The Karen Traviss Database

[Jim Raynor]

Here's some Traviss quotes from the Galactic Senate forums. I can't find a direct link unless I register, but I found out about it in one of your own posts, Poe.

Every argument I see that I - and Ryan, too - but it's obviously more rewarding to attack a woman) have the "wrong" figures seems to be to be based on emotional arguments and assumptions. We professionals have to go with hard data. We have no choice.

This final comment isn't directed at you, but is a general observation about the tone of the attacks on me since last September: they are highly emotional and gynophobic. The language used is not the language of numbers and logic. Yes, I'm a woman, and I've always done jobs that are largely the preserve of men. Calling me names based on my gender won't drive me out of any boys' club: it'll just make me dig in harder, and get more implacably logical.

I've spent way too much time addressing the aggressively-expressed obsessions of fewer than a dozen people. (I counted them at the time. Some have disappeared, I'm told, but I'll be generous with the estimate.)

The infamous mysogynist and "fewer than a dozen" Talifan quotes in one place!

[VT-16]

So because she believes there are misogynists attacking her, there are misogynists attacking her? Wonderful circular logic, there.

[000]

I think the fewer than a dozen people nonsense needs to be put to rest. Nobody here likes her retcons, a bunch of people at TF.NLF don't, and a bunch of people at Wookieepedia don't (altough granted they overlap with TF.NLF and here). I'd suggest an online petition just to get a bunch of names in one spot, but those are lame and easily dismissable.

[Lord Poe]

Gents, make sure you take a look at this HOS thread

[The Dark]

Hmm. Including me, I count 9 people who definitely dislike Traviss' retcon in this thread. Unless there are only 2 others in the entire world, her "less than a dozen" is off (probably by a few hundred on this board alone).

And I love the whole "The language used is not the language of numbers and logic" schtick. I know we figured how low the clone numbers were in another thread, and it was at most double digits per world (i.e. less than 100 clones). That's not enough clones to occupy a small town, let alone a densely populated world. If the Clone Wars had been such a small-scale action, it wouldn't have been spoken of with such awe twenty years later. We hardly see American youths talk about the awesome war in Grenada.

[nightmare]

Count me in. I don't just disllike what's she's doing, the more I read of Travissty, the more I dislike her person. "hard data" Bah, you wouldn't know hard data if they bit you.

I'd suggest an online petition just to get a bunch of names in one spot, but those are lame and easily dismissable.

I've already mentioned that once, but I think it got lost in the storm.

[Ghost Rider]

I dislike her because she's an an author who cannot take critism, and then hides behind her sychopantic whores to defend herself on a subject she's wrong.

I enjoyed her first book as something being a bit above par in the EU; which isn't saying much given my feelings of the EU. But her continuing rants and raves over this subject that she's wrong gives the impression that she's a whiny FF.net writer that got lucky, more then a professional.

[A-Wing_Slash]

I have read the threads here, the thread at TFN, and bits and peices of her live journal stuff, and I have yet to see a single person attack her because she is a women. She's trotted out the whole misogynists defense several times, but has she provided a single example of this occuring?

Also, I don't know if this would be a good idea, but if someone wants to refute the dozen people nonsense all they have to do is link her to the various threads here. There are well over a dozen people in this thread alone.

[Stark]

I'm not too familiar with the situation, but how effective would simply condensing her bullshit and debunking it in one post be? With regards to her flailing against evil sexist emotional credential-less people, a page of quotes would pretty much destroy her credibility.

Basically, why can't she be treated like Darkstar? Just the few quotes of hers I have read on this site show her to be a seriously strange, hypocritical woman. I'm sure there's more - particularly regarding her penchant for bashing the faceless hordes, or blaming the faceless hordes for vaguely defined crimes.

[Jim Raynor]

I think she is being given the Darkstar treatment with this new FAQ. She's said a lot of ridiculous, dishonest, and downright stupid things. Now it's up to us to show that to everyone else.

[ray245]

is there any girl here who wanted to help us prove to her that her idea is wrong?

Just love to see her face when she noted that the poster is a female, AND disagree with her. Certainly makes half the post invaild.

[Aquatain]

is there any girl here who wanted to help us prove to her that her idea is wrong?

Just love to see her face when she noted that the poster is a female, AND disagree with her. Certainly makes half the post invaild.

Well my mother who's 60 years old and have zero knowlegde of the SW unirverse remarked "3 million ain't alot is it?" when we saw the movie... but i hardly think i can get her to write any posts anywere

[Jim Raynor]

Traviss thinks she's clever for coming up with an equation for how we should behave, and compares us to the Inquisition:

+http://blogs.starwars.com/karentraviss/32

Angels, pinheads and inquisitions

I'm a bit tired of words today, so I thought I'd try an equation. It's about light and heat.

eW= ty x L /k

Where: eW = energy available (in watts)
ty = kilocalories spent in angry typing
k = opportunities wasted to do something useful in real life
L = length of the Super Star Destroyer x by systolic pressure

I substituted a few numbers in that, and boy, there was a lot of wasted heat and not much light generated. I thought about getting a heat exchanger fitted, but then I tried something different.

sb = eW x r /ty

Where: sb = social benefit to real people
eW = energy available
ty = kilocalories spent typing angry responses
r = real issues requiring action

You can see that if you reduce ty, then sb increases.


There are thousands of people in the world who would love to have no greater source of unhappiness in their lives than arguments about SSDs, GAR strengths and whether Han fired first - because they're being blown up by IEDs, or bombed, or starved, or being driven out of their homes by disasters and wars and any number of bad, real things. If the most upsetting thing that happened to them in their lives was arguing about Mara Jade's hair, they'd rejoice.

Passion about fiction is great when it's fun and lighthearted, or when it provides respite or sheds light on real issues. But save your anger about it - on both sides of the argument - and channel it into improving real lives. Visit a vets' home. Send our troops books. If the military isn't your bag, then raise money for famine relief or help an animal shelter. But whatever you do, remember what's real and get het up about that.

Last time people started fighting about how many angels could dance on a pinhead, folks got burned at the stake by the Inquisition. Those really weren't the good old days, believe me.

Or as Niner might say; save the fight for the enemy.

Every moment we spend criticizing her could have gone to saving the world.

And what was that about both sides saving their anger? Why does she spend time writing blog entries insulting the "Talifans," instead of volunteering at the local animal shelter?

[Stark]

Isn't that a line used by a troll years ago - that we should all give up and become saints of charity organisations? How anyone can even THINK things like that without encountering the corollary 'I should do that too' is beyond me.

How many people is she preaching too? How many different people appear to be supporting her? Everyone I know who reads this stuff thinks she's a loon!

[Vympel]

Ah, the last whinge of the loser.

"Waaah! None of this matters! It's not important! Why aren't you out giving to charity instead of insulting my work for the bullshit that it is! Waaah!"

[PayBack]

Hey I'm willing to donate some money to charity if she's willing to admit she fucked up. I mean why is it all THEY won't listen to reason THEY won't see my side of things THEY don't like me cos I'm a woman... why doesn't she ever look at herself and consider that perhaps it's she that should bend.

[Mange]

This woman makes me raise my eyebrows:

+http://karentraviss.livejournal.com/284 ... 4#t5113994

First she makes post after post slamming the "talifans" and even suggests creating an archive with details about them and then she's acting surprised when people who have been offended dares to show up, including people who never insulted her to begin with.

[Grasscutter]

The number of Clone Troopers fighting in the war is something that a lot of people probably could have let go or rationalized away (attached planetary defense forces, etc.). But Ms. Traviss has took this argument beyond just a question of numbers when she declared that the Clone War was "a brush-fire war". She's not just publishing illogical numbers – she's changing the very feel and style of the Star Wars story.

Her vision of Star Wars seems to be more of a small-scale but intense political thriller. There's nothing wrong with telling those kinds of stories, and there's certainly a place for them in the Star Wars franchise. It's a big galaxy after all and there's room for all types of stories, whether they are big or small in their scope. This does not, however, mean it's right for her to try and retcon the rest of the Star Wars universe into conforming with her vision.

I always thought Star Wars was supposed to be a sweeping, epic sci-fi/fantasy story. If George Lucas comes out and says, "Hey, you guys got it wrong. Palpatine's propaganda machine hyped everything out of proportion to consolidate his power. He also somehow convinced the anti-militaristic Jedi into helping him militarize the Republic", then I'll retract my statements.

[Crown]

Wayne, if you're going to use her moronic 'Angels, Pinhead, etc' post, make sure to include Colonel Olrik's response;

'Watts don't equate with Kcal(m*Pa), so she's obviously full of shit.'

And;

'And you can also remind her that energy doesn't come in Watts.'

That's just an altogether special kind of ownage if you ask me.

[Lord Poe]

Wayne, if you're going to use her moronic 'Angels, Pinhead, etc' post, make sure to include Colonel Olrik's response;

'Watts don't equate with Kcal(m*Pa), so she's obviously full of shit.'

And;

'And you can also remind her that energy doesn't come in Watts.'

That's just an altogether special kind of ownage if you ask me.

LOL!! I hope to begin piecing this together by tomorrow morning. (I'm off work!)

[Jim Raynor]

The number of Clone Troopers fighting in the war is something that a lot of people probably could have let go or rationalized away (attached planetary defense forces, etc.). But Ms. Traviss has took this argument beyond just a question of numbers when she declared that the Clone War was "a brush-fire war". She's not just publishing illogical numbers – she's changing the very feel and style of the Star Wars story.

Exactly. Does Traviss ever wonder why people don't go criticize the other EU authors, even if they also make stupid minimalist crap (except how we're misogynists )? IIRC, Zahn made 20,000 Spaarti cylinders with the capability of producing a whopping 480,000 clones per year a big deal. But from what I've seen, most people around here have a positive attitude towards Zahn. It's not that she was minimalist, it's the way she acted afterwards. She insulted fans, refused to admit mistakes, and put self-serving crap in her later canon works to justify this stupid 3 million number. If other writers didn't think their minimalism was stupid, they at least didn't come out in public and act like retards in an effort to defend it. You could also give them the benefit of the doubt that they made honest mistakes with their numbers, instead of intentionally trying to downsize the SW galaxy.

Her vision of Star Wars seems to be more of a small-scale but intense political thriller. There's nothing wrong with telling those kinds of stories, and there's certainly a place for them in the Star Wars franchise. It's a big galaxy after all and there's room for all types of stories, whether they are big or small in their scope. This does not, however, mean it's right for her to try and retcon the rest of the Star Wars universe into conforming with her vision.

I doubt she had a "vision." It is my belief that she's only carrying on and rewriting canon to cover her own ass.

[Master of Ossus]

Don't forget the death threats she makes on her LJ.

The name Talifan might be more apt than I ever thought, and [info]rc_ghost's splendid phrase internet madrasas equally revealing.

Two key elements leap out at me: the insular nature of the deviant group, their previous normality until exposed to some idea or personal influence, and the "downward spiral" effect of them vying with each other to be more extreme - best described by former members of the Baader Meinhof gang in frank TV interviews.

This is clearly a universal phenomenon, but right now I'm not sure if I'm looking at one syndrome or a mix of aberrant behaviours manifesting similar symptoms. The internet element is a significant one in this, I feel. I get a whiff of Aspergers, OCD, religious orthodoxy, plain old normal human susceptibility, and a dozen other things.

And, yes, some of them - maybe most - might just be normal humans,and thus easily led and prone to conform.

Just like the clones*, in fact. How ironic.

But I need to unravel this.

I'll keep you abreast of what other dingbattery I unearth (every tie-in writer has a stack, I know) but at the moment I'm on the hunt for any academic who's done research into the psychology of obsession and anti-social behaviour among fans, be that in the context rock stars, actors or just grunt hacks like me.

Fascinating. Utterly fascinating. My gut reaction is that they all need garotting, but my rational self finds it all...fascinating.

(*Except the clones have sex lives. Chicks dig armour. )

[Lord Poe]

As some of you know, Kevin J. Anderson is often cited as one of the authors of the term: "Talifan". There's probably areason why. See, after dumping a steamy pile in the SW universe, Anderson went on to defecate in the Dune fans' Cheerios. So once we have the KTD up, maybe we should contact our brothers-in-arms:

+http://www.thesietch.com/index.php?name ... topic&t=59

[Lord Poe]

Don't forget the death threats she makes on her LJ.

Yeah, she's the normal one; unmarried spinster who keeps rats for pets, collects pens, and calls herself a journalist when the only hard hitting articles that can be found on her are of the "furry creatures need wuv too!" variety.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4360947.stm

But then, in the ultimate irony, we have this quote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/871860.stm

"There are too many wild lists with inaccurate numbers going around."

Karen Traviss, Portsmouth City Council

THEN, she fancies herself as some tough as nails merc or something because she "worked for" the police, or some such. You know, a janitor at New Scotland Yard can claim that as well.

[Lord Poe]

Don't forget the death threats she makes on her LJ.

Ossus, what's the exact link for that?