The Nature of the Force

[Spartan]

Durran Korr wrote:

I think it is incorrect that the Force grip is labeled at a dark side power so often. When Luke uses it on the Gamorreans, they do not appear to die, but rather they pass out. He did not use this power in anger or with the intent to do harm, but to temporarily neutralize the piggies.

Darth Vader is another matter; using the Force choke to strangle the life out of someone you are angry with is an entirely different matter.

You my friend need to be introduced to the the SW RPG's where force choking is specifically noted to be a dark side act. And you miss the point, there is not difference between a force push that kills and a force choke that kills. It the same power, HDS is correct the Dark/Light side in a euphamism.

Sam Or I wrote:

Ah.....but Maul already tried to kill Qui-Gon once Tatooine. They already new his strength. I do not know who strikes first in that battle, but I am willing to bet it was Maul. They already knew he was a bad guy, and they already discussed the Sith with the council, so if someone is out there to destroy you and has attempted it before, it does not break an honor to battle him again, to resolve the unresolved conflict.

Ah...but that was one on one wasn't it. The Jedi Council never said to kill Maul, they undoubtedly would have rather taken him alive for questioning. Which bring up the question, why send only one full Jedi? Wouldn't a squad such as the used against the Maldorians been more prudent? And two on one though effective, is still cowardly.

une wrote:

In a nutshell, I've always thought that it meant for Anakin to wipe out the too wrong ways of using the Force, Jedi and Siths philosophies, so that a new one, Luke's teachings, could grow and prosper. Do you agree with this? Take into account that I disregard the EU when it comes to the Force.

My belief is that the Anakin was destined to detroy the Bi-polar nature of Jedi and Sith teaching. Niether was correct and interfered with the force being understood for what it truly is. Monopolizing force use and controling the spread of its understanding, interfered with the common people having a relationship with the force. Think of it this way: every sentient in the SW galaxy can has a connection to the force, not all are as sensitive to it but they are all apart of it. Having the Jedi and Sith eliminated or greatly reduced in power, allowed for the development of alternate vies and interpretation on the force. If I lived in the SW galaxy I certainly want to learn about the force no matter how low my potential.

Jim Raynor wrote:

You are being cynical. Just because some of this world's dominant religions came to power through purging and suppressing other belief systems doesn't mean that the Jedi are required to have done that. Can you provide evidence of the Jedi exterminating other belief systems rather than stating it as fact?

Try all of the worlds religons. And your not thinking the jedi order is composed primarily humans and possesed of human emotions. Prejudice for example remember Obi-wan's elitist comment in TPM. Mind you all those fallen jedi that were responsible for atrocities were STILL Jedi. To repeat kidnapping babies and converting them to your belief system is a proven and effective way to eliminate other belief system. In all of human history there has never been a benevolent and yet powerful institution. My beleif is than such is not possible, corruption IS inevitable. Leaving aside the ethics of baby napping; we have proof in human nature that the Jedi can not be as moral and pure as they profess to be. They hold them selves to an impossible standard, they are doomed to fail.

Moronic one on ones have no place in actual combat, and it is both stupid and dangerous to take part in them. It's even more harmful given that the Jedis aren't even a professional military force with real tactics. Just look at what their "honor" did for them at the Geonosian Arena battle. If they were really nasty they would have had ten guys gang bang Dooku first thing.

Of course, it would be moronic to attack one on one. I mention it because it was odd. Considering what we see in the OT. Its also moronic to send only one full Jedi against a Sith Lord. Militarily it would have been more prudent to send an overwhelming force. The Jedi are clearly not tacticians as seen in TPM & ATOC. The point is considering that GL wrote SW in mythic black and white terms. It seems odd that they would not fight man to man, like in the westerns.

It might be impossible to completely suppress anger, but that in no way makes it ok even use it to the Jedi. Both examples you named were clearly portrayed in a negative way.

It is impossible to completely surpress anger, in fact to even try would be very unhealthy. Repressing anger leads to stress, and stress will eventually kill you. A Jedi could easily harness his agressive feelings, without being consumed by them; most people accomplish it everyday. The Jedi belief in complete supression of negative emotions, leaves there members ill propared to deal with those feeling when they finally do experience them. Why do you think it so easy for them to fall to the darkside?


Muad'Dib wrote:

As to the nature of the force, well Mara Jade made the point in I Jedi. The Light/Dark side are basically the same thing, the fuel source is different. the Dark side is rich and powerful but will eventually burn the engine out, whereas the Light side is harderto find but easier on the engine. Also the purpose to which you wield the force has a lot to do with it. If you do something outta selfishness then it's darkside in you, but selflessness is the light side

The force is in all things it binds life, therefore it is neither good nor bad, like any weapon or tool it is simply misused

I agree it all in how you use it.



HDS wrote:

Pg. 145-146: One of those massive bipedal tentacle-faced predators lunged out of the shrub thicket with astonishing speed. It seized the nearest of the hoofed reptilians in powerful prehensile forepaws, its blade-tipped mouth-tentacles stabbing and sawing to swiftly slay and disjoint the captured animal, carving it into bite-sized hunks. As the rest of the herd bounded away, the predator settled down in the slanting sunlight to devour its kill.

"That is why this place is so dangerous," Vergere said with a hint of a challenging smile. "It is filled with what you would call the dark side. I should say: the dark side is very, very powerful here, more powerful than anywhere else on this planet. As powerful, perhaps, as it is anywhere in the galaxy."

Jacen lowered the electrobinoculars, blinking. "That's not the dark side," he said. "A predator hunts to feed itself and its family. That's just nature."

"And the dark side isn't? I thought the danger of the dark side was that it is natural: that's why it's easier than the light, yes?"

"Well, yes, but-"

"Is what you have seen not the exemplar of the dark side? Is this not what you fear so much: aggression, violence, passion?"

"You want to know what the real dark side would look like? If that predator had slaughtered the entire herd, just for the fun of it. For the joy of killing."

"Do you think this predator takes no joy in its successful kill?"

Jacen looked again through the electrobinoculars,watching for a moment as the predator seemed to shiver with delight in its meal. He didn't answer.

"Kill one, it's nature, kill them all, it's the dark side?" Vergere went on. "Is the line between nature and dark side only one of degree? Is it the dark side if that predator kills only half the herd? A quarter?"

He lowered the electrobinoculars once more. "It's the dark side if it kills more than it needs to feed itself and its family," he said, heating up. "That's the line. Killing when you don't need to kill."

Vergere cocked her head. "And how do you define need? Are we talking about the line of starvation, or simple malnutrition? Is it the dark side if they only eat half the slain animal? Does a predator partake of the dark side if its family is a few kilos overweight?"

"It's not about that-"

"Then what is it about? Are we back to why? Does intention always trump action? It's not the dark side for that predator, say, to slaughter the entire herd and leave them to rot, so long as it thinks it needs them for food?"

"It's not that simple," Jacen insisted. "And it's not always easy to describe-"

"But you know it when you see it, yes?"

He lowered his head stubbornly. "Yes."

Vergere uncoiled her fingers toward the blood-smeared predator on the slope below. "You didn't this time..."

(ref: Traitor)

Thanks HDS! If that doesn't prove what I've been saying nothing will. He can't even define that Dark Side. Is it like pornography, that we'll know it when we see it? They can't define it because is doesn't exist outside the mind of the force user.