Sand People

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-04 09:30pm

Aaron Ash wrote:Lets not forget one of the EU books credits Tusken Raiders with the ability to spray a stream of blood at their prey .

They don't do that personally, that is a mechanical contraption that is built into some of their helmets. I believe it is ICS:II.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-04 10:59pm

Aaron Ash wrote:Lets not forget one of the EU books credits Tusken Raiders with the ability to spray a stream of blood at their prey .

Where the shit did you see that?

(Oh, and I love the 'Christmas' AV and sig, Aaron!)

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-04 11:02pm

Aaron Ash wrote:Lets not forget one of the EU books credits Tusken Raiders with the ability to spray a stream of blood at their prey .

Hey love the new avatar and sig Aaron. You always have kick ass stuff.

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2002-12-05 03:09pm

Actually it's in the Episode 2 Visual Dictionary, it says:

"Many gruesome legends surround Tusken Raiders, who are even known to spit streams of blood at their victims during attacks."

This suggests that they are actually supposed to shoot the blood themselves (you never hear of machines "spitting"). Then again the Ep2 VD has quite a few nasty errors in it, like the "troop hatch" on the SPHA-T that is actually the focusing disk for the turbolaser.

And thanks for the replies about the sig, I thought it was bout time for a change.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-07 04:39am

They're the Fremen.

I bet a ship of Zensunni Wanderers got sucked through a wormhole and ended up on Tatooine.. with banthas and sarlaccs instead of worms to keep 'em company.

Well, that's my theory. ; )

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-07 05:04am

Ha. Ha.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-07 06:59pm

Kurgan wrote:They're the Fremen.

I bet a ship of Zensunni Wanderers got sucked through a wormhole and ended up on Tatooine.. with banthas and sarlaccs instead of worms to keep 'em company.

Well, that's my theory. ; )

Don't let Frank Hipper hear you say that. He has already decided that the Sand People were a rip off of the Fremen. He is quite touchy about the subject.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-07 08:48pm

Let's see..

live on desert planet: check

hated and feared by supposedly more "civilized" people: check

portrayed as being "religious" to the point of fanaticism or superstition: check

violent and warrior-like society: check

adapted to harsh environment: check

wear "suits" that suggest some kind of protection from the elements, even water reclamation (stillsuits... note how the "flesh is vulgar" invention in that Outlander comic, a nice attempt to distance it from Dune): check

kinship bond with a desert animal (banthas instead of worms): check

obsession with water (more of this appears in Outlander than in the films): check

Its not unreasonable, considering the numerous similarities between stuff in Star Wars and stuff in the Dune series (half of the six Dune books were written, after all before the Star Wars movies, and the first book even came out before Star Trek TOS aired!).

If you read some of Herbert's own thoughts on Star Wars, especially during the time when David Lynch was making his film version of the first Dune, you'll see even he recognized the "borrowing."

Next to Lord of the Rings, I'd say that Dune has probably had the biggest modern influence on sci fi/fantasy throughout the years, once you get right down to it.

Obviously, I'm not in any way dissing George Lucas for using other sources to inspire him.

Everybody knows that he used serial cliffhangers, westerns (especially Ford films like "The Searchers"), Flash Gordon, Kirosawa films (especially "the Hidden Fortress," and the "Seven Samurai"), Arthurian romances, the Bible, and eastern religious themes to help create his space opera series.

Dune is just another inspiration, and it is a testament to the infectiousness of Herbert's stories that he is honored by imitation, even today.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-12-07 09:49pm

Gee, heavens forbid that people who

live on desert planet

are

hated and feared by supposedly more "civilized" people

, have

adapted to harsh environment

,

wear "suits" that suggest some kind of protection from the elements

or have an

obsession with water

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 03:19am

Granted, but that's not always the case, see for example the Imperials stationed on Tatooine, or the moisture farmers, or the Jawas, or the Hutts, or etc. etc.

In Dune, you had a similar situation... the Harkonnens (and then Atreides), the Mentats, etc. living on the same planet as the Fremen, but not living the same harsh, violent, tribal way.

Yes, there are many parallels with the Sand People and the Native Americans in Ford's "The Searchers" but they have more in common with the Fremen of Dune. ; )

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-12-08 03:55am

Kurgan wrote:Granted, but that's not always the case, see for example the Imperials stationed on Tatooine, or the moisture farmers, or the Jawas, or the Hutts, or etc. etc.

In Dune, you had a similar situation... the Harkonnens (and then Atreides), the Mentats, etc. living on the same planet as the Fremen, but not living the same harsh, violent, tribal way.

Yes, there are many parallels with the Sand People and the Native Americans in Ford's "The Searchers" but they have more in common with the Fremen of Dune. ; )[/quote]

Because the Fremen of Dune have many parallels with Native Americans! Or any friggin' nomad/tribal-based society in the world!

Thirst -> water
Elements -> adaptation & protection
Primitive -> frowned

Geez, I hope nobody who ever thinks of having an undersea base ever copies MY idea of using air tanks.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-12-08 07:41am

Fremen disgust me.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-08 08:26am

Because they're a bunch of fundies?

I prefer the Sardau-

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh I get it *thwacks head for not getting the joke*

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-08 08:43am

Oh, yes, the Tuskan Raiders are such a rip off the Fremen. Because we all know the Tusken Raiders ride sandworms, are trying to restore Tatooine to a lush, temperate world, revolt against the Empire, and will raise the savior of all mankind.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 09:57pm

You left out my more important points, such as their religious fanatacism, and their "bond" with a certain desert animal.

Anyhow, if you honestly think George Lucas was being totally original when he made up the Sand People, that's fine, but I'm just pointing out the obvious. ; )

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 10:00pm

And indicentally, IIRC, the idea of transforming Arrakis and the messiah to come were both developments in their belief system introduced (though covertly perhaps) by outsiders.

Just give the Sand people a push in the right direction...

In Outlander, for example, that Jedi who joined their ranks was almost a messianic figure himself, despite what eventually happens to him.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-12-08 10:07pm

I've seen this stupid crap (and variations of it) at least eight-thousand times before and it's really getting to me. Star Wars did not rip off Dune. Tusken Raiders aren't Fremen. It's just one of many themes that seem to have interested humans thoughout time, that is present is many fictional works.
Oh no look out... desert people.

GET OVER IT, DUNE NERDS.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 10:20pm

Oh sure.. stories about tribal peoples living on desert planets are as old as mankind itself. ; )

Hey, George Lucas admits that he wrote Star Wars and took material freely from many other stories.

Rather than bury your head in the sand, why not consider this as one of them? Besides, its not "Dune nerds" claiming this, its Herbert himself, and he was writing award-winning sci fi before Lucas!

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-12-08 11:07pm

Kurgan wrote:Oh sure.. stories about tribal peoples living on desert planets are as old as mankind itself. ; )

Hey, George Lucas admits that he wrote Star Wars and took material freely from many other stories.

Rather than bury your head in the sand, why not consider this as one of them? Besides, its not "Dune nerds" claiming this, its Herbert himself, and he was writing award-winning sci fi before Lucas!

I'm sorry for not being open minded. You are right.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 11:24pm

Apology accepted Captain Needa. ; )

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-08 11:31pm

But honestly Sand People are almost in no way the Frememn unless they are a horrible bastardization.

I mean both use pack animals and are desert dwellers...it's akin to saying the Arab nomads.

I mean yes we can say that the whole point of making Arrakis green and free was nothing more than a wish of an outsider...but nowhere in the Tusken raiders is it written that they are organized beyond a simple tribal level, and it is written that mostly they attack Jawa and human for resources and nothing more.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 11:40pm

Given the other similarites between Star Wars and Dune, its not inconcievable that the similarities we see between the Fremen and the Sandpeople are NOT entirely coincidental.

Take a look again, and you'll see I'm right. ; )

I mean both use pack animals and are desert dwellers...it's akin to saying the Arab nomads.

Of course Arab nomads (and Native Americans) don't live on a desert planet. Perhaps they (Arab nomads) are more akin to what the Fremen were based on (a real life example).

Sort of like the how the Jedi Knights are based on the Knights and Samurai (and other warrior societies and orders) of history.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 11:44pm

I mean, we assume that the Fremen originally came from a non-desert world, since their early myths and stories harken back to a time when they were forced from their original homes (denined the Hajj, etc).

But again, the Sandpeople are more like the Fremen than the Arab nomads or Native Americans are like the Fremen. First we get Fremen, in a popular science fiction story, then we get Sandpeople, who share many similarities with them, in a later popular science fiction story. Coincidence?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-09 12:07am

Perhaps not...but it's a leap of Logic given that your saying because they both live in sand and have pack animals the later must've been dervived from the former.

I mean aside from pack animal(one that Tatoine does not consider somehow undomesticated) and desert people...what true similarties do they have?

As I said it's more akin to Arab nomads then Fremen...more because even before the messiah thought the Fremen were an organized race fighting to destroy the outside force(Harkonnen) I don't see anywhere in any Star Wars literature of anything of that level from the Tusken raiders.

They may look the same but doesn't mean they are similar aside from cursory glance.

MirrorUniverseSpy1 · Post by **MirrorUniverseSpy1** » 2002-12-09 01:58am

They are probably just petty thieves who sunburn easily, hence,
all the gear