Who or what are the Yevetha?

[Enforcer Talen]

if they used scramblers so they wouldnt receive enemy transmissions of prisoners.

[Darth Yoshi]

That's right. The Yevetha modus operandi was to capture prisoners, record them pleading for help, and broadcast them during battle. The Pride of Yevetha actually did have a hostage group, but a Fallanasi(sp?) woman helped them escape.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Scramblers? I don't understand.

Encryption devices, basically. If they are all listening to secure comms, even if the Yevetha got their frequency (which can be done with mere freq-scanning), they shouldn't be able to crack the encryption that quickly and let the hostage's voice go on the radio.

I suppose given time, the Yevethans might have cracked it, so it is possible for them to get on the frequency. But they would tell you in the very next book that it was only AFTER that farce did they bother to install scramblers and change frequencies.

Fuck. Even Aaron Allston remembers about encryption in military radios.

[PainRack]

By NR standards, 200 warships is pretty goodl

Honestly, the most disappointing part is the total breakdown of discipline that took place in the NR forces. Davith Sconn had it right - the NR Forces needed Discipline. Even after years, they still can't act like professionals.

Of course, if they had used scramblers, maybe the whole incident could have been avoided.

For the later point, wasn't the sequence that they broadcast in the open and the NR ships picked it up? IIRC, the novel had the gunner switch frequencies in order to hear the broadcast.

As for the first, I'm not totally surprised. For one, the Fifth fleet is a new formation, with no entrenched traditions and leaders. For second, its hard to order a soldier to commit a massacre of civilians, especially since the NR doesn't doctrinate its troops, something that SAC does.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

For the later point, wasn't the sequence that they broadcast in the open and the NR ships picked it up? IIRC, the novel had the gunner switch frequencies in order to hear the broadcast.

Looks like the Yevetha were deliberately putting it on. There's is no shifting of freqs. It is on EVERY freq they happen to be using. Tuketu was just a bit slow to realize something had gotten onto their airwaves.

As for the first, I'm not totally surprised. For one, the Fifth fleet is a new formation, with no entrenched traditions and leaders. For second, its hard to order a soldier to commit a massacre of civilians, especially since the NR doesn't doctrinate its troops, something that SAC does.

They are there to attack warships. For all they know, those could be tape recordings, or with SW tech, they could easily be digitally produced from NOTHING, especially since they would never have to stand up to any close inspection.

I doubt any military doesn't do indoctrination, because all militaries tend to impress their values onto their troops. Unless you use indoctrination to mean the stuff performed at the Imperial Academy and Earth's Strategic Forces to ensure that when the time comes, they'd push the correct buttons.

The NR Academy obviously places too much emphasis on protecting Freedom and all that and not enough on Discipline and Following Orders, which are the basic commands for any soldier.

To be honest, I wasn't shocked. Just sounds like the wimpy NR to have troops like that. Only disappointed.

Sconn: On the orders of Grand Moff Dureya. For some reason, people are always leaving that part out. Don't you Rebels believe in Discipline? I still can't figure out how you managed to defeat us.

Yeah, with troops like that. I don't get it either. It must have been Wedge Antilles and a few others who had been winning enough victories to make up for the incompetence of everyone else.

[PainRack]

They are there to attack warships. For all they know, those could be tape recordings, or with SW tech, they could easily be digitally produced from NOTHING, especially since they would never have to stand up to any close inspection.

I doubt any military doesn't do indoctrination, because all militaries tend to impress their values onto their troops. Unless you use indoctrination to mean the stuff performed at the Imperial Academy and Earth's Strategic Forces to ensure that when the time comes, they'd push the correct buttons.

The NR Academy obviously places too much emphasis on protecting Freedom and all that and not enough on Discipline and Following Orders, which are the basic commands for any soldier.

To be honest, I wasn't shocked. Just sounds like the wimpy NR to have troops like that. Only disappointed.

Its not that any military doesn't do indoctrination, its the idea any human being has against killing innoncents. Its diffcult as it is to kill an enemy soldier. Killing enemy civilians, or worse, your own civilians usually goes beyond the moral grain of people.

Discipline and following orders only go so far.

[Crown]

Its not that any military doesn't do indoctrination, its the idea any human being has against killing innoncents. Its diffcult as it is to kill an enemy soldier. Killing enemy civilians, or worse, your own civilians usually goes beyond the moral grain of people.

Discipline and following orders only go so far.

Sorry you're wrong. I know you would like to think that you are right, hell I would love to think that you are right because I once thought the same, but you're not.

There was a psychological study in the 50's - 60's that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt than one human being would quite consciously kill another human being by just 'following orders' from an authority figure.

Sound cruel and wrong? It is. But it is also apart of us.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Sorry you're wrong. I know you would like to think that you are right, hell I would love to think that you are right because I once thought the same, but you're not.

There was a psychological study in the 50's - 60's that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt than one human being would quite consciously kill another human being by just 'following orders' from an authority figure.

Sound cruel and wrong? It is. But it is also apart of us.

Yes, I have heard of that study. On the other hand, there are other studies AFAIK which say that very few infantry (I think like 10%) really aim at the enemy, though most would pull the trigger on orders.

Killing Men tend to be different things than killing ships and planes. AFAIK, there had been no studies done to show people have major problems doing so. Intellectually, the people are in the ships and planes, but psychologically, you feel like you are shooting a hunk of metal, which makes it easier.

I could accept it if the NR wimped out on shooting civilians arrayed in front of Yevethan infantry. But all they have to do is shoot at a ship.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Do you know that I actually read the books, and this synopsis was the first time I actually realised what the whole trilogy was all about?!

It's because the whole series was bull crap and confusing. This series of books so thoroughly pissed me off I quit reading the books for a while.

I agree with you from the other post you made, it was the most bo-ring SW book ever, mainly because everytime there seemed to be a space battle, the author suddenly pulled back like he was scared of being a premature ejaculator.

New Rebellion...
Planet of Twilight...

I think all 3 tied for worst. BTW, the ship was the Telkjorn Vagabond and had nothing to do with Outbound Flight.

[Stofsk]

BTW, the ship was the Telkjorn Vagabond and had nothing to do with Outbound Flight.

It also had nothing to do with the central plot of the books. In all regards it fulfilled the function of a ST "B" story, ie useless in all ways. And Luke's drama was a "C" story, ie something which doesn't get resolved, although it's "important."

I hate the BFC trilogy.

[Rogue 9]

Hey, at least it cut back on the normal EU minimalism somewhat.

[Stofsk]

Hey, at least it cut back on the normal EU minimalism somewhat.

You have a point. The thing I enjoyed most about the BFC was at the very start. It opened up with an excellent hook, having the Imperials get surprised by unconventional commando tactics was impressive. Then it follows straight after with a very cool battle sequence, which then turns into a wargames scenario. Again, very cool. I liked the Fifth Fleet on maneuvres and I like the K-wings - and Tuketu, who I was hoping to get to know better - making that bomb run also a delight to read.

Then we get Leia catching flak and other idiotic politicians. "You can't have wargames! FACIST!"

Then we have her try to convince the Yevetha to join, even though they happen to be xenophobic nutballs. "We hate you." "Smashing! Come join us."

Then we have uber-Luke go on his pointless little journey. "You knew my mum? Great! Let's have sex. Oh, wait, you lied to me about knowing my mum so you can use me? Do we still get to have sex? What do you mean "no?" Oh, I understand, I'm not your "type." Whore."

Then we have Lando run off and play Indiana Jones. I actually wouldn't have minded that story if it had been a standalone, and had a novel dedicated to telling it. As it stands it doesn't do anything to forward the central plot in any significant detail, other than giving Lando, 3P0 and R2 something to do.

It was also my first foray into the world of SW EU. It was good enough to make me want to read more SW, but bad enough to make me shake my head in dismay. The problem is the story itself is actually decent. I like the ideas of a post-Civil War NR trying to stand on it's two feet and deal with belligerent nations who live next door. There were elements there which could have been an effective drama. Unfortunately there were a number of problems, including what someone has already said - the writer was scared of writing about battles. Everytime a battle seemed to form he would get scared and end it, or cop out and have some bizarre deus ex machina like Force Bitches coming in and casting "Illusion" on several thousand people, flawlessly. Christ, what the fuck is wrong with a good pound down? It would have been a different type of war as well, you have the RA being the outnumbered and outgunned evolving to the NR who have all the numbers and guns they could need. I would have welcomed a story showing us how they would have handled that. Oh well. It's not as bad as KJA.

[PainRack]

Sorry you're wrong. I know you would like to think that you are right, hell I would love to think that you are right because I once thought the same, but you're not.

There was a psychological study in the 50's - 60's that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt than one human being would quite consciously kill another human being by just 'following orders' from an authority figure.

Sound cruel and wrong? It is. But it is also apart of us.

Studies from WW2, comissioned after the war all show that most troops would hesitate to fire on a human being, whether under fire or not. Indeed, the British initially started a "Hate" training programme in order to override this, but it was reversed when polls show that the Hate training lowered morale amongst the troops.

Ultimately, soldiers were conditioned to see enemy troops fall and die, when realistic 1.1, 1.2 and 1.6 figures were used instead of the old red bull eyes targets.

Even then, in the 60s, it was shown that the fighting effectives of a platoon was less than 10% of its combat strenght. Training revamps, including revamping NCOs training was seen as crucial to increasing the number of effectives in a battle.

Comissioned studies during WW2 also attempted to answer the questions of "lack of moral fibre" in WW2 pilots. Ultimately, the reason why most airforces restrict pilots to officers is because it was determined that only officers could had the independence and "moral fortitude" to carry on with their missions despite enemy fire.


Ultimately, I would like to say this. Its easy to kill when its the "enemy". The enemy is not seen as one of us. However, introduce the possibility of killing a friendly as seen in BFC, it isn't unusual for the relatively green troops of the Fifth Fleet to have broken.

[JME2]

That he and some Force weirdos will create a massive NR fleet, impossible to determine from sensors that it is so, to intimidate the Yevetha into giving up.

They weren't Force weirdos, they were... I don't know, something-other-than-the-Force weirdos. Called it the White Current, but in any case Luke couldn't pick up on what they were doing through the Force at all. None of them were Force sensitive, and he performed the usual EU checks for this on them IIRC.

It was like the rest of the trilogy; interesting, but just too f***'d up for its own good in my opinion. At least KJA didn't write it...