What if Leia had been Chief of State during the NJO?

[Crown]

Yes she was such a 'bleeding heart pacifist' she sat out the entire rebellion prefering to use lobby groups to try and pressure the Emperor into changing some of his more belliclose policies - hang on! That's not what I saw in the movies!

But she was playing it the subterfuge route. She wasn't publicly up in arms against the Empire early on, no she was gun-running and spying instead. It's only after Vader blew the lid off of her little scheme that she'd actually pick up a blaster.

She also;

1. Had no problem grabbing a blaster and start shooting Stormtroopers in ANH.
2. Had no problem staying on Yavin and helpind direct and coordinate the attack on the DS, infact she actively tried to recruit Han aswell.
3. Was more than willing to allow Chewie to kill Lando for his betrayal.
4. Join and lead the gurilla attack force on the second DS shield.
5. Go into Jabba's palace and threaten to blow them all up with a thermal detonator.
6. Strangle Jabba in Sci-Fi's most memorable outfit.

None of these are the actions of a 'bleeding heart pacifist'. Your concession will now be accepted.

While she wasn't as corrupt as some of her superiors, everything that was wrong with the Republic was wrong with her.

Bullshit. She had no qualms about clearing up the Imperial, nor facing down Grand Admiral Thrawn. She had no qualms in allowing the military run its mission, and at no point during the canoncal movies did she ever shy away from a fight.

She played a vital role in making the government what it was; defunct. "Let's lose the battle by diverting most of our forces to save the civilians".

More bullshit (in terms of proper characterisation). She was actively involved in trying to recruit more military powers to help stope the YV, and before that the Empire. Anything else is a contradiction of canon. And besides we are discussing what Leia would have done if she was in charge so what ever she did do during that period cannot be used as evidence against her, since in this scenario it has yet to happen!

I'm genuinely disturbed by such stupidity, especially when even more lives are lost in the inevitable fall of whatever planet they failed to defend.

So am I. But such character discriptions are obvioulsy the result of hack writers, and do not properly reflect the true glory of the Mal'ary'ush. You would do well to remember it.

EDIT :: Bugger, Stofsk beat me to it!

[Mlenk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read the Bantam era EU in years, but was there ever a time when Leia shyed away from a fight while she was Chief of State? I don't think I remember any such time.

[Stofsk]

[to Crown]The scary thing is, our two posts said pretty much the same thing.



I guess Melbournians think alike. Or just kick arse. One or the other.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read the Bantam era EU in years, but was there ever a time when Leia shyed away from a fight while she was Chief of State? I don't think I remember any such time.

It's been awhile since I read the BFC, but I seem to recall she tried too hard to be diplomatic when the Leia that was established in the movies wouldn't have shied away from a fight. (I remember being largely disappointed with the BFC for that reason)

In the Thrawn trilogy she was a diplomat, but still didn't hesitate on doing the risky assignments - like going to the Noghri homeworld, or to Wayland. In SbS, the only NJO book I own and will EVER own ( ) she resigned whatever position she had in the NR bullshit government and is now working like a rebel.

[Crown]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't read the Bantam era EU in years, but was there ever a time when Leia shyed away from a fight while she was Chief of State? I don't think I remember any such time.

All the books I care to remember sort of say that while she was a diplomat, she never had a qualm about picking up a blaster and kicking some doors down, which wasn't quite the CoS thing to do really, but there you have it.

Even in the BFC, a trilogy that I have largely supressed, it opens with her introducing the latest aditions to the NR fleet, and then being accused of being like Vader/Palpy by some forgettable one book senator. Hardly the actions of a 'bleeding heart pacifist'.

[Crown]

Stofsk this is freaking me out man!

[Mlenk]

It's been awhile since I read the BFC, but I seem to recall she tried too hard to be diplomatic when the Leia that was established in the movies wouldn't have shied away from a fight. (I remember being largely disappointed with the BFC for that reason)

It's been awhile since I read that as well but from what I can remember wasn't she being diplomatic and nice to the Yevetha because she didn't think they were a threat in any way to the NR? She had a hard time taking them seriously as a threat for awhile.

In the Thrawn trilogy she was a diplomat, but still didn't hesitate on doing the risky assignments - like going to the Noghri homeworld, or to Wayland. In SbS, the only NJO book I own and will EVER own ( ) she resigned whatever position she had in the NR bullshit government and is now working like a rebel.

Also get Rebel Dream by Allston. IMO, that book is also worth owning.

[Crown]

Also get Rebel Dream by Allston. IMO, that book is also worth owning.

Indeed. It was the first one to feature ... Orbital - fucking - borbardment baby!

[Stofsk]

Stofsk this is freaking me out man!

Yeah, I'm scared too.

It's been awhile since I read that as well but from what I can remember wasn't she being diplomatic and nice to the Yevetha because she didn't think they were a threat in any way to the NR? She had a hard time taking them seriously as a threat for awhile.

Hmm... that's plausible actually. And as Crown said, she did begin the book by introducing the fifth Fleet, and was accused shortly thereafter of being "Palpatine-lite!" by the honourable Senator Shithead from Fuckplace.

Also get Rebel Dream by Allston. IMO, that book is also worth owning.

Aaron Allston comes with very high regard by a friend of mine who's read some of the WS books. I think I will read those first, then take my chances with the NJO again.

[Mlenk]

Indeed. It was the first one to feature ... Orbital - fucking - borbardment baby!

Wasn't that in book II, Rebel Stand?

[Crown]

Indeed. It was the first one to feature ... Orbital - fucking - borbardment baby!

Wasn't that in book II, Rebel Stand?

Huh! Could be, it's been a while you know ...

[Mlenk]

Yeah, I really should re-read those books again sometime.

[Ronaldo]

Also get Rebel Dream by Allston. IMO, that book is also worth owning.

Indeed. It was the first one to feature ... Orbital - fucking - borbardment baby!

I thought it was pretty silly that Nom Anor didn't even know that NR ships could conduct orbital bombardments.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Also get Rebel Dream by Allston. IMO, that book is also worth owning.

Indeed. It was the first one to feature ... Orbital - fucking - borbardment baby!

I thought it was pretty silly that Nom Anor didn't even know that NR ships could conduct orbital bombardments.

It would take precisely zero complex thought to realize the multi-thousand kilometer range teratonne-yield guns could be trained on planets.

[Darth Raptor]

<snip>

Okay! Jeez! Allright, allright I'm wrong!

I retract the statement.

[Crown]

<snip>

Okay! Jeez! Allright, allright I'm wrong!

I retract the statement.

He's on retreat! He's on retreat!


Quick bring the 'Croc knife!

[Stofsk]

The hidden (aus)Democrat's motto:

"We keep the bastards honest! And gut them if they lie..."

*sighs* I'd vote for them if that was really their motto... I like how I'm an angry aussie though.

Raptor, seriously speaking Leia is by-far my favourite character for a variety of reasons, so that's why I pounced on you as though you were an unruly croc. Anyway concession accepted.

[Darth Raptor]

Well personally I can't stand the mamby-pampbiness of the Skywalkers, and the blatant thumb-up-the-ass incompetence of the New Republic pisses me off to no end.

Sorry to go disrespecting your object of infatuation though.

[Stofsk]

You can't disrepect a chick wearing a bikini and killing massive slug creatures! If she had posed with a blaster... yowsa!

[consequences]

"Emperor's Hammer", the orbital bombardment, was done very near the end of Rebel Dream.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I still think the great tragedy of the NR was the Senate forcing the Supreme Commander to direct the battle of Coruscant from the floor. If I had been him (what was that guy's name?) I would have told them to fuck themselves, because I had a planet to defend.

[PainRack]

What do you think would have happened? Perhaps the anti-Jedi faction in the Senate wouldn't have gotten totally out of control and that traitorous Kuati Senator wouldn't have done so much damage.

Other than the anti jedi faction not interfering with the Jedi, and more overt cooperation with Jedi missions, I don't really see anything that might change in the early years.

The Republic wasn't facing some day old problem. It was facing a systematic problem ingrained into it, as could be seen in the BFC. We know the Republic never did have any significant form of stragetic reserves whatsoever, that's why Dark Empire could succeed. BFC and the Centrepoint Crisis showed that this problem dragged on, even the Young Jedi series illustrate this problem, with a ragtag fleet commandered by Admiral Ackbar dispatched to defend the Jedi Academy.

By the NJO period, a successive period of peace and prosperity has probably resulted in a "good times" feelings amongst the populace. Certainly, we learnt that military recruitment and retention was a problem, with pilots choosing to join the more profitable commercial sector and veterans retiring. IOW, the NR force was in a transition phase, from professional military based on the cadres of the Rebellion, to a newer generation of soldiers and more importantly, Generals. The NR military poor showing was a result of this and nothing suggests Leia could have changed any of this.


Lastly, we seen that Leia by BFC has already lost a significant portion of her popularity, as suggested by the various senators actions against her. The "hero" worship factor would appear to have lost its lustre on the voting Senators, such that she would retire as Chief of State a few years later. There is no possibility of her being able to drop what would have appeared to have been more pressing problems to attend to a random incursion amongst the Outer Rim.(Ignoring the accusation of hidden infomation)
Certainly, the Republic paucity of military reserves would have certainly prevented her from moving significant assets to supressing Sernidpal.

Furthermore, the Yuzhan Vong early reversals did not defeat them. The securing of a beachead in the galaxy was also not restricted along a single entry point. Even the few thousand warships the Yuzhan Vong brought with them, prior to the entry of larger fleets entering along with Nok Choka and Tsavong Lah will appear to have been sufficient to defend the initial beachead and the flow of supplies to incoming fleets, considering the known Republic lack of reserves.

It is also doubtful, in a climate of uncertainty the Yuzhan Vong generated whether a counter-offensive against the Yuzhan Vong early incursion could have occured. The lack of battlefield intelligence also cast in doubt the possibility of a successful counter-offensive.


Leia diplomatic, heroic persona and leadership skills would certainly affect the war effort, however, its uncertain exactly where the turning point could have occured. I will put my money on the events of the truce and the Jedi hunt period, but it may be earlier, it may be later, who knows?