Star Wars: Rebels

[Tychu]

A few months ago, Disney announced that the novelizations are also cannon. Thus re-admitting a good portion of the prequel EU that they recently scrapped

[applejack]

A few months ago, Disney announced that the novelizations are also cannon. Thus re-admitting a good portion of the prequel EU that they recently scrapped

When was this? The only thing outlining the new canon that I'm aware of is this where the new books released after the EU had been relegated to Legends status are the only textual canon.

[Tychu]

A few months ago, Disney announced that the novelizations are also cannon. Thus re-admitting a good portion of the prequel EU that they recently scrapped

When was this? The only thing outlining the new canon that I'm aware of is this where the new books released after the EU had been relegated to Legends status are the only textual canon.

Here's the link http://www.theforce.net/story/front/Yes ... 157749.asp

Sorry I didn't "hide" the link. I'm at work and I'm forced to use a phone

[Mange]

A few months ago, Disney announced that the novelizations are also cannon. Thus re-admitting a good portion of the prequel EU that they recently scrapped

No, you're reading too much into it. As the update on the page you linked to says, the novelizations are canon to the extent where "they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie". Thus, it's not an automatic re-canonization of the EU-portions in the novelizations.

[Havok]

It's the same as it has always been as far as the novelizations go.

[Tychu]

I'm aware that it means it can be contradicted. But as long as they don't, Anakin was still upset he wasn't a master because only Jedi Masters can access the holocrons. The fact that the Lost 20's busts exists in the books means it exists in cannon. I haven't read RotS novelizations in several years but until their backstories are discredited it's the truth!

[Havok]

The Lost 20 busts are in the movie. Or more accurately, the busts that are in the movie are named the Lost 20 in the novelization.

[Rogue 9]

Well, that was actually not too bad, if you ignore the whole child soldiers thing. It's kind of odd that the commandant of the academy and his aide were personally shaking down merchants on the streets in the pilot, but that's probably down to wanting to conserve voice actors and animation models.

[Batman]

Huh. Didn't even notice that first go.
It's not like the 'child soldiers' thing is unheard of in the real world. Interesting training regime they've got, you'd think they'd start out with something a little more basic.
Nobody bats an eye at the cadets wandering about the complex but but as everybody takes them doing tasks like delivering 'paper'work for granted I guess they're expected to be all over the complex as part of their duties. And what's with the kids wearing their helmets all the time?
The sheer ineptitude of the imperial forces-or near-complete absence of any serious defenses-is becoming aggravating.

[The Romulan Republic]

Real militaries make mistakes. And I can accept gross incompetence from the troops on an insignificant world more easily than I could accept it from something like Death Squadron (though it had some fuck ups in the films). And if they make the Empire competent all the time the heroes are going to lose pretty quickly if they regularly go up against the Empire.

[Darth Tanner]

I didn't really understand why the tank stopped being a threat and just sat there once its role in the plot was over. They were literally just stood having a deep emotional moment while it was sat there with its guns.

The empire does come across as quite week though when you can literally just walk up and attack their base and run away afterwards.
Their freighter is pretty good to be able to take on three armed transports and 8 tie fighters on its own though.

And if they make the Empire competent all the time the heroes are going to lose pretty quickly if they regularly go up against the Empire.

Thats what I think the main failing of this show will be, with only the main cast we can never see the empire win or even inflict casualties.. in the Clone Wars clones were able to be wiped out in large numbers so as comical as the droids were on occasion they were still a threat and even allowed victories on occasion... even Jedi could be killed. We can't realistically have that with this show unless they kill the main jedi off at some point.

[FaxModem1]

So, why are the kids, in a military academy, being taught not to trust each other? This seems like a rather bad way to make units. It's good for teaching potential Sith, but seems rather counter-intuitive for making officers that are meant to work as a team.

[Lord Revan]

So, why are the kids, in a military academy, being taught not to trust each other? This seems like a rather bad way to make units. It's good for teaching potential Sith, but seems rather counter-intuitive for making officers that are meant to work as a team.

yeah in that sense SWTOR is much better as "imperial soldiers" seemed to be trained to work like normal soldiers and while only members of Sith order and members of the imperial intelligence are trained to "not trust anyone" as a policy

[Batman]

Despite the weirdness of the test arrangement I could have accepted that as 'expect the unexpected' and 'never rely on anybody but yourself' tests. But the Imperials were apparently approving of Cadet Dickhead actively sabotaging his competitors, which is not something you really want in an eventual military serviceperson.

[Lord Revan]

Despite the weirdness of the test arrangement I could have accepted that as 'expect the unexpected' and 'never rely on anybody but yourself' tests. But the Imperials were apparently approving of Cadet Dickhead actively sabotaging his competitors, which is not something you really want in an eventual military serviceperson.

yeah there's a world of difference between "don't rely on others" and "it's OK to actively sabotage your own team for personal gains", it's kind of frustrating when people think that "evil" militaries can funtion at all while doing something that blatantly stupid, just because they're "evil" and therefore don't care about their servicemen.

Sure leader of an "evil" military wouldn't loose sleep over the casualities, but at the same time a competent military leader (good or evil it doesn't matter) won't throw away his forces just because he can (which making every member of your forces put his own gains above that of the team essentially is), your forces are a resource and one who is wasteful with his resources during wartime will loose. It's kind of like this you won't cry over it if something you need costs a few Euro more then you orginally planned, but at the same time you won't pay more then it's needed just because you can when your resources are limited.

[RogueIce]

So, why are the kids, in a military academy, being taught not to trust each other? This seems like a rather bad way to make units. It's good for teaching potential Sith, but seems rather counter-intuitive for making officers that are meant to work as a team.

The standouts were being recommended to the Inquisitor. This is, from what I could tell, standard procedure. Also, the "tests" involved a lot of fancy acrobatics and jumping around, things not terribly useful for your standard soldier, but something Jedi were rather known for.

You do the math on this one.

[FaxModem1]

So, why are the kids, in a military academy, being taught not to trust each other? This seems like a rather bad way to make units. It's good for teaching potential Sith, but seems rather counter-intuitive for making officers that are meant to work as a team.

The standouts were being recommended to the Inquisitor. This is, from what I could tell, standard procedure. Also, the "tests" involved a lot of fancy acrobatics and jumping around, things not terribly useful for your standard soldier, but something Jedi were rather known for.

You do the math on this one.

If it was a dark Jedi or Sith academy, sure. But this one seemed to be focused on teaching the kids paperwork, gophering, rifle shooting, and vehicle operation. So it seems more focused on teaching soldiers than on teaching force wielding warriors.

[Lord Revan]

So, why are the kids, in a military academy, being taught not to trust each other? This seems like a rather bad way to make units. It's good for teaching potential Sith, but seems rather counter-intuitive for making officers that are meant to work as a team.

The standouts were being recommended to the Inquisitor. This is, from what I could tell, standard procedure. Also, the "tests" involved a lot of fancy acrobatics and jumping around, things not terribly useful for your standard soldier, but something Jedi were rather known for.

You do the math on this one.

If it was a dark Jedi or Sith academy, sure. But this one seemed to be focused on teaching the kids paperwork, gophering, rifle shooting, and vehicle operation. So it seems more focused on teaching soldiers than on teaching force wielding warriors.

I dunno how it's in rebels but back in legendaries sith were still seen as bad guys by the empire at large, so it wouldn't be unlikely that potential Dark Jedi are trained this way keep the apparence that the Sith or the Jedi aren't coming back.

[RogueIce]

If it was a dark Jedi or Sith academy, sure. But this one seemed to be focused on teaching the kids paperwork, gophering, rifle shooting, and vehicle operation. So it seems more focused on teaching soldiers than on teaching force wielding warriors.

I dunno how it's in rebels but back in legendaries sith were still seen as bad guys by the empire at large, so it wouldn't be unlikely that potential Dark Jedi are trained this way keep the apparence that the Sith or the Jedi aren't coming back.

Indeed. Jedi are the Enemy. You can't exactly be open about "The Empire's Dark Jedi School For Gifted Youngsters" you know.

OTOH not all of them will be capable, so they get taught other stuff in the Empire's JROTC or whatever you want to call it. I doubt this was at all basic training, though: six cadets per two instructors is hardly the way you go about mass producing expendable cannon fodder. If anything these kids were on track for officer-esque positions or whatever, so the whole culture of backstabbing your way to the top makes a little more sense, as ambition is prided over all. That and subtly introducing Dark Side methodology to those kids who do end up with the Inquisitor.

[tezunegari]

At first thought it would make sense that Palpatine / the Empire is adding certain tests to its education program that are specifically meant to fail normal students but have force-sensitives excel at them.
But then again, why such difficult tests when the Republic had a blood test for force-sensitivity / midichlorian count?

I wonder if the Inquisitor could tell that Zare, the guy staying at the Academy, was lying or not.
Zare was one of the outstanding students after all and possibly a force-sensitive.

[biostem]

All they needed to do to increase credibility was to throw in a line about this being an elite school - not just another factory for churning out stormtroopers.

I wonder what kind of no-background-checks admission process this academy has, if not one, but two cadets were using it to sneak into the Empire's ranks.

The same goes for how a quick paint job/smearing on of dirt was enough to get Chopper into the facility as well. I mean, if this was presented as a back woods po-dunk academy that nobody cared about, then maybe I could buy it, but Kallus and the Inquisitor made personal appearances at this facility.

[RogueIce]

But then again, why such difficult tests when the Republic had a blood test for force-sensitivity / midichlorian count?

Well, if testing positive for "Jedi potential" is a quick trip to disappearing overnight with nobody daring to ask questions, it is not inconceivable that the Empire would expect parents and even the medical staff to try and avoid, obfuscate or outright fabricate the results. OTOH if they can set up some kind of "Imperial Adventure Training Camp" where the young kids inadvertently reveal their potential - and are then sent off for "special advanced training" or use the presented cover story of "well they ran away sorry about that" - that would sidestep that problem.

I mean I guess they could just do a blood test as part of their processing but maybe the Empire doesn't want the midichlorian test being widespread for whatever reason. The now non-canon novel Death Star indicated they were actively suppressing knowledge of that field, and a doctor sending an inquiry about them got an alert sent to Lord Vader himself. So that may or may not still be the case here.

I mean, if this was presented as a back woods po-dunk academy that nobody cared about, then maybe I could buy it, but Kallus and the Inquisitor made personal appearances at this facility.

In Kallus' case it's easily rationalized that he's just using the office space for his Rebel hunt. He didn't seem particularly interested in the cadets during his brief interactions with them. And the Inquisitor only shows up after he was notified about the cadets with potential.

[seanrobertson]

I have enjoyed the episodes I've seen, even with the obvious Disney influences (eyes, expressions).

I was disappointed to see the TIE Fighter predecessor displaying such lousy firepower, though. Proper TIE Fighters can penetrate the shields of A, X and Y-Wings with a brief fusillade, yes?

We saw the far lighter A-Wing withstand a point-defense turbolaser hit, albeit that hit might've made that A's pilot realize that, if he accomplished nothing else worthwhile, he'd best crash into the Executor's bridge tower

... still, the TINY A-Wing withstood a turbolaser hit that had to be more powerful than anything a single TIE could throw at it.

I reckon you good folk see where I'm trying to go with this

[Batman]

At which point in Rebels would the TIE pilots have 'wanted' to use maximum firepower though? The preview episode introducing the kid had a crippled TIE fighter sitting maybe a hundred metres from its intended target. Would you be firing KT bursts in this situation?
All of the TIE action we saw was either in space against a shielded target (making firepower next to impossible to determine) or close to the ground in-atmosphere, where using maximum firepower would achieve a 200% kill rate (i.e. both you and the target are dead). And that's without the Rebels avoiding to kill civilians and The Imps avoiding to hurt their own.

[Irbis]

We saw the far lighter A-Wing withstand a point-defense turbolaser hit, albeit that hit might've made that A's pilot realize that, if he accomplished nothing else worthwhile, he'd best crash into the Executor's bridge tower

Can you remind me where it was? I just re-watched BoE scene, but that was A-Wing dodging shots and following X-Wing exploding from single hit. In fact, I don't recall a single scene in TOT where non-capital shields stopped more than single hit from anything.

Well, that was actually not too bad, if you ignore the whole child soldiers thing. It's kind of odd that the commandant of the academy and his aide were personally shaking down merchants on the streets in the pilot, but that's probably down to wanting to conserve voice actors and animation models.

The worst thing is, the Empire had organization that could be both behind child soldiers, shaking down merchants, and incompetence. That was Compnor - and it was seen as laughable by real Imperial military. What the series decided instead was to delete Imperial army/Compnor/navy and make supposed elite (Stormtroopers and fighter pilots) basic troopers, as incompetent as Compnor at its worst.

Doing so butchers any sort of suspense - there are no 'real' elite units that could threaten the protagonists in tense episodes, everyone is incompetent lackey. One wonders how Empire managed to oppress anyone or even survive as long as 25 years...