The Joiner King (spoliers possible)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-07-31 02:39am

Lord Poe wrote:Sorry, I'm still calling bullshit here. This is Trek-level fiction, where they made a fucking HORTA a crew member.

Ewoks were specifically made by Lucas to distinguish them from tech saavy Wookiees. Now there's no distinction except for their height.

As noted, that's authors intent (and AFAIK unsupported statements) and thsu outside the purview of SoD. Come on Wayne, you know better than that. Author's intent is only useful as supporting evidence - its not even strictly part of the evidence chain, particularily when its contradictory or blatantly non-SoD

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-31 03:14am

Not everything is SoD. I think the substances of the arguments here are extrinsic - this makes for shitty writing and sucks to be in SW - that kind of ilk.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-07-31 04:16am

Connor MacLeod wrote:As noted, that's authors intent (and AFAIK unsupported statements) and thsu outside the purview of SoD.

George Lucas: "I didn't make Endor a Wookiee planet because Chewbacca was sophisticated technologically and I wanted the characters involved in the battle to be primitive. That's why I used Ewoks instead."

--Star Wars Annotated Screenplays, pg. 281.

Doesn't look unsupported to me.

Come on Wayne, you know better than that. Author's intent is only useful as supporting evidence - its not even strictly part of the evidence chain, particularily when its contradictory or blatantly non-SoD

So the very existence of a character is now "supporting evidence"? This isn't a SoD issue. Would you be equally ok if a Dianoga were a General in the Imperial Remnant?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-31 04:34am

Wasn't there already an Ewok pilot in the X-wing books? Where was the bitching when that happened?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-07-31 04:40am

Would you be equally ok if a Dianoga were a General in the Imperial Remnant?

You´re equating a race that can build villages, hanggliders and catapults with monsters who live in garbage and filth? Come on, don´be such a bone-headed retard. It´s one thing to dislike the Ewoks, it´s another matter entirely to disbelieve they could ever excel in galactic society if given a chance.

Lucas wanted their culture to be primitive, not for them to be savage animals.

Tiger Ace · Post by **Tiger Ace** » 2005-07-31 04:41am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Wasn't there already an Ewok pilot in the X-wing books? Where was the bitching when that happened?

It was a joke, later used as something real when someone found a real geneticly enhanced ewok who apprently can fly shuttles.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-07-31 05:50am

Well, primitive isn't the same as stupid or retarded so i have no problem with an Ewok being able to operate high-tech.

The thing i don't understand is, why would anybody go to the trouble to modify a X-Wing for a one-meter-tall midget.

Until there are more than one such pilots ...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-07-31 06:35am

I think that I'll be staying away from these books. I'll just wait for Zahn to release Outbound Flight and I think that for me, any other contact with the EU will have to be inbetween PT and OT, unless someone posts a really, really, really amazing recommendation on any post NJO stuff.

I still remember how much money I wasted on NJO, I'm not going to be repeating that mistake again.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-07-31 06:53am

Umm...has anyone who's bitching about the damn ewok pilot actually read the book?

If not I'd like to hear from those who have. Is the ewok guy just there? Does he have some half decent back story. (Possibly linking to Zsinj and tge X-Wing books?)

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-07-31 07:15am

I've just got one question; is it true that Leia is *finally* going to start her Jedi training proper in this series

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2005-07-31 07:15am

Did they ACTUALLY have a HORTA as a Starfleet officer? That's truely pathetic... How would you get a uniform on it? How could it carry a tricorder? How could it operate systems? How could it communicate with other Federation personell? As far as I could tell, the only abilities the Horta guardian/mother creature had were the ability to tunnel through rock walls, eat redshirts, and lay silicon eggs. It was only able to communicate through Spock in a mindmeld...

Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand, the Ewoks are technologically primitive, but appear to be highly dextrous, intelligent and intuitive. The aforementioned fact that an Ewok operated a speeder bike without any training at all should be proof of their adaptibility to technology.

The only reason why I'd doubt they could operate any starfighter that came along would be their dimunitive size making it difficult or impossible for them to reach the controls. Which is not too big a problem, as the controls, seating and restraints could always be redesigned. Also, considering that there are other dimunitive races in Star Wars (like Yoda), it's certain that smaller spacecraft exist to serve them (in fact, I think we've seen such vehicles in the films a few times).

Regarding the Dianoga as an Imperial Officer question, that raises an interesting possibility...how do we know the Dianoga depicted in ANH wasn't an Imperial security officer charged with protecting the garbage compactor?

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2005-07-31 07:28am

RThurmont wrote:Also, considering that there are other dimunitive races in Star Wars (like Yoda), it's certain that smaller spacecraft exist to serve them (in fact, I think we've seen such vehicles in the films a few times).

While not shown onscreen to my knowledge, the Utapaun Porax-38 is an example of such a craft. The cockpit is a snug fit for the diminutive Utai pilots. Another example, I think, would be the Geonosian starfighters.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2005-07-31 11:33am

Who gives a shit about some Ewok pilot? What is the book about?

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-07-31 12:27pm

I really don't think an Ewok in an X-Wing cockpit is that much of a stretch. Given the massive number of species in the galaxy in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, not all of whom are within a head or two of human height, mass produced fighter craft would almost certainly be designed to have their controls and accomidations quickly and painlessly modified to suit the largest possible number of different species to maximize profits. Afterall, humans and near-humans don't have a monopoly on the desire to blow stuff up in as economical way possible - i.e. using craft easily and cheaply procured and maintained.

Considering the New Republic was never as homogenous as the Imperial military in its recruiting, being able to stick anything that could conceivably fit in the cockpit of an X-Wing with minimal modification is a major selling point and strategic gain.

The Horta was in a book not the show and I vaguely recall it having special gear that allowed it to speak.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-07-31 01:58pm

VT-16 wrote:You´re equating a race that can build villages, hanggliders and catapults with monsters who live in garbage and filth? Come on, don´be such a bone-headed retard.

Hey you like your SW EU to be stuffed with Ewok pilots. I like it to conform with what the movies show. One man's steaming pile of shit is another's buffet. So dig in, asshole.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-31 03:15pm

Lord Poe wrote:
VT-16 wrote:You´re equating a race that can build villages, hanggliders and catapults with monsters who live in garbage and filth? Come on, don´be such a bone-headed retard.
Hey you like your SW EU to be stuffed with Ewok pilots. I like it to conform with what the movies show. One man's steaming pile of shit is another's buffet. So dig in, asshole.

Okay, we get it. Some people hate the idea of an Ewok pilot, some don't care. What's the book about?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-31 04:10pm

For those curious in what the damn book is actually about rather than all this jibba-jabba about some fucking Ewok pilot, here's the description from the Wookiepedia (the book is also set 32 ABY, by the way):

Luke Skywalker is worried because a group of Jedi Knights, including his niece and nephew, Jaina and Jacen Solo, have disappeared into the Unknown Regions in response to a strange cry for help that only they could hear. The Chiss Ascendancy has angrily lodged complaint, accusing the missing Jedi of interfering in a border dispute between them and an unknown aggressor. Luke Skywalker has no choice but to head to the Unknown Regions along with Han Solo and his wife Leia in an attempt to stop the growing tensions before they spill out of control. But not one of them is prepared for what they discover when they reach their destination. They discover that a colony of mysterious aliens is expanding toward the edge of Chiss space. The leader of the alien nest is resolute and adept in the Force. He is drawing old friends to his camp, making them join the colony and combine their Force-abilities with his, even if it leads to war.

SPOILER: The invading insectoid species is actually the Killik, the long ago thought extinct original native inhabitants of Alderaan that disappeared long before the planet was colonised by humans.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-31 04:11pm

That's stupid. There's no reason to revisit some throwaway line like that. Twelve million inhabited planets, people. Give me something really new. Christ.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-31 04:18pm

Personally I'd prefer something that had some previous connection like them rather than something coming totally fucking out of nowhere like the Vong. The only real problem I have with the premise is that although just a trilogy this time, it's yet another "extragalactic alien invaders" arc right on the heels of the first one.

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2005-07-31 04:22pm

This is too bad, really. At least I knew not to get my hopes up.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-07-31 04:45pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:. There's no reason to revisit some throwaway line like that.

Wait, what throwaway line? I've never heard of these dudes before.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-07-31 04:48pm

They were mentioned in the Illustrated Star Wars Universe and Tattooine Ghosts.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-07-31 04:56pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Personally I'd prefer something that had some previous connection like them rather than something coming totally fucking out of nowhere like the Vong. The only real problem I have with the premise is that although just a trilogy this time, it's yet another "extragalactic alien invaders" arc right on the heels of the first one.

That's exactly my point. Our beloved EU authors are acting like they they've used up the GFFA when they haven't - 12 million inhabited worlds - and not everything has to threaten the stability and integrity of the entire galactic order. In fact, their insistance on doing that over and over has only served to make the heroes and their works incompetent and weak.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-08-02 03:49am

Lord Poe wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:As noted, that's authors intent (and AFAIK unsupported statements) and thsu outside the purview of SoD.

George Lucas: "I didn't make Endor a Wookiee planet because Chewbacca was sophisticated technologically and I wanted the characters involved in the battle to be primitive. That's why I used Ewoks instead."

--Star Wars Annotated Screenplays, pg. 281.

Doesn't look unsupported to me.

Yes, thanks for the quote. (But you did note that I said "as Far as I know? IE I wasn't dismissing the idea it was supporrted, I just was not aware of the reference.)

So the very existence of a character is now "supporting evidence"? This isn't a SoD issue. Would you be equally ok if a Dianoga were a General in the Imperial Remnant?

Sure, why not? I don't really give a shit who they make an Admiral in the remnant. (Maybe they'd do a better job than Pellaeon or Daala

)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-08-02 03:51am

Lord Poe wrote:
VT-16 wrote:You´re equating a race that can build villages, hanggliders and catapults with monsters who live in garbage and filth? Come on, don´be such a bone-headed retard.
Hey you like your SW EU to be stuffed with Ewok pilots. I like it to conform with what the movies show. One man's steaming pile of shit is another's buffet. So dig in, asshole.

You know, the movies can be interpreted to suggest the Ewoks are not technologically inept exactly ( I do believe some people have pointed out examples, perchance?)

If you don't like Ewok pilots and prefer to think its not what is intended by canon, thats fine as your opinion. But stop pretending as if this is like Darkstar ignoring blatant canon fact.

Of course maybe I'm just one of those assholes you're talking to