Should "Unmasked Vader" Be Replaced in ROTJ?

[Kelly Antilles]

Return of the Jedi space battle could use some sprucing up- it's anemic.

Hey, I think it's pretty cool that TIEs suddenly come out of Star Destroyers. *heh*

[Crown]

This totally fucks up my memories of SW! NO George, do you hear me? NO!

[Alyrium Denryle]

So long as he spruces up the combat scenes(I want to see massive broadsides being exchanged between capital ships goddamnit)

I dont much care, it it adds to the plot, or shows a scene with aderanneans seeing a green wash over their planetary shields right before they die, that is fine with me.

[J]

I wouldn't mind him making changes too much IF he keeps the originals around and ALL the new revised versions are clearly labeled as such. The way it is now is so confusing with the "special edition" "collector's edition" "new edition" "limited edition" and all that other stuff, it's enough to make my head spin! How is someone suppose to keep it all straight? All I want is a nice unedited '77 version of Star Wars with the picture and sound touched up, and I have now idea if it even exists or where to find one!

[Crazy_Vasey]

I wouldn't mind him making changes too much IF he keeps the originals around and ALL the new revised versions are clearly labeled as such. The way it is now is so confusing with the "special edition" "collector's edition" "new edition" "limited edition" and all that other stuff, it's enough to make my head spin! How is someone suppose to keep it all straight? All I want is a nice unedited '77 version of Star Wars with the picture and sound touched up, and I have now idea if it even exists or where to find one!

That would be the THX edition which can be obtained very cheaply now at many second hand shops and market stalls. I picked mine up for a piddling £4 years ago, the special editions have killed the demand for them so they are cheap.

[Cpt_Frank]

This limited edition and new limited edition stuff are trilogy collections with specially designed boxes.
There are only 2 different versions of the actual film:

1. the unchanged original; available on VHS, VHS THX mastered

2. the special edition ; available on VHS THX mastered, VIDEO CD and bootleg DVD

As vasey said, the re-re-release which was 1996 I believe of the unchanged original edition was THX mastered, for better sound and video quality.

[Peregrin Toker]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!! This shall not be done!!

[Darth Yoshi]

First, I must state that Qui-Gon has no place in ROTJ. Lucas would have to fuck up the entire trilogy to get him to fit in the OT storyline, and I'm sure all of us would hate that. Second, if Lucas does change the OT, it would be nice to see battle damage in ROTJ or TESB.

[Durandal]

No sense in replacing the already fine actor with Hayden Christensen. It's believable that being thrown into a lava pit and spending a good deal of time behind a black mask will change a person's face.

What I think ought to be redone is Vader's communication with the Emperor in TESB. Digitally replacing the other guy with Ian McDiarmaid wouldn't be very hard, as most of the shots with him in them are shots of only him, and it would add tremendously to consistency.

Also, slipping the Imperial March into ANH somewhere would be cool. To date, it's been in every installment in one form or another except ANH. Other than that, I think ANH is OK.

The space battle in RotJ should be revamped. It should be longer with more ships, scenes of capital ships exchanging massive amounts of fire, more explosions and all that good stuff.

One thing they should do for every installment is redo the lightsaber effects. Compared to the prequels, the lightsabers in the old trilogy look horrible. They look like giant permanent markers. Doing the white shaft with the Photoshop glow effect on all the old material would be cool.

Also, one thing that kind of bugs me is the scenery differences. If it was possible, I'd say that Lucas should try and spruce up the scenery in the Death Star, for example, when any kind of computer is present. Take the room in ANH where Artoo first interfaced with the Death Star. The wall is a bunch of cardboard-looking blinking lights with primitive-looking images on the computer screen. Replacing it with stuff more along the lines of TPM and AotC would be cool, but while keeping a more utilitarian, military look.

Also, take out those stupid fucking pointless fire rings.

[Vympel]

No sense in replacing the already fine actor with Hayden Christensen. It's believable that being thrown into a lava pit and spending a good deal of time behind a black mask will change a person's face.

To be honest, I think they match up pretty well.

What I think ought to be redone is Vader's communication with the Emperor in TESB. Digitally replacing the other guy with Ian McDiarmaid wouldn't be very hard, as most of the shots with him in them are shots of only him, and it would add tremendously to consistency.

Bloody definitely. That wierd woman (yes it's a woman with the eyes of a cat or something) with the voice totally unlike McDiarmid's is just odd. Get rid of it.

Also, slipping the Imperial March into ANH somewhere would be cool. To date, it's been in every installment in one form or another except ANH. Other than that, I think ANH is OK.

Definitely.

The space battle in RotJ should be revamped. It should be longer with more ships, scenes of capital ships exchanging massive amounts of fire, more explosions and all that good stuff.

I don't know about increasing the length, as it requires new music, and while this isn't hard it does stuff up some scenes- re: the longer Boba Fett chasing the Falcon scene, where the music goes that one extra bit and it just seems wrong (I know shit about music, so sue me if I don't know the exact terminology)

What they should add is more Rebel ships, preferably some of the Calamari cruiser designs that they didn't have time to build when they were filming ROTJ. More weaponry and in general more action is a must. And fuck can we please see the Executor own at least ONE enemy ship?

One thing they should do for every installment is redo the lightsaber effects. Compared to the prequels, the lightsabers in the old trilogy look horrible. They look like giant permanent markers. Doing the white shaft with the Photoshop glow effect on all the old material would be cool.

Yup. I have a nostalgic film student friend who has the annoying habit of proclaiming that the older sabre effects look better. Don't ask me what he's smoking, I don't know. He's a bit anachronistic which I think can be explained because he's just getting into it and feels like he's missed out on all the film lore shit he's grown up on. He hates digital filming for example.

Also, one thing that kind of bugs me is the scenery differences. If it was possible, I'd say that Lucas should try and spruce up the scenery in the Death Star, for example, when any kind of computer is present. Take the room in ANH where Artoo first interfaced with the Death Star. The wall is a bunch of cardboard-looking blinking lights with primitive-looking images on the computer screen. Replacing it with stuff more along the lines of TPM and AotC would be cool, but while keeping a more utilitarian, military look.

It should be easily. They'd do well to replace the X-Wing targeting display, for example- make it more like Slave I's system in AOTC.

Also, take out those stupid fucking pointless fire rings.

Doubt they'd do that

[Stormbringer]

George better not do with that. There's no sense fucking over the original and stilll superior original trilogy. The special editions are by and large an improvment with a few blunders. But to go in and gut the originals at the scale he suggests would ruin it.

[Durandal]

George better not do with that. There's no sense fucking over the original and stilll superior original trilogy. The special editions are by and large an improvment with a few blunders. But to go in and gut the originals at the scale he suggests would ruin it.

None of the suggestions I posted would ruin the trilogy in anything more than a nostalgia sense, except for taking out those stupid fire ring things. I'd much rather see the original trilogy as true to Lucas' vision as possible, rather than wallowing in nostalgia over a stupid cardboard set being replaced by a cooler and more real-looking digital set. All I want is effects modifications, not this idiotic pandering to whiny parents bullshit.

[Uraniun235]

The change I most want to see would be something done with the Endor battle; it just doesn't work that well, and I think it's partially because George never takes the time to focus on anything except his precious starfighters.

[Durandal]

The change I most want to see would be something done with the Endor battle; it just doesn't work that well, and I think it's partially because George never takes the time to focus on anything except his precious starfighters.

I've never really thought of that before, but you're right. Although, to be fair, as a director (he didn't do RotJ, by the way), it's better to focus on small, one-man ships, because they only have one man.

[Peregrin Toker]

What they should add is more Rebel ships, preferably some of the Calamari cruiser designs that they didn't have time to build when they were filming ROTJ. More weaponry and in general more action is a must. And fuck can we please see the Executor own at least ONE enemy ship?

What about also including some of the large Imperial ships from Dark Empire - I don't mean the Eclipse and the likes of that, but the Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyer and the "humpback" battlecruiser seen at Byss (you know, the one escorted by a nearby ISD)??

[Lord Pounder]

Lucas is really pissing me off with all these special editions. I owned the OT on VHS, and i've bought the Special Edition on VHS, now i've been buying the NT on DVD as it comes out.

TO make me part with more of my money he's gonna have to do something really worth seeing. An extended Battle of Endor with more upclose battle scenes might make me buy, In the Battle of Hoth i would liek to see the ISD's shooting down some of the transports, and in ANH i would like to see the Saber fight bewteen Obi Wan and Vader re-vamped. In the OT Alec Guinness looked knackered and as the AOTC making of showed Actors can be cast over for doing Lightsaber scenes more specifically the Christopher Lee scenes.

[Uraniun235]

In the Battle of Hoth i would liek to see the ISD's shooting down some of the transports

I disagree; one of the strengths of the Hoth sequence was that it was primarily focused on Hoth, and not jumping all over the place like ROTJ.

[Vympel]

In the OT Alec Guinness looked knackered and as the AOTC making of showed Actors can be cast over for doing Lightsaber scenes more specifically the Christopher Lee scenes.

That would never happen- not only would everyone hate it, but there's nothing wrong with that fight.

[Galvatron]

George Lucas can do whatever the hell he wants with HIS story.

Yeah, which means he's free to ruin it (which, IMO, he's done already).

[Galvatron]

Should Hayden Christensen in old age makeup replace Sebastian Shaw as the "unmasked Vader" at the end of ROTJ? Wouldn't this make the ending much more poignant?

Hell, I agree with Irvin Kershner that Vader should never have been unmasked in the first place. I'd support a change that removes the unmasking scene altogether. Perhaps letting Luke see his unmasked face, but letting us see only the back of his head and Luke's reaction.

[LMSx]

Hell, I agree with Irvin Kershner that Vader should never have been unmasked in the first place

Where'd you hear that? Was there some interview with Irvin after RotJ?

[Vympel]

I liked the unmasking- it was a metaphor for him leaving the Dark Side.

[Galvatron]

Where'd you hear that? Was there some interview with Irvin after RotJ?

Yes.

[Galvatron]

I liked the unmasking- it was a metaphor for him leaving the Dark Side.

As I said, whether or not Vader was unmasked, I think that we shouldn't have seen his face. Seeing the mangled back of his head in TESB was enough for me. Luke's teary-eyed reaction shot in ROTJ was enough for me.

"I shot this scene very carefully. When the captain comes in and Vader is sitting in his capsule with his back towards us, all you see are scars on the back of his neck for half a second. I didn't want the audience to see anything else. I imagined that beneath the mask Vader was hideous; his mouth was cut away, and he had one eye hanging low. I was very surprised to see that he was an ordinary man in the third film."
- Irvin Kershner
Director
Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

[Vympel]

I liked the unmasking- it was a metaphor for him leaving the Dark Side.

As I said, whether or not Vader was unmasked, I think that we shouldn't have seen his face. Seeing the mangled back of his head in TESB was enough for me. Luke's teary-eyed reaction shot in ROTJ was enough for me.

"I shot this scene very carefully. When the captain comes in and Vader is sitting in his capsule with his back towards us, all you see are scars on the back of his neck for half a second. I didn't want the audience to see anything else. I imagined that beneath the mask Vader was hideous; his mouth was cut away, and he had one eye hanging low. I was very surprised to see that he was an ordinary man in the third film."
- Irvin Kershner
Director
Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

How could he speak without a mouth ?