De-cannonize the EU.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-07-29 05:20pm

I'd love to see the entire EU decanonized. It all belongs in the same realm of apocrypha as the green bunny from the Marvel comics and Luke's first duel (:roll:) with Vader in Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-29 05:34pm

Batman wrote:No, but some people will prefer TTT, the Wraith Squadron books and Spectre/Vision over the new stuff (especially if the new stuff is JAT/Crystal Star quality). The orignal idea was to decanonize the entire EU, remember?

Fair enough.

Batman wrote:Decononizing parts of it I would agree with (I can certainly live without The Crystal Star and the whole NJO shit), assuming it could be done.

Just get rid of everything between Wraith Squadron and...the Corellian Trilogy. Most of those authors don't even write SW anymore, and no one usually references them.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-07-29 05:52pm

I have been reading the old Marvel comics series recently... and they are stupid

They have a certain charm, even with the "Luke/Han/Leia/the droids do everything" cliché. And I like the epic feel of Admiral Giel's fleet and his ship, and the fact that he's not a moustache-twirling psycho.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-29 06:06pm

If it coul be done, like I said in the OP, I would like to keep all the same characters and tech. Planets and species that have come from the EU would be fine as well. The SW galaxy is big enough for all of them.

What I would like to see redone are the stories of the people, places and things. The fact that Mara Jade was an Emporer's Hand wouldn't change, but possibly how it came to be would.

Things like Chewie dying to save Anakin Solo, who then in turn dies, I really liked. It added much more menace to the Vong invasion. (Side bar: Did Lucas request Anakin Solo's death? I remember reading that some where.)

On the other hand, the constant reuse of the Sith. Repetative crap. Like I've always said, especially in my critique of the EU, the SW galaxy is a massive canvas for story telling and it has barley been explored outside the characters from the movies.

In the NEW EU, if a writter liked a certain element of a story then he/she could incorporate it into thier own. Good writters borrow, great writters steal and so fourth.

A couple people mentioned a sort of overseer to maybe sort through the crap and the gems into what might become carry overs to a new EU. Who would be good for that job?

One other thought I had. I think that most of us all agree that ESB is by far the best SW movie. Well that was GL's story, but told through the eyes of different people, Kirschner and Kurtz where Lucas had the final say. Maybe some of the worse EU stories could benifit from that treatment. I guess a retelling or a remake if you will.

I know that there have been ideas that I have been stoked for and then was completely let down because of the poor execution of the story. I'm sure most of you have felt this way as well.

Again this is all just my opinion. I just think it would be a good time to do it.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-29 06:20pm

Tychu wrote:Do yourself a favor read the X-Wing novels and you'll get your answer why it took the NR 5 years. To me its very believeable. Grand Empires don't fall apart when a major battle happens at the outskirts of its territories.

For your Luke knowing his father thing
Again only a handfull of people knew that Anakin Skywalker = Darth Vader
and out of that handfull about 3 people knew about Anakin and Padme. By the time Luke would have cared to look for his mother (ROTJ and he would look after the battle of Endor) 2 out of the 3 of these people died and the other was dead for 3 years now. How would you have Luke find his mother.
Read the EU and you'll see that after about 8 years of searching he comes across a lady that says that she knows Lukes mother. this turns to be a farce and Luke gives up. I personally wouldnt go searching again if i was played for that chump game

I'm only responding this, because I have dumped countless hudreds of dollars on the EU, and have in fact read every book that came out right up until the the second or third of the Vong invasion series. I don't necesarily have instant recall on them, but i have read them. I just wanted YOU to know that. Oh and I've watched the different movies literaly thousands of times.

Oh and if you were trying to find your mom whom you never knew and could still be alive, I don't think you would give up after one try, no matter how long it took. But I did like that story because it showed that there ARE other Force users in the galaxy beside Jedi and Sith.

One more thing, substitute Grand Republic for Grand Empire and a minor taxation blockade for major battle.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 06:26pm

He didn't give up after one try. He gave up after eight years of finding nothing with the only thing he did find turning out to be a fraud.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 06:30pm

havokeff wrote:
Tychu wrote:Do yourself a favor read the X-Wing novels and you'll get your answer why it took the NR 5 years. To me its very believeable. Grand Empires don't fall apart when a major battle happens at the outskirts of its territories.
One more thing, substitute Grand Republic for Grand Empire and a minor taxation blockade for major battle.

The Republic didn't fall apart, it was overthrown from within and it STILL took Palpatine 20 years to do away with the trappings of a republic. Oh, and a couple thousand systems trying to seceed isn't exactly a 'minor taxation blockade'.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2006-07-29 06:32pm

The problem with Luke and Leia not knowing who their mother is stems from the fact that Obi-Wan could have told them at any time between ROTJ and when he stopped being able to show up in TTT. I know it wasn't possible at the time because the canon for it didn't exist, but it makes no in-universe sense whatsoever. The danger in the Skywalkers knowing their parentage is gone post ROTJ.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-07-29 06:52pm

Tychu wrote:For me the definitive version of the taking of Coruscant was in the X-Wing novels.

The Rebels took Coruscant before Dark Empire I. Dark Empire features the Empire trying to take it back.

Do yourself a favor read the X-Wing novels and you'll get your answer why it took the NR 5 years. To me its very believeable. Grand Empires don't fall apart when a major battle happens at the outskirts of its territories.

The X-Wing books start at 3.5 years and the amount of blood and toil they show being expended over so-called tough fighting for the Core is pathetic. Dark Empire may have shown a surprise attack doing it in little time, but at least it tried to express it in reasonable terms for a galactic civilization, with Coruscant's orbit completely filled with wreckage from the largest of warships and its surface completely occupied with heavy armor and troops fighting. The NR even lost a Star Destroyer doing a hit and run. If this was Stackpole, it would've been 6 pilots from Rogue Squadron and they would've reversed the entire occupation.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 07:22pm

While the X-Wing novels followed the minimalism trend started by TTT they nevertheless I think got the timeframe right because they applied the minimalism to both sides. There's no way in hell the Alliance could've got to Coruscant in any less time.
If anything it should have taken a lot longer.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-07-29 07:32pm

What about allowing the rewrite of the universe post-films in an AU, a la Ultimate Marvel except without a complete overhaul?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 07:35pm

Isn't there already something like that called 'Infinities'?

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-07-29 07:44pm

Infinities was a one-shot series, more like Marvel What if? and DC Elseworlds.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-29 07:47pm

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Infinities was a one-shot series, more like Marvel What if? and DC Elseworlds.

No, that's Star Wars Tales. Infinities is a categoriser for canonicity.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-29 08:11pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Infinities was a one-shot series, more like Marvel What if? and DC Elseworlds.
No, that's Star Wars Tales. Infinities is a categoriser for canonicity.

He probably means the Infinities series based on the OT. A New Hope: Infinities and so on.

Adam Reynolds · Post by **Adam Reynolds** » 2006-07-29 10:26pm

I completely agree with decannonizing the EU. Why should we have to deal with crap like lizzards that can block the force, neverdying sith, the everlasting Empire, and countless worthless enemies. Why should there continuously be new enemies poping up can't we just have the New Rupublic survive peacefully.

EDIT:This story sums up my opinion of the EU (and yes its been posted before)
http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_tril ... 840777/p1/

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 10:42pm

Does local law require me to seriously consider the mad ramblings of people who can't even spell 'canon' properly?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-07-29 10:46pm

Adamskywalker007 wrote:I completely agree with decannonizing the EU. Why should we have to deal with crap like lizzards that can block the force, neverdying sith, the everlasting Empire, and countless worthless enemies. Why should there continuously be new enemies poping up can't we just have the New Rupublic survive peacefully.

I can understand taking issue with portions of the EU, but I always thought that railing against the entire thing on principle was incredibly pig-headed, especially in such an incoherent manner.

EDIT:This story sums up my opinion of the EU (and yes its been posted before)
http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_tril ... 840777/p1/

That made very little sense, and I'm not entirely sure what aspects of the franchise its even attacking.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-29 10:46pm

Yeah yeah Bats, I already apologized for my spelling.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 10:55pm

That was in response to Adamskywalker007, actually.
And since when are ysalamiri lizards?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-07-29 10:59pm

Batman wrote:That was in response to Adamskywalker007, actually.
And since when are ysalamiri lizards?

I don't believe their taxonomical classification is ever clearly defined (although I haven't read the Thrawn trilogy for some time; it may be mentioned there). They do appear to have some reptilian qualities in certain illustrations, but they are also described as being "hairy".

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-07-30 03:42am

Batman wrote:While the X-Wing novels followed the minimalism trend started by TTT they nevertheless I think got the timeframe right because they applied the minimalism to both sides. There's no way in hell the Alliance could've got to Coruscant in any less time.
If anything it should have taken a lot longer.

So more minimalism is good simply because of a time figure you yourself admit was still unrealistic? At least the Empire attacked from the rear and with a developed military-industrial complex, military establishment, and powerful equipment. The Rebel Alliance somehow developed a government and worked in from the most poor, sparsely populated and resource-deprived regions inward toward the richest, most populated, and most resource-enriched regions and somehow developed an entirely independent military establishment, industrial complex, and independent equipment (Mon Cal warships - this is a huge pet peeve of mine) and did it in five years? And TTT was bad, but at least it was only one step down from WEG. X-Wing was much worse. TTT took place after 5 years of brutal civil war, warlordism and infrastructure collapse, and displayed decisive yet relatively remote engagements. X-Wing shows the hard fight for the Core, and produces what, TWO STAR DESTROYERS to defend the capitol, and all the Rebels think is, "hmm, we expected more"? This is literally hundreds of millions of times less than the military materiel presented at Endor in a trap for a guerilla movement, and we're talking the galactic capitol. The idea that Stackpole had the NR taking the piddly-shit forces it did and credibly thinking it could take the Imperial capitol is without credibility to me.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-30 04:03am

Batman wrote:That was in response to Adamskywalker007, actually.
And since when are ysalamiri lizards?

I think he might be talking about the lizards that enslaved souls to pilot thier ships or something... bah! such crap... couldn't they block the Force or something. I think they invaded galaxy from one of the spiral arms... little help people? Truce at Bakura maybe?

I spelled the title of the thread wrong, just in case you hadn't noticed.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-07-30 04:07am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Infinities was a one-shot series, more like Marvel What if? and DC Elseworlds.
No, that's Star Wars Tales. Infinities is a categoriser for canonicity.

I thought that the Infinities stories were the ones where like Luke dies on Hoth and Han goes to Dagobah instead?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-30 04:07am

havokeff wrote:
Batman wrote:That was in response to Adamskywalker007, actually.
And since when are ysalamiri lizards?
I think he might be talking about the lizards that enslaved souls to pilot thier ships or something... bah! such crap... couldn't they block the Force or something. I think they invaded galaxy from one of the spiral arms... little help people? Truce at Bakura maybe?

Yes, Truce at Bakura. The Ssi-ruuk used a process called entechment that drains the life forces of living beings as power sources for their starfighter droids. They couldn't block the Force but were essentially blind to it. Their home planet was way out in one of the spiral arms.

And ysalamiri are basically lizard-ish and furry animals. They're the ones who can project "bubbles" that nullify the Force.