Jedi Power Ranking

[Rommie2006]

If the ability to kill/kick-ass is superior to raw power, then:

Palpatine outranks Mace Windu. Palpy's still around, Mace ain't.

Cant be concluded just yet. We have to find out how Mace died in ep III. If Palpy slayed Mace. I agree. If not, its questionable. Palpy might be alive cos he's smarter and more cunning and manipulative.

Palpatine outranks or ties with Darth Vader; while Vader did toss him down the power shaft, Palpatine was slow-cooking Luke and did enough damage to fry Vader's circuitry (he had more or less recovered after being beat down by Luke ... but couldn't breathe and couldn't stand after Palpatine used him as a walking ground-fault-interrupt).

Outrank perhaps. Tie? I don't think so. I think Vader is pretty weak on the Jedi Power scale. Any standard Old Republic Jedi would have bested him. He's immobile like a rock and slow like a tortoise. His armor is his saving grace, but come on how many slices can take.

Anakin outranks Vader; it is theorized that the amassing of cybernetic parts greatly inhibited Vader's Force ability. On the other hand, as Martin Caidin suggested in Cyborg (the novel on which Six Million Dollar Man was based), the reduction in limbs could make the remaining midichlorian count/ratio that much greater, as Austin's cardiovascular system indirectly gained from not having to power two legs and an arm.

Agreed. Though we'll have to wait for ep III to really confirm.

Obi-Wan (Ep. III) outranks Anakin (Ep. III); UNLESS Anakin chooses to fall into the lava. Lucas is awfully fond of parallels, and having Ben give Anakin the same, 'come with me!' offer that Vader gives Luke would fit right in.

That would be my first analysis. But then how would you explain that Obi got his butt kicked by Dooku (and mind you in the ep II dooku was just toying with Obi). However, anakin amanged to injure Dooku (according to the original script intended that was cut short due to lucas 2hr fetish.)

Ok I know alot of pple is going to contest the issue of anakin injuring dooku that was cut from the movie, but if you observe dooku duels with obi and anakin, you can clearly see that obi is having a real hard time keeping up (observe his moves, his grunts, heavy panting, etc.), and contrast this with anakin fight where he hardly flinch. He lost a saber and a hand, but I attribute that to pure brattish cockyness (which I hope will be rectified in ep III to a serious evil no-nonsense dark jedi!!!) Also, the movie transcripts also describe the anakin as winning the duel with dooku for a time.


Ok frankly speaking, there seems to be alot of inconsistencies with Jedi power strength throughout the SW movies.

[Crown]

Ok frankly speaking, there seems to be alot of inconsistencies with Jedi power strength throughout the SW movies.

Of course there is, IIRC it was Sansweet who answered a question about TPM in the 'ask the Jedi Council' part of the official website; where he was asked why didn't Obi-Wan use Jedi superspeed to catch up to Maul and Qui-Gon like he did at the start of the movie? The answer was that Jedi or not, he is still human and was tired by that time.

He also used the example of a sports team; Brazil is clearly the best team in the world of football, and yet event they can have one bad day and lose to a team that realistically has no chance of ever beating them.

[Kurgan]

Just curious, has anyone attempted to rank all the Jedi & Sith according to how "powerful" they are?

Yes, but such a list would not be canon, and should be taken with a heavy dose of salt.

Our buddy Super Shadow made a couple (including lots of characters he made up himself), which can be viewed on his site.

[Kurgan]

Depends how you interpret unit. It could be individual clone, or it could be army-division.

Riight, I heard about that. Has there been anything about this in the EU or from Lucas?

I think there's a book quote that reinforces the units as 1 unit = 1 trooper (Shatterpoint?) where Mace muses that they don't have enough troops to put one clone trooper on each planet of the Republic. EU minimalism rears its ugly head I guess.

IIRC, the AOTC novelisation leads to that conclusion as well.


As far as using un-filmed script ideas, then we have to also consider that Yoda basically defeated Dooku and was about to kill him (as Dooku was earlier about to kill Obi-Wan until Anakin got in the way). Dooku only "got away" because he desperately pulled the huge pillar to crush Obi-Wan & Anakin to distract Yoda.

But I'd take what was actually shown on screen over some alternate view portrayed in the novel or early screenplay.

[Nick Lancaster]

Ok I know alot of pple is going to contest the issue of anakin injuring dooku that was cut from the movie, but if you observe dooku duels with obi and anakin, you can clearly see that obi is having a real hard time keeping up (observe his moves, his grunts, heavy panting, etc.), and contrast this with anakin fight where he hardly flinch. He lost a saber and a hand, but I attribute that to pure brattish cockyness (which I hope will be rectified in ep III to a serious evil no-nonsense dark jedi!!!) Also, the movie transcripts also describe the anakin as winning the duel with dooku for a time.

I wonder if that can also be explained via 'fighting styles' - there was an issue of Star Wars Insider (just prior to the recent reorganization of the whole Star Wars Fan Club deal) that defined seven fighting styles - I believe those are also incorporated into the D20 ruleset.

Yet Obi-Wan's chosen style is supposed to be fluid and graceful, designed to deflect blaster fire ... and Mace Windu is the one with the batter-your-opponent-to-pieces approach.

[Rommie2006]

From what I know about saber styles (correct me if I am wrong)

Form 1 - Your standard basic styles. Nobody uses them after "graduation".
Form 2 - Ancient style frequently used by the Sith. Analogous to fencing. So one who master this style is essential very specialised and very good in one vs one saber battles. Only Dooku uses it to date (maybe Palpy too?)
Form 3 -Defense style. Specialised in defence and deflecting blaster bolts. Used widely by alot of Jedi by Old Republic times, since the Sith were effectively gone. Obi-wan used this in AOTC onwards.
Form 4 - Aggressive style. Characterised by aggressive heavy swings. Focuses more on attack than defense. Vader uses this style I think.
Form 5 - Acrobatic style. Places high emphasis on acrobatics and cool Jedi moves to execute well placed slashes. Used by Yoda, Qui-Gon and Obi-wan(in TPM). Unfortunately, these style really wears the Jedi down in prolonged battles that's y Obi switched to Form 3.
Form 6 - Diplomats style. Some sort of wussy style used by Jedi diplomats. Used ceremonially only, and it is extremely weak. Also widely used by Jedi in the Old Republic (this help explains why so many got slaughtered in AOTC).
Form 7 - Some weird aggressive style. Used my Mace and his discplines(all of who have turned to the dark side). Emphasis on swift and aggressive killer moves. Style is closely related to the dark side, so jedi must have self control.

Unfortunately, the styles have not been ranked, but I think they should be in order

Form 2 = Form 7 > Form 3 = Form 5 = Form 4 > Form 1 = Form 6

[Stark]

Style should have nothing to do with it. If one style is 'weaker' than another, then its shit and noone should ever use it. Two fighters with equal skill in different forms should NOT have a predetermined outcome, as your table suggests. Is an Aikido fighter 'weaker' than a Jui-jitsu fighter, because they are defensive? Of course not.

[Petrosjko]

Form Seven, Vaapaad, has actually only been mastered by two Jedi to date, Mace himself and his former padawan Depa Billaba. Depa didn't so much fall to the Dark Side as she went batshit insane while dealing with the natives of Mace's homeworld, leading an 'insurrection' against CIS forces.

Sora Bulq is a Dark Jedi who taught lightsaber technique at the Temple and learned elements of Vaapaad, but never achieved mastery.

It's rarely used or taught because it does tread on the dark side, which probably refers more to the mystical force dueling elements of lightsaber fighting rather than the straightforward hack and slash we see on screen.

[Rommie2006]

Style should have nothing to do with it. If one style is 'weaker' than another, then its shit and noone should ever use it. Two fighters with equal skill in different forms should NOT have a predetermined outcome, as your table suggests. Is an Aikido fighter 'weaker' than a Jui-jitsu fighter, because they are defensive? Of course not.

Not true. Given two jedi of equal skill in two different styles, the stronger style tends to win. This is especially true for Form 2, because it was designed for Jedi vs Jedi combat. Form 6 and 1 is also exceptionally weak. Form 1 is your basic style. And Form 6 is diplomat's style. Why you think they called it "diplomat"? The rest I'm just doing guess work, but I believe form 3, 4 and 5 should be in the middle. I placed Form 7 at the top cos I think it was what that made Windu great.

[Cykeisme]

Style should have nothing to do with it. If one style is 'weaker' than another, then its shit and noone should ever use it. Two fighters with equal skill in different forms should NOT have a predetermined outcome, as your table suggests. Is an Aikido fighter 'weaker' than a Jui-jitsu fighter, because they are defensive? Of course not.

That isn't so; some styles may perhaps indeed be superior to others. This is real life, and there isn't a rule saying that, for fairness' sake, all styles or forms of martial arts should be equal.

The Jedi had grown soft due to a great length of time that was lacking in conflict with other lightsaber-wielding, Force-powered opponents, so it's conceivable that the average Jedi's ability to saber duel had lost its potency.

To be fair, judging by Rommie2006' descriptions, a Force user that has become accustomed to Form 3 is probably the most adept at deflecting blaster bolts. In a galaxy where the Jedi thought (wrongly) that there were no longer any Dark Force users, it's not unconceivable that many (but not all- especially the older Jedi) in the Jedi Order would teach and learn this style, since blasters are the biggest threat they might face.