New Republic & Imperial Fleet calcs

[Raptor 597]

Kinda hard to believe that the ISD force could be more then 1/4 the total fleet strength.

How the heck could the New Republic hope to defeat the empire, even after the death of the Emperor. Sheesh Thrawn or Issard should have been able to pull together the empire and rail road the Rebels.

Well, you see without a nifying leader in the first week alone the Imperial Forces lost 10% Fleet Strength through Warlordism. It was then luckily united before the Navy destroyed themselves. And Thrawn did railroad the Rebels with a few ISDs atleast thats all we saw in the Novels, an Elite Star Destroer Squdron kicking ass across the board. And Isard could of held the Rebels so easy with Imperial Center, if se had only left her main Fleet at the Edge of the System once the Krytos Virus started kicking, or just hit the Attacking Fleet at the right moment. And why they won? The Imperials basically turned on themselves, after Endor so many planets were sidetracked, and a new supply force. They had like 500,000 Member Worlds after courtship of Leia basically those 500 k outside of the Core. They could make a strong Navy, and the Imperials were just bent on destruction. Then you may be right nurmically, a shitload of Cruisers coul outnumber 2 million ISDs all I'm staying is there are alot of them.

[His Divine Shadow]

I am assuming that the Imperial fleet is made up of primarily corevets and smaller cruisers....

The whole damn thing isnt Star Destroyers is it?

The ISD's stand for less than 1% of the fleet strenght, so they should, they are big expensive jack-of-all trades ships.

Battleship, carrier, planetary assault platform and many more in one ship.
They are not required to be built in bulk, sure an ISD is cpable of kicking the ass of just about eveyr other ship it's size and some bigger ships too, but it's wastefull to build alot of them, instead they make a small number and have the elite of the fleet on those ships, ofcourse, nepotism kinda screwed up that idea.

[Raptor 597]

I am assuming that the Imperial fleet is made up of primarily corevets and smaller cruisers....

The whole damn thing isnt Star Destroyers is it?

The ISD's stand for less than 1% of the fleet strenght, so they should, they are big expensive jack-of-all trades ships.

Battleship, carrier, planetary assault platform and many more in one ship.
They are not required to be built in bulk, sure an ISD is cpable of kicking the ass of just about eveyr other ship it's size and some bigger ships too, but it's wastefull to build alot of them, instead they make a small number and have the elite of the fleet on those ships, ofcourse, nepotism kinda screwed up that idea.

Thanks, HDS I wasn't too sure haven't read up any EU invloving SDs involving Republic Star Destroyers, from NJO and only from SBS later. But what was your source?

[DodoBrd16]

Okay, cool 1% seems alot more believable.

[His Divine Shadow]

Thanks, HDS I wasn't too sure haven't read up any EU invloving SDs involving Republic Star Destroyers, from NJO and only from SBS later. But what was your source?

The republic has Star Destroyers too, captured Imperators(they might even manufactor Imperators) and their own version, which is a smaller purpose built ship, almost as much firepower as an ISD2, though less fighters, less crew, less soldiers, possibly lesser shields, and it can only be away from a supply base for 6 months while an ISD can last for 6 years.

My source was otherwise myself, look at what the Imperator is capable doing, and it's specs, the results are obvious when pared the numbers it is manufactured in, only 25.000 ISD's in the Empire at it's height.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Someone needs to compile the quotes and come up with reasonable fleet values for the NR/Rebel Alliance and the Empire throughout the Galactic Civil War. I have no idea how this is going to work and the Chronology suggests the New Republic recaptured nearly all of its territory after the Empire re-imploded after Empire's End.

[His Divine Shadow]

Someone needs to compile the quotes and come up with reasonable fleet values for the NR/Rebel Alliance and the Empire throughout the Galactic Civil War. I have no idea how this is going to work and the Chronology suggests the New Republic recaptured nearly all of its territory after the Empire re-imploded after Empire's End.

I believe that is impossible.
We only know the height of the imps and the lowest of the NR with any certanty.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Bah. I still think we're rounding too low for the Black Fleet Crisis NR's fleet. The sector forces are replaced by local defense fleets in the NR and it is highly indicated that the New Republic largely recovered from the Emperor's blitzkrieg soon after his final death.

[His Divine Shadow]

Bah. I still think we're rounding too low for the Black Fleet Crisis NR's fleet. The sector forces are replaced by local defense fleets in the NR and it is highly indicated that the New Republic largely recovered from the Emperor's blitzkrieg soon after his final death.

Where, exactly is that indicated?
I can't see how it would play out like that given how utterly they where stomped.

[His Divine Shadow]

I personally think it makes alot of sense, and also how the Vong where able to get so far.

Also, we're not including the individual fleets of member worlds.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Republic maintained just under a quarter of their territory at their lowest point, IMHO. And that's conservative in my opinion.

The speed with which the Empire crumbled was amazing, surpassing the mass confusion that occurred following the Battle of Endor.

Carnor Jax and the Interim Council held the Empire proper, a narrow band stretching from the Outer Rim to the Colonies. But not even this would remain intact.

After years of time-consuming repairs, the Lusankya had finally been relaunched in the wake of Operation Shadow Hand, and it was still such a secret that many Imperials were unaware of its existence.

Circumstancial Evidence Here: The New Republic maintained the yards and resources to continue refitting and to crew the Executor-class Commandship Lusankya.

Troopships and heavy armor are directed against Imperial supply ports and shipyards....and, without success, against the Galaxy Gun itself.

Circumstancial Evidence Here: The New Republic maintained the fleet resources, organization, and size to launch counteroffensives against Imperial positions and shipyards (laying siege to them as written later in the comic). Troopships casualling roundezvoused with fighter groups in deep space were carrying one hundred thousand New Republic Army troops and heavy armor and supplies for ground assualt. Heavy ground assualt and "sieges" of Imperial worlds likely would involve the use of ships to blockade shielded planets. Attempted New Republic offensives all the way to Byss is suggested. This indicates that if these sieges were feasable, that the New Republic's military itself was too large to affectively counter with this weapon, as the Imperial High Command instead chose to pick off ships as a show of force to New Republic member worlds in hope of depriving them of support and resources. The New Republic was hardly reduced to pre-Endor levels here, however their leadership was highly vulnerable to being picked off all at once by this weapon, and thus the New Republic High Command and government-in-exile was forced to hide in a Rebellion-style fashion. They were still fighting a traditional war with the Empire.

His actions angered Baron D'Asta, a pro-Imperial business leader who controlled the largest privately owned fleet in the galaxy. Braon D'Asta's fleet attacked the council headquarters on Ord Cantrell, forcing "Emperor" Carivus to sue for peace.

The New Republic counteroffensives following the Emperor's final destruction appear to have weakened the extra-Deep Core territories (which dwarf the Imperial remnant with 200 ISDs later on) to the point where a private fleet is able to rout the Imperial head-of-state's forces and sieze the capital, forcing a settlement. To a business leader. And the business fleet could not have been overly large. With the exception of the distant Imperial client state known as the Corperate Sector Authority, the largest private fleet we ever see that Palpatine allows in the civilized regions of the galaxy is Xizor's pathetic fleet containing nothing larger then a frigate.

The remnants of the Empire, under the direction of a reincarnated Emperor Palpatine, reduces the New Republic's sphere of influence to less than half of the galaxy.

Circumstancial Evidence: They say the New Republic's been reduced to "less than half" the galaxy.

"This is our galaxy," Mon Mothma said. "We have meticulously plotted every recorded system. These stars"--she waved her hand, and a wash of blue spangled across the arms of the galaxy--"have already sworn their allegianceto the New Republic. Others have remained neutral, though not unfriendly to our cause." A sprinkling of gree appeared among the stars.

"The darkened area is what remains of the Ssi-Ruuk Imperium." She indicated a splotch covering a portion of one spiral arm. "We have not yet fully explored their worlds, though it has been seven years since Imperial and Alliance forces joined hands at Bakura to drive out the invaders."

"Finally," Mon Mothma said, "we know of these systems that remain loyal to the fallen Empire." A much smaller splash of red dusted the image, concentrated primarily toward the galactic core, from which the resurrected Emperor had launched his forces. "As you can see, your support is dwindling rapidly."

Finally, with the depleted state of the galaxy as a whole after six years of near-constant total warfare and in the aftermath of two years of devestating waves of offensives and counteroffensives after the fact each time by the New Republic AND if their borders were so confined, it is unlikely they'd seek membership from troublesome crime-ridden planets at the edge of the galaxy such as Kessel. (Reference the map on page 167 of the Essential Chronology).

Nor would the New Republic spend funds on reestablishing the Jedi Knights and allow Master Skywalker to establish his academy at Yavin if they felt they had to much at stake to concern themselves defending something so far away. Keep in mind, Yavin is between the Imperial-held Meridian and Antimeridian Sectors and the major Imperial base/shipyard at Yaga Minor at this point. (Reference, map on page 167 again)

Nor would they end up in dangerous skirmishes over the Imperial-occupied Meridian and Antimeridan Sectors in the Outer Rim on the edge of the Empire proper's territory. (Reference, map on page 167 again)

Nor would they embark in militaristic nation-building on politically unstable Adumar deeply in the Outer Rim at the galactic disk's edge and well within the Empire's sphere of influence if they were militarily insecure or their borders were thousands of light-years away. (Reference, map before the novel in the Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand paperback)

[Sea Skimmer]

Someone needs to compile the quotes and come up with reasonable fleet values for the NR/Rebel Alliance and the Empire throughout the Galactic Civil War. I have no idea how this is going to work and the Chronology suggests the New Republic recaptured nearly all of its territory after the Empire re-imploded after Empire's End.

I think we can all live with this

http://daltonator.net/fanfics/essays/impfleet.txt

[The Dark]

I think we can all live with this

http://daltonator.net/fanfics/essays/impfleet.txt

Yeah, Marina's good. Some independent designs she's come up with for Palladium RPG's Phase World are posted at kitsune.addr.com (just add www in front, didn't want to suck off his bandwidth).

[Illuminatus Primus]

*frown* Except she's wrong about the 25,000 ISDs. Pelleaon SAID that the Empire at its height contained 25,000 ISDs.

[The Dark]

*frown* Except she's wrong about the 25,000 ISDs. Pelleaon SAID that the Empire at its height contained 25,000 ISDs.

Problem is now we have EU contradictions, so we have to look at a way to reconcile them. I think it's possible (although I don't recall the context) that Pelleaon was speaking of the offensive arm of the Imperial Navy, as opposed to the Sector Fleets, which may have actually been assigned to those sectors as opposed to the Empire proper. It requires some "creative defining" of terms, but a government like Palpatine's would do that anyway to confuse dissidents.

[Illuminatus Primus]

This underscores my point: The New Republic HAD to have an even slightly comparable force to even patrol the edges of a border half the size that is implied. The numbered Fleets of the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy must have some rationalization, as its inconcievable that that is all of the fleet resources that the New Republic actively kept standing.

[Illuminatus Primus]

*frown* Except she's wrong about the 25,000 ISDs. Pelleaon SAID that the Empire at its height contained 25,000 ISDs.

Problem is now we have EU contradictions, so we have to look at a way to reconcile them. I think it's possible (although I don't recall the context) that Pelleaon was speaking of the offensive arm of the Imperial Navy, as opposed to the Sector Fleets, which may have actually been assigned to those sectors as opposed to the Empire proper. It requires some "creative defining" of terms, but a government like Palpatine's would do that anyway to confuse dissidents.

We're going to have to do some creative interpretation and imaginative conceptualization of the post-Empire's End New Republic to make the Fleet counts/Member counts make sense in comparison to this data and circumstancial evidence from the other EU.

Hmmm....a realistic military/political historical account of the fictional Galactic Civil War....a website concept I'm going to have to look into.

[Publius]

The speed with which the Empire crumbled was amazing, surpassing the mass confusion that occurred following the Battle of Endor.

Of course, one must recognise immediately that the territorial decline of the Galactic Empire is not synonymous with the territorial expansion of the New Republic. The Dark Empire Sourcebook describes the increasing balkanisation of the galaxy in the post-Endor period; this, combined with the rogue warlordism that characterises the interregnum and post-Palpatine era provides ample alternatives to the Galactic Empire and the New Republic.

E.g., the Dawferm Selfhood States and the Botor Enclave are mutual protection federations, completely independent of the two great powers. Lianna, home of Santhe/Sienar Technologies, instituted home rule and was granted a charter of secession from the Empire; the Corporate Sector declared neutrality.

Some warlord states grew to be fairly large; the Pentastar Alignment encompassed large sections of the Outer Rim Territories, and the Rebellion Era Sourcebook states that the Warlord Zsinj's holdings (of which the Quelii sector formed the core) encompassed one-third of the galaxy.

To wit, it is possible for the Galactic Empire to have lost territory that did not revert to the New Republic. To argue that the Empire's accelerated decline must have accelerated the Republic's growth is an argument non sequitur.

Circumstancial Evidence Here: The New Republic maintained the yards and resources to continue refitting and to crew the Executor -class Commandship Lusankya.

The Duskhan League also maintained sufficient support resources to maintain, equip, and crew three such warships; however, per explicit statements in Before the Storm (p. 69), the Duskhan League included eleven populated worlds (and an undetermined number of unpopulated worlds) in the Koornacht Cluster.

Whilst it does indeed provide some measure of implicit evidence as to the size and scope of the New Republic at the time, that information is very vague, and establishes only an undetermined lower limit.

Circumstancial Evidence Here: The New Republic maintained the fleet resources, organization, and size to launch counteroffensives against Imperial positions and shipyards (laying siege to them as written later in the comic). Troopships casualling roundezvoused with fighter groups in deep space were carrying one hundred thousand New Republic Army troops and heavy armor and supplies for ground assualt. Heavy ground assualt and "sieges" of Imperial worlds likely would involve the use of ships to blockade shielded planets. Attempted New Republic offensives all the way to Byss is suggested. This indicates that if these sieges were feasable, that the New Republic's military itself was too large to affectively counter with this weapon, as the Imperial High Command instead chose to pick off ships as a show of force to New Republic member worlds in hope of depriving them of support and resources. The New Republic was hardly reduced to pre-Endor levels here, however their leadership was highly vulnerable to being picked off all at once by this weapon, and thus the New Republic High Command and government-in-exile was forced to hide in a Rebellion-style fashion. They were still fighting a traditional war with the Empire.

As of immediately after Dark Empire, the New Republic maintained possession of approximately one-half the galaxy, as stated in Ch. 5 (p. 73) of the Dark Empire Sourcebook; Brigadier Colin Darkmere, Intelligence Operations Command, stated (p. 114) in a memorandum to the Provisional Council that "militarily, we still hold the winning hand."

The Republic's territorial possessions as of that time were as follows:

Currently, the New Republic has a stable hold on many of the worlds in the Expansion Region, the Colonies Region and several other key regions of the galaxy. It also has control of many less vital regions (less vital in that they are not key to the overall strategy of maintaining control of the galaxy; many of these regions do make substantial contributions of raw materials, soldiers and other important supplies). Unable to hold onto Coruscant, the Rebel Alliance has made strategic withdrawals to their current comamnd base in the Da Soocha system.

In contrast, the Empire's possessions:

The Empire has regained the Core Worlds, and still holds the Deep Galactic Core, as well as many high industry regions beyond the Core Worlds. It seemed that the Imperail Coalition was dispersed -- while it held Coruscant, the former capital wasn't used as the prime base of operations.

The Empire supplies its fleet sfrom power bases in the Mid-Rim and the reclaimed Inner Rim, where the industrial planets depend on wartime economies to survive. However, the most significant Imperial victory occurred when the Empire retook the Core Worlds, linking Imperial holdings all the way to Wild Space. Once control of these vital planets was ensured, the Empire began bulwarking them against further attack.

Note that many worlds had already been converted into the so-called Fortress Worlds immediately prior to the Imperial Civil War; although the New Republic launched campaigns against Imperial supply ports and shipyards, it would be another six years until the New Republic had the ability to overwhelm the defences of Imperial-held Fortress Worlds.

To wit, the New Republic did not have the capacity at this time to lay siege to and take possession of a properly-defended Imperial-held world; nor did it have the ability to do so until the Fifth Fleet was made operational following Operation Hammerblow.

Operation Shadow Hand continued after the Emperor's death, under Sedriss's direction; according (p. 94) to The Essential Chronology:

Executor Sedriss consolidated the forces remaining in the newly subjugated Core and Colonies regions. First, he targeted the weapons factories on Balmorra, which had turned against Imperial domination.

By the time of Dark Empire II, the Empire had already seized control of one of the regions under the New Republic's control; given that the Republic withdrew its forces from Coruscant, it is likely that the Republic withdrew its forces from the Colonies, as well.

The Essential Chronology continues to state (p. 95):

Realizing the seriousness of this new threat, New Republic commando and sabotage teams attacked the Galaxy Gun, but were uanble to destroy it. The Emperor continued to launch his deadly projectiles, destroying unruly worlds and bringing the resistance to its knees. Within a short time, Palpatine regained key territories in the Inner and Outer Rim.

In Empire's End, Nist states that the Galaxy Gun has only been fired four times -- this statement being made after the destruction of the Pelagia, and necessarily after the destruction of Da Soocha V. It would appear, then, that the destruction of two "unruly worlds" was perfectly sufficient to pacify significant portions of Republic-held territory, as the only strategically significant area not known to have been seized by that time was the Expansion Region.

One should further note, of course, that the Outer Rim was already submitting to Imperial suzerainty by the time that the actions narrated in the prologue -- the attacks on supply ports and shipyards -- were being undertaken by the Republic.

As mentioned earlier, it is likely that the Republic withdrew from regions it could no longer hold. This would suggest that whilst the Republic had the fleet resources to launch counteroffensive strikes (which would appear to be fairly strategically ineffective), it most probably did not have the infrastructure to maintain those resources for long.

By the time of Empire's End, the Republic had effectively lost control of the Core Worlds, the Colonies, the Inner Rim, and at least part of the Mid-Rim and the Outer Rim; these are merely those details that are known. In Empire's End, Mothma ordered the fleet to disperse.

Therein lay the true measure of the strategic impotence of the New Republic by the end of Operation Shadow Hand: The Republic had ceased to co-ordinate naval actions. A single communications ship was the link between forces; without co-ordination, any significant military or naval operation would be inconceivable.

Even if the Republic retained a significant overall military and naval service, the fact that it was no longer able to fight a conventional war would be psychologically damning. The New Republic Defence Forces exist to provide for the common defence; what good is a Republic that cannot defend its members -- or cannot even defend its own forces, that must disperse itself for fear of destruction?

The New Republic counteroffensives following the Emperor's final destruction appear to have weakened the extra-Deep Core territories (which dwarf the Imperial remnant with 200 ISDs later on) to the point where a private fleet is able to rout the Imperial head-of-state's forces and sieze the capital, forcing a settlement. To a business leader. And the business fleet could not have been overly large. With the exception of the distant Imperial client state known as the Corperate Sector Authority, the largest private fleet we ever see that Palpatine allows in the civilized regions of the galaxy is Xizor's pathetic fleet containing nothing larger then a frigate.

In Shadows of the Empire (comic adaptation), the Emperor himself states explicitly that the Prince Xizor "controls the largest merchant fleet in the galaxy," and instructs Vader to make shipping arrangements with him for the Death Star project at Endor. If the largest transport available to Xizor Transport Systems were no larger than a frigate, the XTS fleet must have been quite large in order to provide any meaningful transport to the Death Star project.

Secondly, in some of the Marvel Comics stories, the Lord Tagge was seen to have used a Tagge Company mining explorer as his personal flagshp; Dr Saxton states on his page that the mining explorer was nearly the size of a standard Imperial Star Destroyer.

Thirdly, in Crimson Empire II, Carivus angrily demands an explanation from an admiral as to why d'Asta's attack has not been "dealt with"; the admiral responds "I'm doing my best, Your Majesty. But d'Asta has assembled his entire armada -- while our fleets have been scattered across the galaxy, searching for Kir Kanos!"

Earlier in the same issue, the same officer had a conversation with Carivus, in which he stated that d'Asta commands the largest privately owned fleet in the galaxy; Carivus asked nonchalantly if he commanded as many ships as the Empire, to which the admiral responded "Well, no... but we're already at war with the New Republic. And with the trouble the Whiphids are raising...", whereupon Carivus stopped paying attention.

One should note that a privately owned fleet is not the same thing as a merchant fleet. Furthermore, the primary reason that d'Asta's attack on Ord Cantrell was successful was due to gross mismanagement of the Empire's naval resources by Carivus, conceivably the single most incompetent leader in Imperial history. Carivus issued orders literally scattering the entire fleet to search for a single man, while the Empire was already at war, and provoked the Lord d'Asta into attacking the capital -- the capital which had no more than a token defence force.

(On a more humourous note, one must wonder if perhaps Xandel Carivus studied naval strategy at the United Federation Starfleet Academy; he proved to be quite adept at self-delusion, losing sight of what navies are for, and even employed the classic Starfleet home defence plan -- leaving one's capital virtually undefended.)

Circumstancial Evidence: They say the New Republic's been reduced to "less than half" the galaxy.

As already mentioned, the New Republic held approximately one-half of the galaxy as of the Dark Empire Sourcebook. It then promptly lost control of an entire galactic region, as well as strategic portions of the Outer Rim.

Finally, with the depleted state of the galaxy as a whole after six years of near-constant total warfare and in the aftermath of two years of devestating waves of offensives and counteroffensives after the fact each time by the New Republic AND if their borders were so confined, it is unlikely they'd seek membership from troublesome crime-ridden planets at the edge of the galaxy such as Kessel. (Reference the map on page 167 of the Essential Chronology).

Nor would the New Republic spend funds on reestablishing the Jedi Knights and allow Master Skywalker to establish his academy at Yavin if they felt they had to much at stake to concern themselves defending something so far away. Keep in mind, Yavin is between the Imperial-held Meridian and Antimeridian Sectors and the major Imperial base/shipyard at Yaga Minor at this point. (Reference, map on page 167 again)

Nor would they end up in dangerous skirmishes over the Imperial-occupied Meridian and Antimeridan Sectors in the Outer Rim on the edge of the Empire proper's territory. (Reference, map on page 167 again)

Nor would they embark in militaristic nation-building on politically unstable Adumar deeply in the Outer Rim at the galactic disk's edge and well within the Empire's sphere of influence if they were militarily insecure or their borders were thousands of light-years away. (Reference, map before the novel in the Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand paperback)

Antemeridian sector was held by an Imperialist warlord; Meridian sector was Republic-held space.

The point, however, stands: Why does the New Republic's behaviour fail to match its diminutive size as of the Black Fleet Crisis?

In the first place, Mothma's comments in Jedi Search suggest that whilst a large portion of the galaxy is not under the direct adminstrative control of the New Republic, they maintain amicable relations with it. It may even be so much as recognition of a nominal suzerainty, such as that offered to the Imperial remnants by Moff Getelles of Antemeridian sector.

Perhaps the Republic has signed treaties of peace and friendship with the numerous non-allied states; perhaps it has a large number of protectorates under its authority, which Organa Solo did not think to mention to Nil Spaar. Strictly speaking, a protectorate remains a sovereign power, and not part of the territory of the protector.

However, the question of patrolling borders is partially answered by implications of Specter of the Past and Vision of the Future; it is fairly unlikely that the New Republic patrolled its borders routinely. Rather, it is more likely that the New Republic patrolled its more sensitive borders, leaving the maintenance of border integrity to its several members, except when asked to provide assistance.

Publius

[His Divine Shadow]

The Republic maintained just under a quarter of their territory at their lowest point, IMHO. And that's conservative in my opinion.

Well, it's just an opinion, as a matter of fact we have an official and actual figure from Before the Storm.
Ofcourse, it meant member worlds so I suppose we can bolster the number of planets by to a 100k or something.

*snip*

Soo, where does this contradict the low-fleet numbers in the Black Fleet Crisis?
Also keep in mind NR fleet + member worlds own fleets from which the NR can draw resources if it wants.

I don't really see anything contradictory here, and lets face it, the figures are pretty much facts, whats the point?

[Illuminatus Primus]

No point. You asked me where it suggested/implied that the New Republic isn't quite so completely pathetic as your first page calcs implied. I supplied said sources. I never implied your figures were factually wrong, I merely answered your request.

The point, however, stands: Why does the New Republic's behaviour fail to match its diminutive size as of the Black Fleet Crisis?

That was my main point with the provided exerpts. Your calcs are self-consistent and correct, but there was a curious issue with its behavior and politics.

In the first place, Mothma's comments in Jedi Search suggest that whilst a large portion of the galaxy is not under the direct adminstrative control of the New Republic, they maintain amicable relations with it. It may even be so much as recognition of a nominal suzerainty, such as that offered to the Imperial remnants by Moff Getelles of Antemeridian sector.

Perhaps the Republic has signed treaties of peace and friendship with the numerous non-allied states; perhaps it has a large number of protectorates under its authority, which Organa Solo did not think to mention to Nil Spaar. Strictly speaking, a protectorate remains a sovereign power, and not part of the territory of the protector.

However, the question of patrolling borders is partially answered by implications of Specter of the Past and Vision of the Future; it is fairly unlikely that the New Republic patrolled its borders routinely. Rather, it is more likely that the New Republic patrolled its more sensitive borders, leaving the maintenance of border integrity to its several members, except when asked to provide assistance.

As good an explanation as any.

[Sea Skimmer]

*frown* Except she's wrong about the 25,000 ISDs. Pelleaon SAID that the Empire at its height contained 25,000 ISDs.

No acutally he thought FLEET, not Empire. He never says anything about it.

[Sea Skimmer]

*frown* Except she's wrong about the 25,000 ISDs. Pelleaon SAID that the Empire at its height contained 25,000 ISDs.

No you are the one who is wrong.

Two hundred Star Destroyers remaining from a fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them

And these where his thoughts, not his speach.

[Sea Skimmer]

Stupid board. Doesn’t show the post after two refreshes but then after I make another post it decides t o finally do so. Someone please delete my first post.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Point conceded.

[Ender]

Something to remember is that while the republic has less ships, the ships it does have are much more powerful.

I would rationalize the actions in the DE series as such:

The massed Imperial fleet with the Byss reserves drove the rebels out of the core and then attacked several key worlds IE Mon Calmari. The loss of this key territory and massive retreats cause numerous sectors to go rogue and either marginally align with the Empire, such as Balmora, and the others to turn into "fortress worlds". With the Galaxy gun, the defenses those fortress worlds had errected were rendered useless, causing most to capitulate. The Republic also chose to consolidate its fleets leaving most worlds undefended. In this manner they could launch offensive strikes still, fitting with the comment about them still having the upper hand. It works when you remember the Imperial Civil War was even more devestating then any other time during the Galactic Civil War. When the Galaxy Gun takes out Byss, hte huge reserve fleet in orbit around it was wiped out as well. Then the Empire reverted back into Warlordism once more. The Warlord fleets, signifigantly weakened, where beaten back by the concentrated Republic fleets, so the Imperial Remnant was back inot that slice while the Warlords tookup most of the outer rim and the republic had retaken the Core and Colonies and what not. And most of the worlds are still independent, which fits with what we see in HoT series and BFC.