Darth Vader's injuries and Imperial health care

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-12-06 12:06am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Stravo wrote:GAPING hole in the current theory about lost tech....the stormtroopers we see throughout the OT. I don't care what anyone says GL says they are CLONES and someone is growing them. And if SW is so advanced how can you say cloning is lost tech? Hell we're starting cloning NOW.

Not a satisfying answer. If Vader wanted cloned limbs I'm sure he can have them, the question is why not, why the prevalence of cybernetics as opposed to all natural limbs?
I think that the answer lies with the question. What's the point of replacing limbs with organic limbs? Vader's limbs displayed no movement problems, whatsoever. They were strong without requiring significant or apparent exercise on his part. They were dextrous. Why would he want to replace them with something that provided only as much functionality as he already had, and may have even been more dangerous. To have surgery to replace them with organic limbs would have taken at least three days, and it is likely that he decided they weren't worth the investment in time. The question is, "Why would he keep his cybernetics if he had access to organic limbs, if he wanted them?" The answer is simply that he did not want them. Organic limbs would have been weaker and much more easily damaged.

You're absolutely right about the strength of Vader's artificial limbs, but not about the speed. Vader lost a LOT of mobility when he made the switch; look at how drastically different Vader's combat style is from Anakin's. His immobility forces his to rely on hard, very powerful strokes that leave him exposed (ref. Luke's shoulder hit on Vader in ESB) and would be a huge liability against a quick, skilled opponent, even with his force powers. There is no doubt that he could move much faster with organic limbs.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-12-06 12:07am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Stravo wrote:GAPING hole in the current theory about lost tech....the stormtroopers we see throughout the OT. I don't care what anyone says GL says they are CLONES and someone is growing them. And if SW is so advanced how can you say cloning is lost tech? Hell we're starting cloning NOW.

Not a satisfying answer. If Vader wanted cloned limbs I'm sure he can have them, the question is why not, why the prevalence of cybernetics as opposed to all natural limbs?
I think that the answer lies with the question. What's the point of replacing limbs with organic limbs? Vader's limbs displayed no movement problems, whatsoever. They were strong without requiring significant or apparent exercise on his part. They were dextrous. Why would he want to replace them with something that provided only as much functionality as he already had, and may have even been more dangerous. To have surgery to replace them with organic limbs would have taken at least three days, and it is likely that he decided they weren't worth the investment in time. The question is, "Why would he keep his cybernetics if he had access to organic limbs, if he wanted them?" The answer is simply that he did not want them. Organic limbs would have been weaker and much more easily damaged.

But MoO, I thought that GL essentially labeled Vader a crippled old man and Luke an untrained boy as the analogy for their fights in OT. Why is Vader a crippled old man if not because he's not as dexterious as he was with organic limbs? He certainly didn't display the gymnastic fervor he had as Anakin in Prequel era. There seems to be a bias against them as well when Obi states that Vader is more machine now than man.

What about Luke? is it REALLY neccessary for Luke to take a bionic hand when he can just have a new one grown? (We both know the symbolic reason) but the true question is that in my mind at least there is a preference for your own tissue, an organic replacement as opposed to a mechanical one. Or maybe not.

Honestly if we lost a limb and I was given a choice, I would want the organic one.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-06 12:14am

I'd go for mechanical myself. If it's SW quality that is.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-12-06 12:17am

I think the only reason Luke got a mechanical hand was to mirror his father, or something.

Also, why does Anakin get the robotic arm in Ep II? Why not a bionic arm that actually looks like a human arm? Sorry if this has already been covered.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-06 12:20am

Ever figure that it might not have gotten the skin put on it yet?

Anakin and Luke's hand/arm are pretty much the same.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-06 12:20am

Durran Korr wrote:I think the only reason Luke got a mechanical hand was to mirror his father, or something.

Also, why does Anakin get the robotic arm in Ep II? Why not a bionic arm that actually looks like a human arm? Sorry if this has already been covered.

Probably because his wedding was only a few days away. In all likelyhood it takes a while and they might not have had time to fit it out completely.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-12-06 12:31am

Stormbringer wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:I think the only reason Luke got a mechanical hand was to mirror his father, or something.

Also, why does Anakin get the robotic arm in Ep II? Why not a bionic arm that actually looks like a human arm? Sorry if this has already been covered.
Probably because his wedding was only a few days away. In all likelyhood it takes a while and they might not have had time to fit it out completely.

That may be, we'll have to wait till Ep III to find out, I guess.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-06 01:22am

Durran Korr wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:I think the only reason Luke got a mechanical hand was to mirror his father, or something.

Also, why does Anakin get the robotic arm in Ep II? Why not a bionic arm that actually looks like a human arm? Sorry if this has already been covered.
Probably because his wedding was only a few days away. In all likelyhood it takes a while and they might not have had time to fit it out completely.
That may be, we'll have to wait till Ep III to find out, I guess.

I think the novelization makes it clear that the marriage scene takes place fairly shortly after he got back to Geonosis. It's possible he was fitted with a better prosthetic later.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-06 05:23am

I think the only reason that Vader didn't get transplantation and other logically available treatment is that Lucas wanted Vader to be a half human, half robot person.

It's more dramatic this way.
Also it impress a fearful aura and gives the character some kind of over-human feeling.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-06 10:03am

Maybe this goes back to the old "added strength" argument for cybernetic parts. If he was physically stronger with the parts added, then it would be a benefit, even if he could in theory be like Yoda... a tottering old geezer, who could still do mid-air somersaults in a fight thanks to the Force.

Though, as was pointed out in some other discussion, his whole skeleton would need to be reinforced somehow to make it all work and not have his hand tear off when he lifted something super heavy. ; )

We know he's still got some of his original bones, but that doesn't mean he can't have them reinforced with metal...a la Wolverine...

God Emperor · Post by **God Emperor** » 2002-12-06 05:42pm

Another rock to throw into the blades. what about the empires Mental Health Coverage, having all of them wounds has got to be tramatizing(?)
imagine all the counciling he had to get for:
1 leaving home young age
2 losing mom at 20 or so
3 losing an arm shortly after
4 killing all the tusken raiders
5 battling his old master
6 falling into a pit of some multant liquid
well you get the picture, it be silly if someday they did a darthvader journale and it had entries about appointments for helping him cope with what has happened to him

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-06 07:01pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: Probably because his wedding was only a few days away. In all likelyhood it takes a while and they might not have had time to fit it out completely.
That may be, we'll have to wait till Ep III to find out, I guess.
I think the novelization makes it clear that the marriage scene takes place fairly shortly after he got back to Geonosis. It's possible he was fitted with a better prosthetic later.

That could very well be the case. Ep3 will have the answers. So who wants to keep bumping till 2005?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-12-06 07:54pm

It's possible that Vader was crippled late in the slaughter of the Jedi, and that he simply didn't think he'd ever need to directly confront Jedi again, so he decided to simply go for the raw strength of robotics.

GL says they are CLONES and someone is growing them. And if SW is so advanced how can you say cloning is lost tech? Hell we're starting cloning NOW.

Yes, we are starting now. We're also decades away from being close to growing whole new limbs, let alone an entire organ.

Palpatine may still have a hand in this; it could be that his cloning facilities are secret and that by giving Vader new limbs he could potentially reveal that he has the technology which so many still fear and distrust.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-06 10:38pm

The cybernetics were probably superior to the organics. The reason he can't move like he was able to is because of the damage to his organs, and the reason that he can't replace the organs is that the damage was too severe.

The fact that the suit is enormously heavy might have something to do with it.

After the Preqs, he fights differantly. We see him train in SotE. He fights with a hacking, slashing, Medieval style. Broadsword-in-the-face style. Cut, cut, slash, hack. No finesse, because that is made impossible by the suit.

Now, cybernetic limps are probably stronger than organic limbs, and thus suit his new style of fighting, which relies on brute force, better.