The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

[nightmare]

How do people like this get into the top echelons of EU writing? Don't they have to sign a contract saying 'I promise not to fuck up George Lucas's creation by twisting it to my own personal idea of what Star Wars should be like'?

From what I can tell she's bloody stubborn and prideful combined with a no maths mentality. So, as long as her work a) contains no numbers and b) is without major flaws, all should be fine. That's how I guess she slipped past the screening process anyway.

[Jim Raynor]

How the fuck does she get away with COMPLETELY disregarding the numbers from other canon sources like the ICS, which stated that there were quintillions of droids and millions of ships (each one carrying 10s of thousands to millions of droids)? I thought LFL had continuity standards to uphold. If Saxton gets so much shit for supposedly ignoring other sources (which he really doesn't), why don't the fucktards at TF.net hang Traviss over this?

[nightmare]

How the fuck does she get away with COMPLETELY disregarding the numbers from other canon sources like the ICS, which stated that there were quintillions of droids and millions of ships (each one carrying 10s of thousands to millions of droids)? I thought LFL had continuity standards to uphold. If Saxton gets so much shit for supposedly ignoring other sources (which he really doesn't), why don't the fucktards at TF.net hang Traviss over this?

Well, from what I can tell about ThrawnMcIdiot and his possy, low numbers are always right. The lower the better and more correct, continuity-wise. Just don't expect their reasoning to make any sense whatsoever.

[Cao Cao]

Curtis Saxton gets a hard time because he says things that ignorant downsizers, morons and fanwankers don't want to hear.
He bases things on Lucas' Star Wars and real-world physics and his books add plenty of spice and realism to the SW universe. All of which is poison to the no-math, no-logic, STAR WARS IS FANTASY THAT MEANS I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT SHIT HEAD!!! fools who claim to speak for Star Wars.

[Spartan]

Oh the stupidity....hoe its burns....

I like how these conscripts that are virtually never mention, or any other army for that matter make up the vast numerical disparity in the minds to the downsizers.

I do have a serious question though since KT's Insider 78 article in the newest canon. does it real overide all the previous sources of droid numbers?

Does anyone have the exact quotes from the article yet?

[18-Till-I-Die]

I still say i dont get it.

These are the rabbid SW fans, but in most other cases rabid fans want to make their universe seem larger not smaller. Look at hardcore Fivers, Trekkies are renown for this, even StarCraft has its followers. But this is like fanaticism in reverse, like Nightmare said, its like they like 'em small...the smaller the better.

I dont get it man.

Though the fact is that most people will never get the 'real' numbers. Its almost impossible for most people to fathom a billion or so even, so quintillions is way out of most people's minds. I read once where someone was explaining this about the economy, why people go bug-eyes when you say thousands or millions of dollars, but higher and they start not to care, because the numbers become arbitrary meaning they become starkly incomprehensible (sp?) to the human mind. Or some such.

[Cao Cao]

I guess some people simply cannot comprehend things on such a large scale, and downsize it so that their pebble-sized brains can grasp the Star Wars universe without imploding.

I have to wonder if things like the Culture or a TARDIS would send these people into permanent comas if they had to deal with them like they do this stuff.

[VT-16]

I do have a serious question though since KT's Insider 78 article in the newest canon. does it real overide all the previous sources of droid numbers?

Not if the DK line of books, which are directly connected to the environments of the films and used as references by the film crews, still hold sway. The closer you get to the films, the higher the canon you have.

Traviss could write dozens of stories with clone commandos running around chasing terrorists, and they would still have as much say on higher canon as Crystal Star. :P

[Jim Raynor]

You know, in a twisted way, I almost WANT Traviss' retcon to be canon. I've been thinking for a while about writing an essay with a title like "The Pussiness of the SW Galaxy" and showing it to the TF.net anti-wankers. All of McEwok/Traviss/Pablo/etc's crap would be carried out to their logical conclusions. That means:

-The SW Galaxy is unmilitarized to such a point that it's almost completely pacifistic. After all, drafting 10 fucking men from each planet in the Republic would give you a force dozens of times bigger than the GAR.

-A 5-year old child soldier armed with an AK can defeat a battle droid. After all, no one can seriously argue that a single clone could take hundreds of billions of child soldiers, no matter how l33t he is. The facts that he has limited ammunition, has no where to dodge (even if the numerically superior enemy simply sprayed, they could cover every conceivable place he could run to), and has to stop to eat and shit would doom him.

-Nearly all of the worlds in the SW Galaxy are worthless backwater shitholes that contribute almost nothing to the galactic economy. Otherwise, how could Executor come close to bankrupting the Empire?

-The interior of Executor contains many square kilometers of empty space, gardens, amusement parks, etc. Less than 10% of the ship is actually devoted towards combat. After all, this is a ship that is about a hundred times as massive as an ISD, but is only as powerful as a handful of them.

-The Clone Wars wasn't a titanic, epic struggle, it was a tiny series of skirmishes and pansy-slapping contests that didn't concern the galaxy at large. After all, 3 million clones can only be in so many places at once, no matter how super-awesome they are.

That will show them.

[VT-16]

Do you have a blog on SW.com? If so, post that there, but without the profanity and don't mention any authors. Anything the mods can grab on to and have you thrown out for, should be excluded. Otherwise, wonderful rationalization of SW wankery.

Oh, and don't forget: 200 Dreadnaught-class cruisers are enough to threaten a galaxy. A handful of Imperial-class Star Destroyers are also considered equally bad, never mind the fact that they fielded 25 000 of them at the Empire's height. They should never had needed that many in the first place. =P

[nightmare]

*snip*

I can't help but think it would make them jump with glee. Have you seen the things they say?

[Cao Cao]

-The interior of Executor contains many square kilometers of empty space, gardens, amusement parks, etc. Less than 10% of the ship is actually devoted towards combat. After all, this is a ship that is about a hundred times as massive as an ISD, but is only as powerful as a handful of them.

Close down the mall!
Cancel the free-range circus!
Secure all animals in the zoo!
Sir shouldn't you buckle down?
Ah buckle this. Ludicrous speed! NOW!!

[18-Till-I-Die]

I wouldnt call it Star Wars 'wankery'.

Its more the complete reverse of wankery, by the usual definition of wankery, being to vastly overstate Series X to fit one's need to win a debate.

Its more like jobbing almost. Yes, SW Jobbery.

Doesnt sound as good but i think its more accurate, considering.

[Cao Cao]

I wouldnt call it Star Wars 'wankery'.

Its more the complete reverse of wankery, by the usual definition of wankery, being to vastly overstate Series X to fit one's need to win a debate.

Its more like jobbing almost. Yes, SW Jobbery.

Doesnt sound as good but i think its more accurate, considering.

I see it in the form of "personal wanking", they're downsizing SW by making it conform to their standards.
As in "This is how *I* see Star Wars ((because I'm too fucking stupid to see the vast, impressive society George Lucas set up)) and now I'm going to make it official! Ha ha ha! "

[Master of Ossus]

She really did a great job upping the size of the GAR. Now, 3 million is just what Kamino produced. There was a second secret facility on Coruscant. What does that add up to, 6 million?

Seriously. How the fuck does Coruscant suddenly start out-producing the master cloners who have been working on this project for a decade?

I'm going over to TF.net to see how the EU anti-wankers are responding to this. They probably love it.

Many of them do. Of course, those are the complete retards.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Why is it fair to dump all over Dr. Saxton's work and published content, but not Travis'?

[Cao Cao]

Why is it fair to dump all over Dr. Saxton's work and published content, but not Travis'?

That's just how the world works. Where hard working, decent people who actually know what the hell they're talking about before they open their mouths like Dr. Saxton get trashed by twits who can barely work out 2 + 2 = 4.

But at the end of the day, I'll settle down and read the various DK books he's written or advised on and be entertained by them whereas this Travis person doesn't mean jack shit to me and neither do these laughable claims. (Though it is amusing to beat them down mercilessly )

[Lost Soal]

I'm going to take a stab at the views.

EU says there was thousands of ships at Corusant, yet I watched the film and I don't recall seeing anywhere near that many ships. A few dozen at best.
Saxton says the Acclamator has 200Gt Turbolasers, yet we don't even see them fire. He must have made them up.
Basically Article A is not directly shown in the films, which is the supreme cannon. Therefore if what the EU says appears different, its false.

Now admittedly, I don't read the EU myself so I wonder where some of the numbers come from, but if these people are claiming to be SW purists, I can see them thinking that the films show small fleet and troop sizes on screen, there musn't be any great increase on these figures because it goes against the films.
And coincidently, thats also what the opponents of SW will say.

Go figure

[Ghost Rider]

I say we keep the small numbers. That way when asked a million systems we can point to three troopers who obviously have guns in the quadrillions of joule range fighting each other as the only way to resolve them threatening a civilan poulation.

[Cao Cao]

I'm going to take a stab at the views.

EU says there was thousands of ships at Corusant, yet I watched the film and I don't recall seeing anywhere near that many ships. A few dozen at best.
Saxton says the Acclamator has 200Gt Turbolasers, yet we don't even see them fire. He must have made them up.
Basically Article A is not directly shown in the films, which is the supreme cannon. Therefore if what the EU says appears different, its false.

Dr. Saxton worked out the firepower taking into consideration on-screen evidence from ISDs in the original trilogy, and published them in the Episode II ICS with full approval and backing from Lucasfilm.

[Lost Soal]

If thats how he did it, then fair enough.

But can you see Joe Bloggs watching the shots from an ISD and going;
"Ahh yes, that shot is deffinately a couple hundred Gigatonnes."

It doesn't look like it to the people complaining, so they refuse to accept it. Not that they've got any idea what it should look like anyway, since what they're likely thinking is "Hiroshima, Big Ass Explosions. Star Wars, What the fuck is that? A water pistol?"

[Stark]

That's ridiculous. People wonder why I hate the EU.

[felineki]

["This is how *I* see Star Wars ((because I'm too fucking stupid to see the vast, impressive society George Lucas set up)) and now I'm going to make it official! Ha ha ha! "

Isn't that basically what the entire EU is, anyway?

[Mange]

I'm going to take a stab at the views.

EU says there was thousands of ships at Corusant, yet I watched the film and I don't recall seeing anywhere near that many ships. A few dozen at best.
Saxton says the Acclamator has 200Gt Turbolasers, yet we don't even see them fire. He must have made them up.
Basically Article A is not directly shown in the films, which is the supreme cannon. Therefore if what the EU says appears different, its false.

Now admittedly, I don't read the EU myself so I wonder where some of the numbers come from, but if these people are claiming to be SW purists, I can see them thinking that the films show small fleet and troop sizes on screen, there musn't be any great increase on these figures because it goes against the films.
And coincidently, thats also what the opponents of SW will say.

Go figure

If you're thinking of the opening battle of ROTS, it's not only the EU that stated that there were thousands of ships, it was mentioned in one of the Hyperspace articles (IIRC, but I can't recall which one) that the animators had put in 5,000 capital ships in the opening battle.

[VT-16]

EU says there was thousands of ships at Corusant, yet I watched the film and I don't recall seeing anywhere near that many ships. A few dozen at best.

Oook, you must have seen a different copy of the film, then. I recall capital ships swarming the screen, but maybe that's just me.