Why did Amidala oppose the....

pecker · Post by **pecker** » 2002-11-14 08:14pm

Durran Korr wrote:
pecker wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Just seems likely that economically depressed systems (surely they exist, in a galaxy so vast) would be attracted to the Separatist movement.
Not saying they don't exist, just saying they didn't seem like a major factor. A depressed planet adds nothing but fluff to the Separatists (Look at how many systems we have!). No military and little strategic value (If they were major hubs or close to major palnets, I doubt they'd be too backwater).
But they might gain sympathy for the Separatists; make the Republic look bad for attacking poor depressed systems.

Maybe. But I doubt Palpatine or the Republic would order attacks on unarmed Separatist systems. Of course, they may send a fleet to 'liberate' a few systems, but it'd all be propoganda.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-14 08:38pm

Durran Korr wrote:Just seems likely that economically depressed systems (surely they exist, in a galaxy so vast) would be attracted to the Separatist movement.

Why? Wouldn't be a small seperate power the galaxy doesn't like be worse? Especially when a founding member is the Trade Federation?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-14 11:20pm

Durran Korr wrote:The Separatists don't want the government gone, they just want out of it. If they wanted it gone they would be Rebels, not separatists.

No, they wanted it gone in their part of space. Rebels want it gone everywhere.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-14 11:21pm

Durran Korr wrote:Just seems likely that economically depressed systems (surely they exist, in a galaxy so vast) would be attracted to the Separatist movement.

They are the ones that largely make it up. Saxton mentioned a chunk about them getting cut from ICS in the interview on TFN. Hopefully this bit will be included in his version of Inside the Worlds.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-14 11:23pm

Ender wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:The Separatists don't want the government gone, they just want out of it. If they wanted it gone they would be Rebels, not separatists.
No, they wanted it gone in their part of space. Rebels want it gone everywhere.

How is that not exactly what I said? I know it's exactly what I meant.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-15 12:56am

The Separatists were a bunch of assholes. They were the corporations that we all hate today. They could have taken non-violent steps with their vast resources into reforming the goverment of the Republic. Instead of spending all of their money making the largest military force in the galaxy, they could have lobbied for their causes and actually make a difference in the Republic. But no, they had to secede from the Republic, build the galaxy's most powerful military force, build a Death Star, and plot to overthrow the entire Republic. Oh, but wait...who's really controlling them? Palpatine. This just goes to show how much of an asshole Palpatine really is. He makes the single most powerful military force in the galaxy and then raises a grand clone army to counter it, like they are a whole bunch of toys in a giant game designed to amuse him and assure he wins either way. He's a real hero.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-15 12:58am

I'm adding more to this. Instead of waging galactic war, he could have taken all of the resources he wasted and reformed the Republic to make a decent form of government once again if he cared a damn about anything.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-15 01:00am

IIRC, the business interests that we saw on Geonosis were not exactly corporations; they were originally government entities that broke away, according to the USWE which I've found is a fairly accurate and trustable source.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-15 01:01am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I'm adding more to this. Instead of waging galactic war, he could have taken all of the resources he wasted and reformed the Republic to make a decent form of government once again if he cared a damn about anything.

God, finally, someone who agrees with me on Palpatine.

Also, A Jedi am I. w00t.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 01:05am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I'm adding more to this. Instead of waging galactic war, he could have taken all of the resources he wasted and reformed the Republic to make a decent form of government once again if he cared a damn about anything.

But, he's evil. He wanted to take control of the government. So he played both sides against the middle. He helped create the threat to the government, the Separatist army, and he set it up so he would be able to take control to counter it with his army, the clone army. Afterwards he would still have some type of army and could then consolidate his control.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-15 01:12am

Padme appeared to be an idealist, who did not see the necessity of building a clone army and found it morally reprehensible. The moral issues of constructing a clone army are complex, but were likely a point of contention for both sides during the debate.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-15 01:13am

"Some type of army"?? Jesus, talk about understatement! I realize he was evil. There are many pro-Empire people on this message board that try to justify why Palpatine took control and formed the Empire and claim that the Empire isn't evil. Well I am purely against this thinking. It's just plain wrong. This is why I feel the need to explore new and different ways the Republic could have been reformed or even abolished without having to wage galactic war, exterminate all Jedi in a genocide, destroy an entire planet (minimum is one so far), torture prisoners, enslave entire races, take away all of the people's voice in government, gear the entire economy towards war, establish a Sith Lord regime, and countless other horrible atrocities that Palpatine brought about with his infinite craving for power and endless practice of sadism.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-15 01:30am

Ah yes, how could I forget? The Empire is also evil because it is racist, sexist, and xenophobic.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 01:34am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:"Some type of army"?? Jesus, talk about understatement! I realize he was evil. There are many pro-Empire people on this message board that try to justify why Palpatine took control and formed the Empire and claim that the Empire isn't evil. Well I am purely against this thinking. It's just plain wrong. This is why I feel the need to explore new and different ways the Republic could have been reformed or even abolished without having to wage galactic war, exterminate all Jedi in a genocide, destroy an entire planet (minimum is one so far), torture prisoners, enslave entire races, take away all of the people's voice in government, gear the entire economy towards war, establish a Sith Lord regime, and countless other horrible atrocities that Palpatine brought about with his infinite craving for power and endless practice of sadism.

Exactly. He didn't to anything to try to reform because his ultimate goal was to run the whole damn thing himself. Oh, and by some type of army I meant that the makeup could have been purely droid, clone, or a mix. Probably a mix in my opinion.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-15 01:35am

Ah, I see.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-15 12:48pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:"Some type of army"?? Jesus, talk about understatement! I realize he was evil. There are many pro-Empire people on this message board that try to justify why Palpatine took control and formed the Empire and claim that the Empire isn't evil. Well I am purely against this thinking. It's just plain wrong. This is why I feel the need to explore new and different ways the Republic could have been reformed or even abolished without having to wage galactic war, exterminate all Jedi in a genocide, destroy an entire planet (minimum is one so far), torture prisoners, enslave entire races, take away all of the people's voice in government, gear the entire economy towards war, establish a Sith Lord regime, and countless other horrible atrocities that Palpatine brought about with his infinite craving for power and endless practice of sadism.

Not to mention the fact that GL chose to use the phrase "evil galactic Empire." But it's all OK, since the Empire was for stability and Imperial warfare technology was cool.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-15 12:59pm

well, the seperatists were caused by Palpatine to destapilize the OR, IMO. and they cauzed the clone army! so the whole conflict was just a plan to destabilize the OR!(am i right)

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-15 01:04pm

Lex wrote:well, the seperatists were caused by Palpatine to destapilize the OR, IMO. and they cauzed the clone army! so the whole conflict was just a plan to destabilize the OR!(am i right)

I think it was more of a failure by the Jedi to find and neutralize the Sith Menace. Had the Jedi been more vigilant they could have taken care of the Sith Order once and for all and made Palpatine into nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Republic.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 01:11pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Lex wrote:well, the seperatists were caused by Palpatine to destapilize the OR, IMO. and they cauzed the clone army! so the whole conflict was just a plan to destabilize the OR!(am i right)
I think it was more of a failure by the Jedi to find and neutralize the Sith Menace. Had the Jedi been more vigilant they could have taken care of the Sith Order once and for all and made Palpatine into nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Republic.

True. What I wonder is how come Yoda, Mace, or any of the other Jedi couldn't at least sense something was amiss when they fucking stand next to Palpatine. Even Vader can go on about the Force being strong in some guy who is in another fighter. Is Palpatine that damn powerful?

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2002-11-15 01:13pm

i wondered about that too...maybe he concentrated hsi powers on hidding, like yoda managed to hide on Dagobah, or Obi-Wan at Tatoine

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-15 01:17pm

neoolong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:
Lex wrote:well, the seperatists were caused by Palpatine to destapilize the OR, IMO. and they cauzed the clone army! so the whole conflict was just a plan to destabilize the OR!(am i right)
I think it was more of a failure by the Jedi to find and neutralize the Sith Menace. Had the Jedi been more vigilant they could have taken care of the Sith Order once and for all and made Palpatine into nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Republic.
True. What I wonder is how come Yoda, Mace, or any of the other Jedi couldn't at least sense something was amiss when they fucking stand next to Palpatine. Even Vader can go on about the Force being strong in some guy who is in another fighter. Is Palpatine that damn powerful?

No, I think it's because the Jedi were too overconfident; look at the scene in which they refused to take Amidala's ultimately correct advice and investigate Count Dooku's actions; they missed what would have been a great opportunity for refusing to act on a perfectly reasonable suspicion.