Interesting info on Galaxy's largest shipyards

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Sea Skimmer
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

RThurmont wrote: If you've got a better metric, then please, share it with us. GRT output per annum indicates exactly how much "ship" can be produced in a given year,
All it tells you is how much empty space is inside of the ships. It doesn't even account for all the volume taken up by the actual structure of the ship, and this all makes it quite useless for measuring warships in any meaningful way.

irrespective of how many actual ships were commissioned, and the increased percentage of resources building large ships were required. So for instance, KDY could be building 5,000 ISDs per year, then start building 100 SSDs and 4,000 ISDs per year, with out a big change in GRT per annum, since obviously the SSD is much larger (those figures aren't exact, just to give you a sense of the advantage of measuring output this way).
Except such a comparison would only work if an ISD and SSD have the same ratio of internal empty volume to structure and all other things, which is rather unlikely. And a single larger freighter could easily have a dozen times the GRT of an ISD, while requiring far less resources to build.

The recently completed Queen Elizabeth II is over 150,000 GRT, but actually displaces only about 85,000 tons, and she cost only about 800 million dollars, less then the price of a 9000 ton Arleigh Burke destroyer. This is a demonstration of how useless GRT is for measuring building capability. About its only use in real life is as a means of calculating tolls for canals and docking, virtually its only reason for existing.
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Post by RThurmont »

Well since GRT is such an irrelevant metric, then please, feel free to suggest a superior one. However, just listing the faults in GRT doesn't get us anywhere. The fact remains, GRT is still immensely useful for getting an estimate as to the size of a vessel.

One other metric I could think of would be to calculate the cost of raw materials input (minus added on profit margins-just the cost of getting those raw materials, nothing else) or the cost of the components (also minus profit margins the component manufacturers would tack on) that would be used at maximum capacity levels, and this effectively gets past the subjectivity of maximum revenue generating capacity. However, here, we run into another problem:

While output capacity of a shipyard definitely has an upper limit, is there really an upper limit as to the value of component and raw material input? The problem that arrives then is differing costs of components and raw materials depending on the type of vessel being constructed. In addition, the actual amount of input needed to build a vessel of a certain size might vary depending on what particular class you were talking about; more efficient engineering might make some classes more input-efficient than others.

So again, with every other metric I've tried outside of maximum GRT output capacity per annum, we run into this problem. The problem with the GRT metric of course, is that it is also less than perfectly reliable, but so far, I can't think of any other metrics that can compare with it.

Look at it this way: we're not trying to estimate the total overall value and performance of a given vessel, we're trying to figure out what the overall upper limit of shipyard output capacity is. GRT per annum seems to be the only metric anyone has mentioned thus far that can get us anything approaching that level, and is FAR more relevant than just counting the number of these mysterious "slips" discussed in the books, which become highly subjective, when you consider that different slips might be totally different in terms of construction, and might have totally different output rates based on the sophistication and efficiency of business processes in use.
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Post by PainRack »

That's odd. The ISDs at Kuat during Tales of the New Republic was never stated to require mutilpe slips.....
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Post by Dark Primus »

PainRack wrote:That's odd. The ISDs at Kuat during Tales of the New Republic was never stated to require mutilpe slips.....
Just rules for the RPG, obviously it does not apply to EU. And the RPG seems t ohave low canon status, I hope.
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Post by The Dark »

PainRack wrote:That's odd. The ISDs at Kuat during Tales of the New Republic was never stated to require mutilpe slips.....
The "slips" of SoG may not necessarily be the physical docks, but may refer to a combination of docks and the construction crews. To quote:
Starships of the Galaxy wrote:Each ship is built in one or more semi-independent areas of the shipyard known as slips. Each slips builds part of the starship and works with other slips to install its piece into the final vessel.
It seems to me that could take place at one physical location even if you had multiple "slips" running - one "slip" would be doing hull plating, one installing engines, one running all the electronics systems through the ship, et cetera.
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Post by drachefly »

President Sharky wrote:There are no shipyards comparable to those at Kuat. The KDY primary yards are the largest in the galaxy by a wide margin.
OK, 10,000 shipyards with 25% the capacity or even 10% the capacity would dwarf the one shipyard.

Being non-minimalist is all about using the entire galaxy, not just some manageable number of planets within it. The galaxy is just by virtue of its size unmanageably large if you talk about planets.
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Post by PainRack »

The Dark wrote:Each ship is built in one or more semi-independent areas of the shipyard known as slips. Each slips builds part of the starship and works with other slips to install its piece into the final vessel.
It seems to me that could take place at one physical location even if you had multiple "slips" running - one "slip" would be doing hull plating, one installing engines, one running all the electronics systems through the ship, et cetera.[/quote]
Still doesn't work. You can't just mix and match construction facillities like that without losing efficiency. It would be much simpler to have dedicated factories making ship components and then having them install it on the ship itself, which would be what the "slip" is for. Places to do final installation and construction of the ship skeleton.
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Post by FTeik »

Well, there is always this part from the ISB:

"The largest deepdock now in operation is the Rendili R/M Facility Number Four, currently in the Mahrusha sector. It has 125 work bays, each of which is large enough to hold a strike cruiser. These work bays are modular, each segment joined to the other by attraction-variable Akinetic fields produced by Voorson generators larger than the drives on most combat starships.

This allows the work bays to be combined to form larger work bays; four work bays can be joined to repair or manufacture a Victory-class Star Destroyer, 15 can be combined to work on an Imperial Star Destroyer, and 18 can be reconfigured to produce a torpedo sphere. Work bays are being added as quickly as Rendili can manufacture them."
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Post by Dark Primus »

Thanks for the info on Rendili, very interesting.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

FTeik wrote:Almost two years to build an Executor? Was the siege of Yavin really that long?
They're wrong. If you work out the comic chronology there's no way it can be longer than three months, and at most, one or two.
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Post by President Sharky »

The Executor left the Fondor yards six months after the Battle of Yavin. At the time that Vader revealed the ship to a council of admirals, it had already been under construction for some time. This puts the upper limit for the Executor's construction time at 6 months. However, a large portion of Fondor's resources were directed toward the Star Dreadnaught's construction, and so other projects would probably have slowed down greatly as a result of this.

However, the Executor was never built in a "slip" like the ones in the pictures I posted, it was built in open space around Fondor by massive, ISD-sized construction cranes and likely tens of thousands of workers and droids. Although it is the fourth largest shipyard in the galaxy, Fondor had probably never built something so big, and so their infrastructure wasn't geared toward such a project, thus requiring them to invest more resources into the project. Although Lusankya took longer to build than Executor (probably because Fondor dedicated more overall resources to the Executor project), KDY already has Star Dreadnaught-sized "slipways" (massive 10 km construction stations), and thus construction is simplified for them, because the infrastructure is already in place to build such a vessel.
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