"Great, another excuse to rant about the utter shite churned out by KJA. Emperor Palpatine said "you will pay the price for your lack of vison"- unfortunately KJA hasn't."
Didja know he raped the Dune franchise too? Ok, the books after the first Dune book were shite, but KJA made them look like brilliance incarnate compared to his novel.
Favorite Novel
Moderator: Vympel
Re: Some people got no reason to live
"Anyone who thinks that Aaron Allston is anywhere near as good as Tim Zahn should rethink their lives, or move to a European country with a decent education system."
I'd rather rethink your opinions, since they're wrong. <j/k> Anyway, I think Allston is quite good. He even injected some sense into Stackpole's egoerotica - how easy could that be?
"The only other SW writer who can even challenge Zahn on that is Denning, because of SbS."
Possibly. Never read that one.
"Overall, I think that Zahn writes better plots and Denning has a slightly cleaner, more polished style."
One thing at which Allston trumps Zahn is describing the emotions of his characters. He made the reader care about the characters in Wraith Squadron and then let them die. Zahn is good, but his characters were more distant, more restrained. It's a different style, but to me Allston's was superior.
"I give the slight edge to Zahn and the wonderful Heir to the Empire, but only because Star by Star's title was incredibly stupid."
And "Attack of the Clones"?
"If you don't believe me about Denning, compare SbS's depictions of combat with the BOOK Blackhawk Down. And for God's sake, many of you people need to read real books instead of Hop on Pop, once in a while."
Uh... why? I read a "real" book just a few days ago. It was called Lord of Light, by Roger Zelazny. To be honest, the prevalent cultural snobbery and condescension toward fantasy and sci-fi today irritates me.
I'd rather rethink your opinions, since they're wrong. <j/k> Anyway, I think Allston is quite good. He even injected some sense into Stackpole's egoerotica - how easy could that be?
"The only other SW writer who can even challenge Zahn on that is Denning, because of SbS."
Possibly. Never read that one.
"Overall, I think that Zahn writes better plots and Denning has a slightly cleaner, more polished style."
One thing at which Allston trumps Zahn is describing the emotions of his characters. He made the reader care about the characters in Wraith Squadron and then let them die. Zahn is good, but his characters were more distant, more restrained. It's a different style, but to me Allston's was superior.
"I give the slight edge to Zahn and the wonderful Heir to the Empire, but only because Star by Star's title was incredibly stupid."
And "Attack of the Clones"?
"If you don't believe me about Denning, compare SbS's depictions of combat with the BOOK Blackhawk Down. And for God's sake, many of you people need to read real books instead of Hop on Pop, once in a while."
Uh... why? I read a "real" book just a few days ago. It was called Lord of Light, by Roger Zelazny. To be honest, the prevalent cultural snobbery and condescension toward fantasy and sci-fi today irritates me.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
My favorites are The Bacta War and Starfighters of Adumar. :sigh: I love X-wings!
Hey, what's this about rethinking your life if you like Aaron Allston? :groan: Look, Zahn and Allston are good writers, but they have different subjects
Zahn- writes about big stuff like Thrawn and Luke and Han and the whole galaxy (big picture)
Allston (and Stackpole) - focuses on a few characters (Rogues and Wraiths) and their personal views and battles.
Hey, what's this about rethinking your life if you like Aaron Allston? :groan: Look, Zahn and Allston are good writers, but they have different subjects
Zahn- writes about big stuff like Thrawn and Luke and Han and the whole galaxy (big picture)
Allston (and Stackpole) - focuses on a few characters (Rogues and Wraiths) and their personal views and battles.
JADAFETWA
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Cal Wright
- American Warlord
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Well, let's see how long this post can be. Heh.
First off, side note. In the RotJ novelisation, it states that 'for only the second time in Luke's life, he lifted from his home planet Tatooine.' With that said, shouldn't it be canon that he only left Tatooine twice? Why do I mention that you ask? Here we go.
My favorite novel is Shadows of the Empire. Hands down it is Star Wars. Yet it even manages to accomplish what the EU always does, contradict canon. Luke left Tatooine like three times in that book. Other than that nit pick, SotE rocks. The game rocks, the toys rock, it just rocks man. (Looks up at the Xizor vinyl figure).
At first I was a huge Stackpole fan, and an Alston hater. But I have turned a new leaf after re-reading the Stackpole X-Wing books and the NJO books. Really to me, he has his Corran Horn hang up. But that seems like what I would do too, is make a character like that to focus on. However, by no fault of his own, X-Wings will not take down an ISD by themselves. That's WEG and the computer games there. However, if you read, all the characters think and act alike. He constantly has thought quotes and they all see things, react, and draw conclusions the same way. Plus his fleet engagements are small and trivial. An SSD vs what, like two or three ISDs and fighters. Get real.
The toss up between Zahn and Allston for me gets heated up. While Zahn managed to do some contradiction and basically things that don't hold up to the movies, his Trilogy and Duology just seem scattered then all of the sudden fall together right when it counts. Allston, his first two X-Wing books to me were not that great, but Solo Command I've probably read a few times. That book is just great reading. The fighters chasing after the Iron Fist through the asteroids was exhilirating. Starfighters of Adumar, while it was one of the first to get away from NR vs GE still held me in there. I will have to agree with Shady, his NJO books just took it up a level. Personally I have totally hated the NJO series. Luceno did one hell of a job with Solo. Denning's book was good, and I don't know what kind of auther he is, but even considering what he had to work with still didn't come through for me. Greg Keyes must have received a little freedom, because he was able to get Anakin to see the YV in the Force. That concept right there, the YV are not seen in the Force, is just a slap to Lucas' face. It holds that regard for a few reasons.
First, it seems that almost every author has found a cop out to the Force. Starts with Zahn and they ysalamari. Luke will get hurt, and now the YV. It's just a huge list of cop outs here and there. Rarely do you see someone use the Force on the Vong. Someone did a Force choke and I believe some objects got tossed around, but that's about it. The only real reason the Jedi win any engagements is thier ability to really link in during starfighter dogfights, and that they are superior swordsman.
Second, the Force is created by ALL living things. That's canon, like it or not. So this YV concept is in conflict. I know some people like it this way, and to them it's interesting. However for me, I do not like Sci Fi, or fantasy, yet Star Wars is a mixture of both. Personally, you take out the Force, the ability to have fleet engagements, literally they have taken the nut out of the shell and then put it back on the shelf.
This is what I want to see in the NJO.
1. 'Oh' exlaims Luke upon sudden realisation, 'The Vong have never been outside the Force, we just weren't looking in the right treasure chest.' With a slight suggestion, the troop of Yuzhan Vong warriors do not even notice Luke walking right past them to the chamber housing the yammosk.
2. 'Sir, we have a new diagnostics of the enemy coming in.' The unretired Admiral Ackbar looks over the data stream. His barabels twitch. Then in an approximation of a smile, he opens his mouth. 'These dovin basals cannot keep the voids up under a barrage of increased firepower. Weapons, maximum firepower to all batteries. Put us through that blockade.'
3.With a slight parrie, Mara Jade Skywalker deflects the amphistaff upward, and with a direct jab, she sends her silvery blade piercing the vondum crab armor. 'With enough thrust we can burn through those armor plates.'
First off, side note. In the RotJ novelisation, it states that 'for only the second time in Luke's life, he lifted from his home planet Tatooine.' With that said, shouldn't it be canon that he only left Tatooine twice? Why do I mention that you ask? Here we go.
My favorite novel is Shadows of the Empire. Hands down it is Star Wars. Yet it even manages to accomplish what the EU always does, contradict canon. Luke left Tatooine like three times in that book. Other than that nit pick, SotE rocks. The game rocks, the toys rock, it just rocks man. (Looks up at the Xizor vinyl figure).
At first I was a huge Stackpole fan, and an Alston hater. But I have turned a new leaf after re-reading the Stackpole X-Wing books and the NJO books. Really to me, he has his Corran Horn hang up. But that seems like what I would do too, is make a character like that to focus on. However, by no fault of his own, X-Wings will not take down an ISD by themselves. That's WEG and the computer games there. However, if you read, all the characters think and act alike. He constantly has thought quotes and they all see things, react, and draw conclusions the same way. Plus his fleet engagements are small and trivial. An SSD vs what, like two or three ISDs and fighters. Get real.
The toss up between Zahn and Allston for me gets heated up. While Zahn managed to do some contradiction and basically things that don't hold up to the movies, his Trilogy and Duology just seem scattered then all of the sudden fall together right when it counts. Allston, his first two X-Wing books to me were not that great, but Solo Command I've probably read a few times. That book is just great reading. The fighters chasing after the Iron Fist through the asteroids was exhilirating. Starfighters of Adumar, while it was one of the first to get away from NR vs GE still held me in there. I will have to agree with Shady, his NJO books just took it up a level. Personally I have totally hated the NJO series. Luceno did one hell of a job with Solo. Denning's book was good, and I don't know what kind of auther he is, but even considering what he had to work with still didn't come through for me. Greg Keyes must have received a little freedom, because he was able to get Anakin to see the YV in the Force. That concept right there, the YV are not seen in the Force, is just a slap to Lucas' face. It holds that regard for a few reasons.
First, it seems that almost every author has found a cop out to the Force. Starts with Zahn and they ysalamari. Luke will get hurt, and now the YV. It's just a huge list of cop outs here and there. Rarely do you see someone use the Force on the Vong. Someone did a Force choke and I believe some objects got tossed around, but that's about it. The only real reason the Jedi win any engagements is thier ability to really link in during starfighter dogfights, and that they are superior swordsman.
Second, the Force is created by ALL living things. That's canon, like it or not. So this YV concept is in conflict. I know some people like it this way, and to them it's interesting. However for me, I do not like Sci Fi, or fantasy, yet Star Wars is a mixture of both. Personally, you take out the Force, the ability to have fleet engagements, literally they have taken the nut out of the shell and then put it back on the shelf.
This is what I want to see in the NJO.
1. 'Oh' exlaims Luke upon sudden realisation, 'The Vong have never been outside the Force, we just weren't looking in the right treasure chest.' With a slight suggestion, the troop of Yuzhan Vong warriors do not even notice Luke walking right past them to the chamber housing the yammosk.
2. 'Sir, we have a new diagnostics of the enemy coming in.' The unretired Admiral Ackbar looks over the data stream. His barabels twitch. Then in an approximation of a smile, he opens his mouth. 'These dovin basals cannot keep the voids up under a barrage of increased firepower. Weapons, maximum firepower to all batteries. Put us through that blockade.'
3.With a slight parrie, Mara Jade Skywalker deflects the amphistaff upward, and with a direct jab, she sends her silvery blade piercing the vondum crab armor. 'With enough thrust we can burn through those armor plates.'
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
The Dark Guard Fleet
Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Darth Yoshi
- Metroid
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Starfighters of Adumar. Hand of Thrawn comes at a close second.
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
I'd have to go for the X-wing series, but merely because I can' bear the thought of reading about Thrawn's death twice. That was the saddest moment I've ever experienced in SF.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
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- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
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Darth Yoshi
- Metroid
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Actually, it's three times if you count Thrawn, his clone, and Flim.
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
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Captain Cyran
- Psycho Mini-lop
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If I remember correctly Flim didn't die...he was arrested. But I must agree, it was painful when Thrawn died.
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CmdrWilkens
- Emperor's Hand
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Tyrant's Test is, suprise I'm sure, my favorite but only from page 193 onwards. Honestly I think the pages going forward from that are the best.
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
I cried when that happened. Thrawn's the greatest, sexiest guy in Sci Fi, and he had to die because George Lucas won't let anyone kill off bloody puke stystalker...(whinge, whinge, grumble, grumble... stupid cahracter ownership... Jar Jar creating monster...)
Well, that's what I think anyway.
On that point, why did they have to kill off Chewie before they got rid of all the crap characters, I mean, aside from han, the droids and maybe leia, who would really miss anyone?
Except of course for Thrawn, who wasn't a rebel, and hence had to die.
Well, that's what I think anyway.
On that point, why did they have to kill off Chewie before they got rid of all the crap characters, I mean, aside from han, the droids and maybe leia, who would really miss anyone?
Except of course for Thrawn, who wasn't a rebel, and hence had to die.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
Hand of Thrawn duology (?). It's got it all; fleet actions, Admiral Pelleon, Mara Jade, explosions, sniper rifles, the threat of mass conflict between many worlds over a genuine issue (not some piffling BS pulled randomly out the hat), Luke not being a super-powered dickhead, and Thrawn (sort of). How can it fail?
"Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa! Let's get the hell out of here already! Screw history!" - Professor Farnsworth
It can't BWHAAHAHAHAHHAH!Hand of Thrawn duology (?). It's got it all; fleet actions, Admiral Pelleon, Mara Jade, explosions, sniper rifles, the threat of mass conflict between many worlds over a genuine issue (not some piffling BS pulled randomly out the hat), Luke not being a super-powered dickhead, and Thrawn (sort of). How can it fail
Great Great Books
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
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Master of Ossus
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CmdrWilkens wrote:Tyrant's Test is, suprise I'm sure, my favorite but only from page 193 onwards. Honestly I think the pages going forward from that are the best.
Oooh, 200 pages of good literature crammed into a 1000 page-long trilogy!
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
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Master of Ossus
- Darkest Knight
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I actually liked Anakin. I think that Jacen "let's let the Yuuzhan Vong walk over the Galaxy just because they want to" Solo should have gotten the ax. I hate that guy. I hate his attitude. I hate the fact that he never does anything. I hate the fact that when he does do something it always fails. And I hate the fact that he doesn't even care!Lusankya wrote:I cried when that happened. Thrawn's the greatest, sexiest guy in Sci Fi, and he had to die because George Lucas won't let anyone kill off bloody puke stystalker...(whinge, whinge, grumble, grumble... stupid cahracter ownership... Jar Jar creating monster...)
Well, that's what I think anyway.
On that point, why did they have to kill off Chewie before they got rid of all the crap characters, I mean, aside from han, the droids and maybe leia, who would really miss anyone?
Except of course for Thrawn, who wasn't a rebel, and hence had to die.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
Timothy Zahn, for me is the only Star Wars author, whose books I buy without reading the blurb, or the first few pages first. I just know that he will create a good, entertaining story with believable characters. However I also enjoy Stackpole and Alliston, however these authors are wrtting in two totally different styles. Zahn writes, in a grand space opera style, with strategies, schemes and plots, and the odd character focused page or two.
Conversely the other two have the exact opposite writting manner. Which one do I prefer? Well Zahn's Heir to the Empire. Not because it was the best one he wrote, but it was the book that brought it all back to life again for me. I would also like to note that I have read Zahn's other books as well and I believe he is one of the best authors ever! Blackcollar and the The Icarus Hunt were just super!
Conversely the other two have the exact opposite writting manner. Which one do I prefer? Well Zahn's Heir to the Empire. Not because it was the best one he wrote, but it was the book that brought it all back to life again for me. I would also like to note that I have read Zahn's other books as well and I believe he is one of the best authors ever! Blackcollar and the The Icarus Hunt were just super!
Η ζωή, η ζωή εδω τελειώνει!
"Science is one cold-hearted bitch with a 14" strap-on" - Masuka 'Dexter'
"Angela is not the woman you think she is Gabriel, she's done terrible things"
"So have I, and I'm going to do them all to you." - Sylar to Arthur 'Heroes'
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MagicHateBall
- Youngling
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Heir to the Empire, hands down.
Whoever is running the SW book franchise now should be kissing Zahn's feet and trying to get him back and writing for them. He's the best author they've had.
Stackpole comes in a close second. He's probably one of the best fanfiction writers ever (if he's ever done a work in an original universe, I've never heard of it).
Whoever is running the SW book franchise now should be kissing Zahn's feet and trying to get him back and writing for them. He's the best author they've had.
Stackpole comes in a close second. He's probably one of the best fanfiction writers ever (if he's ever done a work in an original universe, I've never heard of it).
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer
Yeah, Anakin too, but I meant the movie characters - the ones that noone can kill without going through GL first. I'd miss Mara too, because apart from falling in love with Luke, she's pretty cool. And Pellaeon too - Strange how all the best EU characters were invented by Zahn.I actually liked Anakin. I think that Jacen "let's let the Yuuzhan Vong walk over the Galaxy just because they want to" Solo should have gotten the ax. I hate that guy. I hate his attitude. I hate the fact that he never does anything. I hate the fact that when he does do something it always fails. And I hate the fact that he doesn't even care!
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
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CmdrWilkens
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Screw you dude, Before the Storm was an awesome expansion of characters and the leai segment of Shield of Lies was good even if it doesn't make up for the indignity of suffering through the rest of that novel. In toerh words the trilogy was about 2/3rds good writing but I happen to think the last 200 pages of Tyrant's Test are some of the best bits of SW out there.Master of Ossus wrote:CmdrWilkens wrote:Tyrant's Test is, suprise I'm sure, my favorite but only from page 193 onwards. Honestly I think the pages going forward from that are the best.
Oooh, 200 pages of good literature crammed into a 1000 page-long trilogy!
SDNet World Nation: Wilkonia
Armourer of the WARWOLVES
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
ASVS Vet's Association (Class of 2000)
Former C.S. Strowbridge Gold Ego Award Winner
MEMBER of the Anti-PETA Anti-Facist LEAGUE
"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. "
-Kingdom of Heaven
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Micheal Ryans, Beta pilot
- Jedi Knight
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I say Edge of Victory I: Conquest. It has possibly the most truthful words ever spoken in the NJO "I love you." Spoken by Anakin Solo to Tahiri Veila. Truther words were never spoken.
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"StarDestroyer.net: Even our idiots are smarter." - RedImperator
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"Know the ECM. Love the ECM. Cherish the ECM, for it jams thine enemys targeting."- Necronlord
HALOite, Robotech/Macross supporter, 40Ker, and part-time Warsie.
"StarDestroyer.net: Even our idiots are smarter." - RedImperator
"A Terminator Space Marine. Also known as your worst nightmare." Stormbringer
"Know the ECM. Love the ECM. Cherish the ECM, for it jams thine enemys targeting."- Necronlord
HALOite, Robotech/Macross supporter, 40Ker, and part-time Warsie.
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Lord Pounder
- Pretty Hate Machine
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The Hand of Thrawn Duology.
Luke got his hole with an actual hottie, Pealleon got the debth his character deserved and the Empire gave up it's xenophobia.
They were 2 very good books and rise, like all of Zhan's Work, above the rest.
I'm glad some mentioned KJA assraping Dune, saves me having to, that man should be hanged for his crines against Sci-Fi writting. A few associates of mine who like X-Flies spoke similar crimes on his part towards their wee universe.
Luke got his hole with an actual hottie, Pealleon got the debth his character deserved and the Empire gave up it's xenophobia.
They were 2 very good books and rise, like all of Zhan's Work, above the rest.
I'm glad some mentioned KJA assraping Dune, saves me having to, that man should be hanged for his crines against Sci-Fi writting. A few associates of mine who like X-Flies spoke similar crimes on his part towards their wee universe.
RIP Yosemite Bear
Gone, Never Forgotten
Gone, Never Forgotten
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Darth Garden Gnome
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hasn't anyone ever told you not to bring up dead threads, hmmmm? SheeshMicheal Ryans, Beta pilot wrote:I say Edge of Victory I: Conquest. It has possibly the most truthful words ever spoken in the NJO "I love you." Spoken by Anakin Solo to Tahiri Veila. Truther words were never spoken.
Leader of the Secret Gnome Revolution