The **** Official **** Stardestroyer Thread

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-05 05:30am

Oh I forgot to mention that the only source I've read for the Defender-Class SD is from the WOTC Starships Of The Galaxy, but I'm assuming it got itf rom a novel.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 07:57am

Source? Don't know, that's what Saxton claims *shrugs*

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-05 08:06am

Vympel wrote:Source? Don't know, that's what Saxton claims *shrugs*

*sigh* http://www.theforce.net/swtc/novels/sol.html

It's in the novel Shield Of Lies. The novel calls it an Executor-Class, but then later calls it a Super-CLass.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 08:10am

EU consistency STRIKES AGAIN!

I also just found it. Had to do a google search.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-05 10:54am

Vympel,

It appears that there is an official source which labels the "Super Star Destroyers" as Executor-Class. Even though the same novel apparently contradicts itself that is enough proof for me that Executor-Class can be used as the official term without too much doubt. The situation would be clearer if the EU would remain consistent on such matters.

The references to Super-Class still exist though and I'm not sure what to make of that. Perhaps Super-Class is a general class name for all Star Destroyers larger than "Imp"-Class Star Destroyers, therefore, one can use Super-Class Star Destroyer in situations that don't require one to specifically state the exact class name of the ship. For example, if there is only one warship that is larger than the Imp-Class Star Destroyers it would not be incorrect to call it a Super-Class/ or a Super Star Destroyer like Admiral Ackbar did. If there were more than one he would have had to say "Concentrate all firepower on that Executor-Class Star Destroyer etc... But since there was only one he could say Super Star Destroyer without any confusion. There isn't any proof that Super is slang though, for that reason I rationalized the usage of it in this manner.

I agree that the EU writers don't seem to know what they are doing sometimes.

As far as the Imperial/Imperator is concerned, I still don't think there is enough evidence to place Imperial as slang. There just isn't any official evidence/statements that use Imperator-Class beyond the Mandel Blueprints. There are a lot of other sources that use Imperial-Class. I looked up Imperial in the dictionary as well, just to clarify its meaning.

imperial
SYLLABICATION: im·pe·ri·al
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: m-pîr-l KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of an empire or a sovereign, especially an emperor or empress: imperial rule; the imperial palace.2. Ruling over extensive territories or over colonies or dependencies: imperial nations.
3a. Having supreme authority; sovereign. b. Regal; majestic.
4. Outstanding in size or quality.
5. Of or belonging to the British Imperial System of weights and measures.
NOUN: 1. An emperor or empress.
2. The top of a carriage.
3. Something outstanding in size or quality.
4. A variable size of paper, usually 23 by 33 inches (55.8 by 83.8 centimeters).
5. A pointed beard grown from the lower lip and chin.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin imperilis, from imperium, command; see empire. N., sense 5, after the beard of Napoleon III.

Here is the definition of Imperator:

imperator
SYLLABICATION: im·pe·ra·tor
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: mp-rätôr, -tr KEY
NOUN: 1. An army commander in the Roman Republic.
2. The supreme power of the Roman emperor.
3. The head of state and supreme commander in the Roman Empire, in whose name all victories were won.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin impertr. See emperor.
OTHER FORMS: im·pera·tori·al (m-pr-tôr-l, -tr-) —ADJECTIVE

The definitions under Noun are not necessarily incompatible, really. For Imperial it is defined as being an emperor and/or empress. For Imperator it is defined as being an army commander from the Roman Republic etc...

While Imperator sounds better and has a more impressive definition for the sake of naming warships, Imperial is not that bad of a choice. How do we reconcile Imperator and Imperial then? Until there is more official evidence we can't demote Imperial to slang. There are simply too many sources that use Imperial-Class. We can't reconcile Imperial/Imperator like we can Super-Class/Executor Class. Therefore, I believe it is more reasonable to use Imperator as a separate class until we have more information that properly explains the issue. Vympel, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree until there is more evidence.

There is precedent in the EU for making new ship classes out of incomplete or preliminary ship designs/blueprints. For example, the Victory-Class came about in the EU from the early versions of the Imp-Class Star Destroyers. There was never supposed to be a Victory-Class Star Destroyer. The original Imp-Class Design that wasn't used became that. It is not unreasonable for the time being to use Imperator-Class in that manner until more evidence is found.

I think you can agree to the suggestion I made that reconciles Super-Class and the other classes of Super Star Destroyer, such as Executor-Class.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-05 11:36am

I agree with you that we should agree to disagree. For your part, you have made an excellent argument- I feel I sometimes get a bit presumptuous in these debates but I never think badly of the person afterwards if they've made rational points.

Until we have more evidence- I will say- ISD.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-05 02:23pm

Vympel wrote:I agree with you that we should agree to disagree. For your part, you have made an excellent argument- I feel I sometimes get a bit presumptuous in these debates but I never think badly of the person afterwards if they've made rational points.

Until we have more evidence- I will say- ISD.

I can certainly see where you are coming from on this issue and have made very good points. Imperator fits a lot better with the other Star Destroyer classes we see in the EU for the most part. Your strongest pieces of evidence are the Mandel Blueprints and the class name consistency. I hope that in Episode III GL clears up the confusion by just adding in the proper class name for the ISD's. It wouldn't be that difficult to do that (this depends upon if we see ISD's or not and the design lineage which is another discussion in itself).

Your are correct though, ISD and ISD II are the less controversial terms.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-11-07 04:04pm

Interesting note, page 320, Shield of Lies, listing of a Super Star Destroyer as an Executor-Class Star Destroyer.

Kickass.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-08 12:43pm

I really dont see how anyone here can argue saying it is Imperator-class without first coming out and saying that the movies are not in fact canon...
IMO the movies say Imperial thus that is what they are... but to each his own. When someone says Imperator-class or Imperial-class I know exactly what they are talking about.... I think we all do.... so whats the big deal either way?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-08 12:46pm

When do the films say Imperial-class?

They don't.

Moral: Don't fucking lie.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-11-08 01:52pm

meNNis wrote:IMO the movies say Imperial thus that is what they are... but to each his own.

I've only ever seen it used as slang, like you would say "let's ditch that american carrier"

When someone says Imperator-class or Imperial-class I know exactly what they are talking about.... I think we all do.... so whats the big deal either way?

Imperial-class sounds childishly dumb

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-11-08 04:03pm

How boring are the US armed forces! Why do they have so many american-class airplanes, american-class submarines, american-class trains, american-class schools and american-class citizens? Can't they think of anything more original?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-11-09 11:18pm

I'm going to watch some american-class TV shows now...

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-11 07:48am

Never put it past the EU- just think of it, if it wasn't for Shield of Lies we would have people arguing for Super-class and we'd only have common sense on our side.

SUPER CLASS GODDAMIT.

My brain hurts ...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-11 01:08pm

I declare meNNis to be a fucking lier.

But meNNis may defend himself and his idiotic opinion.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-12 11:37am

lol... well, i admit i have not seen the movies in quite some time, so perhaps they do not say Imperial-class. But I have read many SW books saying Imp-Class... including multiple in the X-Wing series i can think of off the top of my head.....

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-11-12 11:50am

meNNis wrote:lol... well, i admit i have not seen the movies in quite some time, so perhaps they do not say Imperial-class. But I have read many SW books saying Imp-Class... including multiple in the X-Wing series i can think of off the top of my head.....

We just had a long discussion on this issue (refer to pages 14 to 17). Unless you have some more evidence relating to the discussion it would probably be best to drop the subject.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-12 03:12pm

meNNis wrote:lol... well, i admit i have not seen the movies in quite some time, so perhaps they do not say Imperial-class. But I have read many SW books saying Imp-Class... including multiple in the X-Wing series i can think of off the top of my head.....

They do not say Imperial-class in the films, you fucking lier.

I declare you to be a fucking lier. You may now jump up my ass.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-12 03:14pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
meNNis wrote:lol... well, i admit i have not seen the movies in quite some time, so perhaps they do not say Imperial-class. But I have read many SW books saying Imp-Class... including multiple in the X-Wing series i can think of off the top of my head.....
They do not say Imperial-class in the films, you fucking lier.

I declare you to be a fucking lier. You may now jump up my ass.

Spanky, reread the damn post, don't skim it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-12 03:18pm

The rest of his post only prooves that he has not been reading the thread.

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-13 11:06am

naww i read it. but.......

IMPERIAL-CLASS FOREVER

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-13 11:08am

err... sorry, i refuse to jump in your ass

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-11-13 12:41pm

meNNis wrote:naww i read it. but.......

IMPERIAL-CLASS FOREVER

Bad and childish grammar forever, lets make SW look like a bunch of children who haven't learned to count to ten yet, uh, FOREVER!

meNNis · Post by **meNNis** » 2002-11-13 12:53pm

i saw that coming

oh well FLAME ON

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-13 02:16pm

meNNis wrote:i saw that coming
oh well FLAME ON

No, you are NOT turning this into a flame war.

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