Jr. Infinities: Grievous Survives

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 05:54pm

He can always pretend to remain to be dead, put Nute Gunray as the visible Separatist leader, and lead his toy soldiers from the shadows.

Also, that would make his plotted-out future betrayal easier.

Hell, if this actually would have worked, the third film of the alternate-original trilogy could have him returning, since the emperor might have been defeated by the second film.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-02 05:55pm

All they'd need is a hammer to pop his chestplates back into shape; Dealing with pulverised organs is a mite more difficult.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 05:57pm

Pcm979 wrote:All they'd need is a hammer to pop his chestplates back into shape; Dealing with pulverised organs is a mite more difficult.

also several of "rib" fly off (yeat none seem to be missing in ROTS)

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-02 05:59pm

Okay, a hammer and a soldering iron.

Edit: As long as we're discussing Grevious CW/RotS inconsistancies, they gave him another finger inbetween CW and RotS.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 06:00pm

Can we please focus on my ailing scenario?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 06:01pm

Pcm979 wrote:Okay, a hammer and a soldering iron.

I think I would easier just replace the plates and "ribs" with new ones

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 06:01pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Can we please focus on my ailing scenario?

no

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 06:02pm

Isn't that against

Debating Rules

Do not "hijack" threads by trying to change the subject in mid-stream. We are aware that a discussion may meander into different tangents and even different subjects without any conscious effort to make it do so. However, there are times when, in the judgement of our staff, someone has deliberately ignored or tried to change the subject of a thread.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-02 06:03pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Can we please focus on my ailing scenario?

To be blunt, it's at the flatlining stage. It's going on so many highly unlikely prerequisites that I think you need to rework it from stage 1.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 06:05pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Isn't that against

Debating Rules

Do not "hijack" threads by trying to change the subject in mid-stream. We are aware that a discussion may meander into different tangents and even different subjects without any conscious effort to make it do so. However, there are times when, in the judgement of our staff, someone has deliberately ignored or tried to change the subject of a thread.

only if we don't posting all together, after all you're scenario need some serious rewriting to workble (at the moment it basically ignores everything we know about Grievous).

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 06:09pm

Pcm979 wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Can we please focus on my ailing scenario?
To be blunt, it's at the flatlining stage. It's going on so many highly unlikely prerequisites that I think you need to rework it from stage 1.

Fair enough. My biggest problems, as far as I can tell, are:

1. Grievous being left for dead whilst not actually being dead. I explained this away as Obi-Wan being dumb again.

2. Grievous being left out of Sidious's control. I hand-waved this.

3. Grievous and Separatists contacting liberal anti-Imps. BIG PROBLEM. Would they be willing to do what's sensible? Is there an apparent anti-Empire group in the Senate?

4. The "Second Republicans" accepting the offer. Maybe they'll be forced to once the Empire declares them dead. However, Grievous will need to step down or not show himself.

5. Palpatine finds it hard to deal with the sudden influx of opponents, goes nuts, and alienates many by executing senators. BIG PROBLEM 2.

Advice?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 06:18pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Can we please focus on my ailing scenario?
To be blunt, it's at the flatlining stage. It's going on so many highly unlikely prerequisites that I think you need to rework it from stage 1.
Fair enough. My biggest problems, as far as I can tell, are:

1. Grievous being left for dead whilst not actually being dead. I explained this away as Obi-Wan being dumb again.

2. Grievous being left out of Sidious's control. I hand-waved this.

3. Grievous and Separatists contacting liberal anti-Imps. BIG PROBLEM. Would they be willing to do what's sensible? Is there an apparent anti-Empire group in the Senate?

4. The "Second Republicans" accepting the offer. Maybe they'll be forced to once the Empire declares them dead. However, Grievous will need to step down or not show himself.

5. Palpatine finds it hard to deal with the sudden influx of opponents, goes nuts, and alienates many by executing senators. BIG PROBLEM 2.

Advice?

to add
6. Grievous is nuts enough to make Gollum seem sane (though not it's not visible) and if he is able disobey Sidious, he's nothing more then a phycho with really powerfull cyborg body.

EDIT:a better premisse would that Grievous was captured instead being killed and work out from there.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-02 06:23pm

Fair enough. My biggest problems, as far as I can tell, are:

1. Grievous being left for dead whilst not actually being dead. I explained this away as Obi-Wan being dumb again.

Not really a problem; Maybe Cody takes him out while he's searching for the General's body.

2. Grievous being left out of Sidious's control. I hand-waved this.

To be fair, there's no direct proof that he's been hardwired to follow Sidious' orders. It is, however, blindingly common sense.

3. Grievous and Separatists contacting liberal anti-Imps. BIG PROBLEM. Would they be willing to do what's sensible? Is there an apparent anti-Empire group in the Senate?

A really big problem would be that by the time Grievous has woken up, the Seperatist droids will have been deactivated and their positions secured by Republic/Empire forces. Another major problem is that, even handwaving his implants away, Grevious is still a bloodthirsty monster. I'd expect him to withdraw his remaining forces to the outer rim and fight a guerilla war, personally.

4. The "Second Republicans" accepting the offer. Maybe they'll be forced to once the Empire declares them dead. However, Grievous will need to step down or not show himself.

I'm afraid I can't really see this happening for at least a couple of years after the CW ends; The anti-Imperial senators would still hope they could reform the system from within, especially with Palpy's Shocktroopers staring over their shoulders.

5. Palpatine finds it hard to deal with the sudden influx of opponents, goes nuts, and alienates many by executing senators. BIG PROBLEM 2.

Quite simply wouldn't happen.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 06:28pm

Damn. If there only capable military leaders in the CIS besides Dooku, Jango(?), the Dark Jedi lady, and Grievous...

I guess now this drifts into the realm of fanfiction. But having Grievous fight an Outer Rim guerilla war would still be cool. He'd be a bigger issue than all of the EU things like minor Jedi surviving or angry alien races (Ssi-ruuk) or the dozens of minor rebellions (planets refusing Imperial rule, renagde groups).

And the cool thing is that he's also anti-Rebel, so that makes things interesting.

I would have liked to see Nute Gunray and the Separatists as part of the Rebellion, though. That would be amusing.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-02 06:37pm

Well whole Clone Wars was just the revenge of the Sith, so it helps to have oppenent handicaped, that you can win him when needed.

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2005-07-02 06:48pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Damn. If there only capable military leaders in the CIS besides Dooku, Jango(?), the Dark Jedi lady, and Grievous...

The problem for you is that, at least based on EU materials, the Separatist leaders were deliberately chosen by Sidious and Dooku in large part because they could be easily manipulated and dominated by a stronger-willed party. Which makes perfect sense, given that the goal was really never to make the CIS a viable governing body. Also, I'll give a thumbs down on Jango as a military leader beyond the company level at most. The skill set that makes someone an excellent bounty hunter/tactician is not likely to make them a great strategist. (I've just started watching The Clone Wars cartoon, so I can't address Asajj Ventress' leadership skills.)

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-02 10:57pm

Even if his connection to Sidious was lost, would Grievous just find the Separatist Council and kill them all? Why?

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-07-03 04:59am

Maybe he'd just get contacted and recruited by the Rebel Alliance or something? Or just "disappear".

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-03 06:27am

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Even if his connection to Sidious was lost, would Grievous just find the Separatist Council and kill them all? Why?

I'd guess so, because it was only Sidious who was stopping him from executing them in the first place.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-03 02:12pm

Why does he want to kill them?

Okay, some other (probably im-) possible ways to have the Separatist remain an incredibly weak, but not yet demolished faction in ROTS:
1. Somehow, the CIS leaders do not disarm their droid armies.

2. Someone (plot contrivance character) in the CIS mistrusts Sidious, manages to convince the others to not go to Mustafar, and not to disarm the armies- just yet. Come to think of it, wouldn’t someone watching the HoloNets be able to understand that there is no peace yet?

3. What would have happened if Grievous had both survived the fall, and found out that the Republic did not bomb his shuttle? Would he report it to Sidious, or would he start to suspect something? Instead of sketching out everything, I’m just going to ask those two questions.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-07-03 02:15pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Why does he want to kill them?

they're so annoying (at least that was what was in ROTS), he probaly has other reason but he has serious impulse control problem.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-03 02:16pm

Because he's nucking futz. Remember the artificially-enhanced rage?

Specifically, he *hates* being treated like a droid. Per the VD, Dooku stopped him from killing Gunray once.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-03 02:48pm

Okay, thanks for the explanation.

Can you still evaluate these?

Okay, some other (probably im-) possible ways to have the Separatist remain an incredibly weak, but not yet demolished faction in ROTS:

1. Somehow, the CIS leaders do not disarm their droid armies.

2. Someone (plot contrivance character) in the CIS mistrusts Sidious, manages to convince the others to not go to Mustafar, and not to disarm the armies- just yet. Come to think of it, wouldn’t someone watching the HoloNets be able to understand that there is no peace yet?

3. What would have happened if Grievous had both survived the fall, and found out that the Republic did not bomb his shuttle? Would he report it to Sidious, or would he start to suspect something? Instead of sketching out everything, I’m just going to ask those two questions.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-03 03:01pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:1. Somehow, the CIS leaders do not disarm their droid armies.

'Somehow' just doesn't cut it.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:2. Someone (plot contrivance character) in the CIS mistrusts Sidious, manages to convince the others to not go to Mustafar, and not to disarm the armies- just yet. Come to think of it, wouldn’t someone watching the HoloNets be able to understand that there is no peace yet?

1. The Seperatists wouldn't dare break away from Sidious; He'd been providing them with inside information on the Republic for the entire war, and after Dooku's death is their only lifeline.

Battlehymn Republic wrote:3. What would have happened if Grievous had both survived the fall, and found out that the Republic did not bomb his shuttle? Would he report it to Sidious, or would he start to suspect something? Instead of sketching out everything, I’m just going to ask those two questions.

ASSUMING that he managed to survive the fall, find out the truth and tear back to Mustafar before Vader got there he *might* be able to evacute/kill and take over the Seperatist Council in time. However, he'd still have a newly-inaugurated Sith Lord on his tail, one he really wouldn't have a chance of beating.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2005-07-03 04:09pm

Okay, door number 3, then.

ASSUMING that he managed to survive the fall,

Okayed.

find out the truth

Toughie.

and tear back to Mustafar before Vader got there he *might* be able to evacute/kill and take over the Seperatist Council in time.

It might be expedient to keep them alive, unless he can quickly usurp control of the remaining Separatist forces. He may be psycho, but he's still a strategist.

However, he'd still have a newly-inaugurated Sith Lord on his tail, one he really wouldn't have a chance of beating.

Correction, the Separatist Council will have Vader on their collective tail, unless Grievous leaves tracks. Everyone still thinks that he's dead in this scenario. I don't think that Palpatine will think that he's the catalyst that brought the Separatist to finally escape from his clutches.