for course changing, and is probably true for the others.) And as already mentioned, limitations also depend GREATLY on the precision of navigational data and coordinates (which from all accounts appears to be a TREMEONDOUSLY complex process that can be influenced by numerous factors, many of them quite random or hard to predict.

[Marc Xavier]

Lemme make sure I got this. Turning in hyperspace is possible for some ships but not for others, according to the ICS thing? In other words, it's an optional feature? Or did I miss something?

[Ender]

Lemme make sure I got this. Turning in hyperspace is possible for some ships but not for others, according to the ICS thing? In other words, it's an optional feature? Or did I miss something?

Basic summary:

Hyperdrives are more or less straight line. They can likely be set for say a parabolic curve, but they6 can't zig zag their merry way through the stars. They go to a point, drop to realspace, reorientate themselves, and jump again. This is why the massive hyperlanes are so important, they are clear routes where you can go one end to the other with only a few if any (depending on where you are going) stop offs.

That said, the hyperdrive course can be muddled a bit. You can drop out of space early, alter your end point by a few degrees if you are almost there, and do some things enroute to make you a little harder to track ( I have a theory on that, but I am trying to stay close to the established facts with no theory here). But basically once a jump is locked in, that is where you are going.

Now there exists a special black market mopdification for hyperdrivce computers that lets you alter to another course in mid flight. Given the easily apparent value that would have for military applications, the fact that it is not done suggests that it is slapdash and exceedingly dangerous. However, the possibility is still there.

[Marc Xavier]

Fascinating

[Connor MacLeod]

Lemme make sure I got this. Turning in hyperspace is possible for some ships but not for others, according to the ICS thing? In other words, it's an optional feature? Or did I miss something?

Basic summary:

Hyperdrives are more or less straight line. They can likely be set for say a parabolic curve, but they6 can't zig zag their merry way through the stars. They go to a point, drop to realspace, reorientate themselves, and jump again. This is why the massive hyperlanes are so important, they are clear routes where you can go one end to the other with only a few if any (depending on where you are going) stop offs.

That said, the hyperdrive course can be muddled a bit. You can drop out of space early, alter your end point by a few degrees if you are almost there, and do some things enroute to make you a little harder to track ( I have a theory on that, but I am trying to stay close to the established facts with no theory here). But basically once a jump is locked in, that is where you are going.

Now there exists a special black market mopdification for hyperdrivce computers that lets you alter to another course in mid flight. Given the easily apparent value that would have for military applications, the fact that it is not done suggests that it is slapdash and exceedingly dangerous. However, the possibility is still there.

Its not neccesarily "dangerous black market" = but it is an rare/restricted technology (The Empire does in fact restrict a number of technologies from being "publicly accessed" or under specific restrictions.) - the fact that Military hyperdrives possess the ability appears to suggest that it is a restricted technology. Its not unusual for bounty hunters to acquire military technology through ulterior means, though. There could also be cost or design restraints in addition.

[Ender]

Its not neccesarily "dangerous black market" = but it is an rare/restricted technology (The Empire does in fact restrict a number of technologies from being "publicly accessed" or under specific restrictions.) - the fact that Military hyperdrives possess the ability appears to suggest that it is a restricted technology. Its not unusual for bounty hunters to acquire military technology through ulterior means, though. There could also be cost or design restraints in addition.

Um, the military lacks the ability. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I cannot think of a single time that they have changed destinations enroute. altered the endpoint slightly, yes, but not change destinations

[Connor MacLeod]

Its not neccesarily "dangerous black market" = but it is an rare/restricted technology (The Empire does in fact restrict a number of technologies from being "publicly accessed" or under specific restrictions.) - the fact that Military hyperdrives possess the ability appears to suggest that it is a restricted technology. Its not unusual for bounty hunters to acquire military technology through ulterior means, though. There could also be cost or design restraints in addition.

Um, the military lacks the ability. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I cannot think of a single time that they have changed destinations enroute. altered the endpoint slightly, yes, but not change destinations

Dark Empire. The ISD Emancipator changed course (as did the other ships in its fleet) while in Hyperspace in order to come out at point-blank range from the Alleigance.

On top of that, Old Republic diplomatic cruisers could also change course in hyperspace (they could go around a planet through hyperspace, enter on one side and come out on the other. - Jedi Council: Acts of War.)

[Ender]

Its not neccesarily "dangerous black market" = but it is an rare/restricted technology (The Empire does in fact restrict a number of technologies from being "publicly accessed" or under specific restrictions.) - the fact that Military hyperdrives possess the ability appears to suggest that it is a restricted technology. Its not unusual for bounty hunters to acquire military technology through ulterior means, though. There could also be cost or design restraints in addition.

Um, the military lacks the ability. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I cannot think of a single time that they have changed destinations enroute. altered the endpoint slightly, yes, but not change destinations

Dark Empire. The ISD Emancipator changed course (as did the other ships in its fleet) while in Hyperspace in order to come out at point-blank range from the Alleigance.

They altered their endpoint slighty at the very end of the journey, like I said. Substantially different from a totally different destination mid way through the trip.

On top of that, Old Republic diplomatic cruisers could also change course in hyperspace (they could go around a planet through hyperspace, enter on one side and come out on the other. - Jedi Council: Acts of War.)

That was the Jedi's piloting skill, not a preprogrammed move in the navicomputer, they were in realspace, did an imediate jump, and the pilot drove around the planet. Again, this is totally different from changing your destination when you are halfway there.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I course correction like that of the Emancipator, if started at the beginning of a jump, could put the trajectory off by light-years. The same ability could switch destinations if they were nearby.

[Ender]

I course correction like that of the Emancipator, if started at the beginning of a jump, could put the trajectory off by light-years.

Thus it would be no better then a blind jump. There is no evidence that a proper military craft can radically alter its destination in mid flight. We have seen ships make small changes right at the end, either dropping out early (Corellian trilogy), or minute adjustments (seriously, that would have been a light minute change at most) right at the end in DE.

There is zero evidence that a military craft can get a message enroute saying "hey, there was a suprise attack, turn around and come here" and they do it without reverting to realspace and turning.

[Connor MacLeod]

They altered their endpoint slighty at the very end of the journey, like I said. Substantially different from a totally different destination mid way through the trip.

It still demonstrates the ability to change course in hyperspace, regardless of where the exact coordinates are derived from. Precision is the requirement, much as precision is required for short-range hyperspace jumps or jumps when in a gravity well.

That was the Jedi's piloting skill, not a preprogrammed move in the navicomputer, they were in realspace, did an imediate jump, and the pilot drove around the planet. Again, this is totally different from changing your destination when you are halfway there.

Sassee specifically transfers coordinates to Qui-Gon, and orders him to "lock them into the navigational computer" prior to a hyperspace jump. Sassee's Force ability only provided the path (much akin to the ability Luke Skywalker employed in "courtship of Princess Leia" to give the Hapan Battle Dragon Song of War a faster transit time to Dathomir.)

Course changes, as I said, are merely a matter of precision, that is all. Navicomputer quality can no doubt affect this ability (some navicomputers may not be able to adjust courses - look at Tales of the bounty hunters as well as the AOTC novelization for proof of this, while others apparently can.) But you don't always have to "calculate" a new course (preprogrammed courses can and usually are stored in both smaller ships and larger ships, which could logically be used for "course changes." And of course coordinates can be provided as well. I might add that the "Hyperspace bypass" technology mentioned in Gallandinium's technology is simply a second set of nav coordinates in and of itself.

(on top of that, making course changes over a shorter distance is more difficult than it is over longer ones, since longer distances involve more time for making calculations and for adjusting - basically a greater "reaction time.")

[Ender]

Look, I'm gonna have to sign off for the night here real quick, so I'm just going to say this:

Provide a single hard example of a military ship changing destinations enroute. I'm not talking alter just a tiny bit at DE, I mean midway there they go off in a totally different direction. A solid example, not they did this, so I think they should be able to do that. One solid example. And I'll conceed no problem.

[Connor MacLeod]

Look, I'm gonna have to sign off for the night here real quick, so I'm just going to say this:

Provide a single hard example of a military ship changing destinations enroute. I'm not talking alter just a tiny bit at DE, I mean midway there they go off in a totally different direction. A solid example, not they did this, so I think they should be able to do that. One solid example. And I'll conceed no problem.

Despite how ludicrous this sounds, fine. Jedi Council ACts of War. As I correctly pointed out, Sassee ordered Qui-Gon to lock the coordinates he transferred for the jump INTO THE NAVICOMPUTER. Hence the computer made the frigging jump.

[Ender]

Now just to confirm my recollection of that incident: they made that jump to get away from attacking Yinchorri forces, correct?

[Connor MacLeod]

Now just to confirm my recollection of that incident: they made that jump to get away from attacking Yinchorri forces, correct?

Yes, and?

BTW, regarding Dark Empire, I saw nothing that indicated "minor" course corrections. I noted that Lando gave an order to "recalculate" their emergence point from hyperspace to be two degrees from the point of transmission (IIRC the bubble description correctly.) But nothing I saw gave any hint of what their original "emergence" location would have been.

[Ender]

Now just to confirm my recollection of that incident: they made that jump to get away from attacking Yinchorri forces, correct?

Yes, and?

So it doesn't prove your point at all. I asked for proof that major course corrections could be made while enroute. They did it from realspace.

BTW, regarding Dark Empire, I saw nothing that indicated "minor" course corrections. I noted that Lando gave an order to "recalculate" their emergence point from hyperspace to be two degrees from the point of transmission (IIRC the bubble description correctly.) But nothing I saw gave any hint of what their original "emergence" location would have been.

So despite the fact that Lando and Wedge were dispatched to Mon Cal, they were not going to Mon Cal and thus this was a major course correction?

[Connor MacLeod]

So it doesn't prove your point at all. I asked for proof that major course corrections could be made while enroute. They did it from realspace.

How so? You're not only remarkably vague about what sort of definition you are embracing, but you are also ignoring the fact that the determining factor in course changes is the accuracy of the calculated course. The degree of change is in fact dependent upon the calculations made (you do understand that changing course in hyperspace involves the recalculation of

So despite the fact that Lando and Wedge were dispatched to Mon Cal, they were not going to Mon Cal and thus this was a major course correction?

Relevant to course changes how exactly? THey had new coordinates, so they could alter their destination. How would this be any different if the coordinates they had could accurately allow them to go to a different system or even the planet? If the coordinates they have are accurate enough (which is the prime requirement and one reason why its not easy to do this often.), there is no reason why they shouldn't.

By your logic, we shouldn't assume that SW ships can target other mobile warships at multiple light-second ranges because we've never seen it happen, even if the ability can be inferred from other sources.