ARC-170 and the X-wing

[Typhonis 1]

I thought the A-ing was made after Yavin when , after reviewoing the tapes, they realised the enemy could keep up with them and they needed a faster fighter.

[rommel17]

I thought the A-ing was made after Yavin when , after reviewoing the tapes, they realised the enemy could keep up with them and they needed a faster fighter.

This is about the ARC-170. Start your own post on the A-wing, please.

The ARC-170 could prove useful in the campaign against Thrawn by providing valuble intelligence and striking Thrawn's supply lines.

[Ghost Rider]

Y'know I'll bite. Care to actually prove the Arc-70 is a better space superiority fighter or escort or bomber then any of those demonstrated in Ep 4-6 or are you just talking out your ass?

[000]

Thats because the Falcon's Hyperdrive was down and they couldn't escape.

He's talking about the Otana a completely different ship.



This ship was aiding the Rebels at the Battle of Hoth... along with the Outrider.

No, the Otana wasn't anywhere near Hoth. The Azzameens joined up with the Alliance some months later following a botched Bacta hauling job.

The Otana is a YT-2400 anyway, IIRC. I have no idea what the YT-2000 referred to is.

Y'know I'll bite. Care to actually prove the Arc-70 is a better space superiority fighter or escort or bomber then any of those demonstrated in Ep 4-6 or are you just talking out your ass?

Precisely. There isn't any reason to believe that an ARC-170 is in any way a superior assault fighter to a Y-wing, and it certainly is inferior to a B-wing, K-wing, XG-1, or any number of other newer Imperial or Rebel fighters.

Clone Wars ships might look cool, but there's a reason they're no longer in production.

[President Sharky]

Well, for one, the ARC-170 isin't an assault fighter, it's a heavy recon ship. Though it may serve as a fighter-bomber, it's really not intended for coordinated capital ship assault like the B-Wing or Y-Wing. The only real edge the ARC-170 has are its incredibly resilient shields, which may be an order of magnitude above those of the Y-Wing or B-Wing.

[Knife]

No, the Otana wasn't anywhere near Hoth. The Azzameens joined up with the Alliance some months later following a botched Bacta hauling job.

Incorrect, in the opening cutscenes, the Otana was seen leaving Hoth as the Imperials were setting up their blockade. I believe 'Hoth' was actually used in relation to 'Hoth Ion Control' when ground based fire took out the ISD.

The Otana is a YT-2400 anyway, IIRC. I have no idea what the YT-2000 referred to is.

Incorrect again. The Otana is a YT-2000. The Outrider is a YT-2400. Both, incindently, are apperently on Hoth prior to the Battle of Hoth.

Precisely. There isn't any reason to believe that an ARC-170 is in any way a superior assault fighter to a Y-wing, and it certainly is inferior to a B-wing, K-wing, XG-1, or any number of other newer Imperial or Rebel fighters.

Clone Wars ships might look cool, but there's a reason they're no longer in production.

This I will agree with you on.

[000]

Incorrect, in the opening cutscenes, the Otana was seen leaving Hoth as the Imperials were setting up their blockade. I believe 'Hoth' was actually used in relation to 'Hoth Ion Control' when ground based fire took out the ISD.

Incorrect again. The Otana is a YT-2000. The Outrider is a YT-2400. Both, incindently, are apperently on Hoth prior to the Battle of Hoth.

Yeah, you're right on both counts. I never caught them saying Hoth during the cutscene, but I just rewatched, and you're right, they do say it. In my defense, nowhere else in the game (that I remember) was it mentioned that Galen and Tomas were actually there during the battle. But... yeah, my bad.

The second is just me being sloppy. A simple google search would've saved my the mistake...

[Knife]

Incorrect, in the opening cutscenes, the Otana was seen leaving Hoth as the Imperials were setting up their blockade. I believe 'Hoth' was actually used in relation to 'Hoth Ion Control' when ground based fire took out the ISD.

Incorrect again. The Otana is a YT-2000. The Outrider is a YT-2400. Both, incindently, are apperently on Hoth prior to the Battle of Hoth.

Yeah, you're right on both counts. I never caught them saying Hoth during the cutscene, but I just rewatched, and you're right, they do say it. In my defense, nowhere else in the game (that I remember) was it mentioned that Galen and Tomas were actually there during the battle. But... yeah, my bad.

The second is just me being sloppy. A simple google search would've saved my the mistake...

No big deal, really.

[Connor MacLeod]

The ARC-170 has better shielding (presumably) and better payload (more torps I bet) and the aft gun, but its also slower (2600 gees as opposed to the X-wing, which can accel at over 3000 ges.) And the X-wing has twice the laser cannons. Its also alot less cramped than the ARC-170 is.

[rommel17]

The ARC-170 has better shielding (presumably) and better payload (more torps I bet) and the aft gun, but its also slower (2600 gees as opposed to the X-wing, which can accel at over 3000 ges.) And the X-wing has twice the laser cannons. Its also alot less cramped than the ARC-170 is.

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

In atmospere, the wings give more lift than a Y-wing. Imagine if Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo used an ARC-170 instead of a Y-wing in Splinter in the Mind's Eye. Be a smoother landing.

[Ghost Rider]

The ARC-170 has better shielding (presumably) and better payload (more torps I bet) and the aft gun, but its also slower (2600 gees as opposed to the X-wing, which can accel at over 3000 ges.) And the X-wing has twice the laser cannons. Its also alot less cramped than the ARC-170 is.

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

In atmospere, the wings give more lift than a Y-wing. Imagine if Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo used an ARC-170 instead of a Y-wing in Splinter in the Mind's Eye. Be a smoother landing.

Source?

[rommel17]

The ARC-170 has better shielding (presumably) and better payload (more torps I bet) and the aft gun, but its also slower (2600 gees as opposed to the X-wing, which can accel at over 3000 ges.) And the X-wing has twice the laser cannons. Its also alot less cramped than the ARC-170 is.

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though I don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

In atmospere, the wings give more lift than a Y-wing. Imagine if Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo used an ARC-170 instead of a Y-wing in Splinter in the Mind's Eye. Be a smoother landing.

Source?

Star Wars ROTS Incredible Cross-Sections pg. 6

[Ghost Rider]

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though I don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

In atmospere, the wings give more lift than a Y-wing. Imagine if Luke, Leia, Threepio, and Artoo used an ARC-170 instead of a Y-wing in Splinter in the Mind's Eye. Be a smoother landing.

Source?

Star Wars ROTS Incredible Cross-Sections pg. 6

Ah, should have clarified.

Where does it say

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

this is comparable to current craft?

[rommel17]

Star Wars ROTS Incredible Cross-Sections pg. 6

Ah, should have clarified.

Where does it say

That is why the ARC-170 is upgraded over the years as were the X-wings. Improved inertial compensators and engines can make it faster and longer range. Upgrades to guns can improve their destructivness, and etc.

this is comparable to current craft?[/quote]

I said at the beginning to assume the ARC-170 has been upgraded like all Star Wars fighters over the years. Whether those modifications are personal or industrial.

Personally I would upgrade the ARC-170 by replace all the circuitry with smaller and more powerful components, remove the tail gunner and place the guns under the R2 unit and use the freed space to hold more torpedos or place a mine dispensor to replace the torpedoes.

There are other possibilities as well, but I'll let others try out their ideals of upgrades, tactics, or use in certain battles.

[Lord Revan]

Why would more cheaper to refit and/or upgrade the ARC-170 a pre-TPM design then to use newer design like the Assault Gunboat, TIE/d, X-wing or B-wing.

[Knife]

I said at the beginning to assume the ARC-170 has been upgraded like all Star Wars fighters over the years. Whether those modifications are personal or industrial.

Personally I would upgrade the ARC-170 by replace all the circuitry with smaller and more powerful components, remove the tail gunner and place the guns under the R2 unit and use the freed space to hold more torpedos or place a mine dispensor to replace the torpedoes.

There are other possibilities as well, but I'll let others try out their ideals of upgrades, tactics, or use in certain battles.

It already had an R2 unit, plus the two man crew. It'll take more than more computors to compensate for what you want to do with and and what it was designed to do.

The ARC was designed for long range armed recon, not space superiority. The X-wing was purposed built for space superiority, plus, I believe, the rebels choose it becasause of the low crew complement but with good range.

[Knife]

On top of that, reading the ICS;

The ship resembels other Incom and Subpro fighting craft commonly used by Republic forces in the Rim. Notable cousins include the heavier PTB-625 and NTB-630 planetary and naval bombers, as well as the lighter, p opular one-man Z-95 Headhunter fighter (which will lead to a successor, the T-65 X-wing).

So even in the ICS, the ARC is compared more with attack craft than a space superiority fighter. The ICS goes out of it's way to mention a lighter and one man cousin, the Z-95 but implies the ARC is more attack bomber than fighter.

[rommel17]

I said at the beginning to assume the ARC-170 has been upgraded like all Star Wars fighters over the years. Whether those modifications are personal or industrial.

Personally I would upgrade the ARC-170 by replace all the circuitry with smaller and more powerful components, remove the tail gunner and place the guns under the R2 unit and use the freed space to hold more torpedos or place a mine dispensor to replace the torpedoes.

There are other possibilities as well, but I'll let others try out their ideals of upgrades, tactics, or use in certain battles.

It already had an R2 unit, plus the two man crew. It'll take more than more computors to compensate for what you want to do with and and what it was designed to do.

The ARC was designed for long range armed recon, not space superiority. The X-wing was purposed built for space superiority, plus, I believe, the rebels choose it becasause of the low crew complement but with good range.

I never said I would use it for Space Superiority. Defense suppression is what I would use it for and knocking out Gunboats and Picket Ships due to its agility over the B-wing till the E-wing is produced in big enough numbers

. As for computing power, that would be part of the upgrades to my variant.

Upgrades to its recon abilities can be better sensors and improved life support.

[rommel17]

Why would more cheaper to refit and/or upgrade the ARC-170 a pre-TPM design then to use newer design like the Assault Gunboat, TIE/d, X-wing or B-wing.

It is cheaper to update then spend millions of credits designing and testing new designs. Then there is the Nostalgia Effect. Why do you think the X-wing is still being used while the E-wing is new? Good designs can last a long time when upgraded to compete with newer designs.

[Lord Revan]

I never said I would use it for Space Superiority. Defense suppression is what I would use it for and knocking out Gunboats and Picket Ships due to its agility over the B-wing till the E-wing is produced in big enough numbers

prove it's cheaper/easier to refit/upgrade an ARC-170 then to use B-Wings, also what the source on the ARC-170 being more agile then the B-Wing.

[Lord Revan]

Why would more cheaper to refit and/or upgrade the ARC-170 a pre-TPM design then to use newer design like the Assault Gunboat, TIE/d, X-wing or B-wing.

It is cheaper to update then spend millions of credits designing and testing new designs. Then there is the Nostalgia Effect. Why do you think the X-wing is still being used while the E-wing is new? Good designs can last a long time when upgraded to compete with newer designs.

the X-wing and the Z-95 are common craft during ROTJ (and post-OT), the ARC-170 was so rare that it was used (almost) exclusivly by the GAR during the clone wars, upgrading a ship like that is a lot more work then design a new craft (, also IIRC the Orginal versions of the E-wing were flawed so NR had Upgrade it's X-wings)

Upgrades are also need testing and the thing spaceframe may not withstand the upgrades.

[Knife]

I never said I would use it for Space Superiority.

You directly compared it with the X-wing which implies you wanted to 'replace' the Xwing with the ARC;

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though I don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

The whole first half of that is directly comparing it to an Xwing. The last bit goes on to your attack role.

Defense suppression is what I would use it for and knocking out Gunboats and Picket Ships due to its agility over the B-wing till the E-wing is produced in big enough numbers

And it's more nimble than a B-wing because? And the E-wing is a superiority fighter like the X-wing. Why would they replace a heavy recon/assult craft with a dogfighter?

As for computing power, that would be part of the upgrades to my variant.

If they had that capacity, why the three man crew in the first place *notice, I wrote a two man crew earlier and I was wrong*? Why have three clones per ship instead of just one? We know they can make ships with just one man crew, but they put three on the ARC instead of more computers. If they could have, why didn't they?

Upgrades to its recon abilities can be better sensors and improved life support.

Now your just wanking. You want to take the ARC, give it better weapons, better shields, better sensors, better life support, better computers, less crew.

At this point you have a new ship. Why bother with the ARC.

[rommel17]

I never said I would use it for Space Superiority. Defense suppression is what I would use it for and knocking out Gunboats and Picket Ships due to its agility over the B-wing till the E-wing is produced in big enough numbers

prove it's cheaper/easier to refit/upgrade an ARC-170 then to use B-Wings, also what the source on the ARC-170 being more agile then the B-Wing.

Star Wars Guide to Vehicles and Vessels states the B-wings problems clearly. It is slow and unweildly and this lead to the K-wing. The B-wing was designed to deliver the firepower of a capital ship at a fraction of the cost, thus certain functions were sacrificed for firepower. The ARC-170 is designed for information gathering, fire support, and escort. If you watch the viewports during the show down against Dooku in ROTS, you'll see ARC-170s chasing down droid fighters which shows their dogfighting abilities.

As for proof, what is more cost effective, a proven design that can be updated or an unproven design, meant to be a stopgap, that later shows to have many short commings in its abilities that lead to its replacement?

[Lord Revan]

the "upgrade" you suggeting for the ARC-170 is nothing short of a complete rebuild, if there's nothing apart of the hull shape left of the orginal ship how is that not a new ship, but an upgrade of the old?

[rommel17]

I never said I would use it for Space Superiority.

You directly compared it with the X-wing which implies you wanted to 'replace' the Xwing with the ARC;

The ARC carries six torps like the X-wing, though I don't see where the launch tubes are. Though it has fewer Laser Cannons, they are more powerful in order to damage capital ships. As stated in an earlier post, ARC-170s can concentrate on defense suppresion while heavier bombers deliver their ordinance and X-wings keep the TIEs away.

The whole first half of that is directly comparing it to an Xwing. The last bit goes on to your attack role.

Defense suppression is what I would use it for and knocking out Gunboats and Picket Ships due to its agility over the B-wing till the E-wing is produced in big enough numbers

And it's more nimble than a B-wing because? And the E-wing is a superiority fighter like the X-wing. Why would they replace a heavy recon/assult craft with a dogfighter?

As for computing power, that would be part of the upgrades to my variant.

If they had that capacity, why the three man crew in the first place *notice, I wrote a two man crew earlier and I was wrong*? Why have three clones per ship instead of just one? We know they can make ships with just one man crew, but they put three on the ARC instead of more computers. If they could have, why didn't they?

Upgrades to its recon abilities can be better sensors and improved life support.

Now your just wanking. You want to take the ARC, give it better weapons, better shields, better sensors, better life support, better computers, less crew.

At this point you have a new ship. Why bother with the ARC.

The same thype of upgrades were done to the X-wing to put them on par with the E-wing. So your saying Rogue sqaudron's X-wings are no longer X-wings. Every ship in Star Wars was upgraded at some point or another to keep up current with technologies. Real World example would be the upgrades of all current US Aircraft Carriers to extend their service life. It would be far too expensive to replace them with totally new ships everytime there is a technology advance and impractible.

As for three Clones, it was done so kills with those rear guns would be increased and because droid fighters are single mindedly locked on to a target and can not be scared off like a human pilot.

As for comparing them to X-wings, you're twisting my words. Defense Suppresion is not the same as Space Superiority. An ARC-170 is used in a combined arms operation to suspress guns and radars that can target and destroy the bombers, X-wings engage the fighters even though ARC-170s can do so as well, but that is not the ARC-170s primary job just as fighting fighters is not a Y-wings job though it has a limited ability to do so.