Rise of Skywalkers reviews (Spoilers in this thread)

[Patroklos]

There are multiple criticisms of that seen other than the ability to kinetically move with the force. She survives the explosion destroying the bridge and then the following extremely violent decompression without a scratch. She for unknown reasons just hybernates in vacuum for an unknown time. When she wakes up she is being quite casual as if despite having forces to address the situation the situation is not the slightest bit worrrying.The ability to do this is EXTREMELY useful throughout the franchise. We have often seen Jedi, powerful ones, actively protect themselves from, stymied by, and fear exposure to vacuum.

I think all if the above is problematic but my real issue is:

1. There is no buildup to Leia’s ability to do this. Previously we have seen characters either work hard to achieve even basic force capabilities or they are introduced off the bat as seasoned force experts. Even Rey, who I roundly critisize as a Mary Sue and stand by that assessment, had some ramp up. Her story writing sin wasn’t zero ramp up, just a needlessly rushed one.

In Leia’s case she was always presented, in movie and the EU, as a force sensitive but undeveloped. She can feel emotions and communicate semi-actively with other force sensitives, but little beyond that. TROS changes this a bit, but that doesn’t help a viewer of TLJ in the moment.

2. The other characters viewing it are completely taken by surprise by it. These guys have been supposedly fighting a desperate fight with Leia against the FO for years, yet apparently this level of force utilization never came in handy. We all know that’s BS. If she had that level of power before it would have been evident.

3. Even if you dismiss all the above and accept this ability as proper and good the execution was just silly. It looks aweful. It’s a visual medium, that really does matter.

[NecronLord]

Honestly while I find the worldbuilding of the new movies damnably weak, with the Prequels and the Sequels I really don't think anything would actually make the fans happy with new Star Wars movies. The expectations are so increasingly diverse and so increasingly vast that I think anything being pitched as 'An Episode' bears such a burden of expectation no writer or director could actually satisfy.

[Knife]

Honestly while I find the worldbuilding of the new movies damnably weak, with the Prequels and the Sequels I really don't think anything would actually make the fans happy with new Star Wars movies. The expectations are so increasingly diverse and so increasingly vast that I think anything being pitched as 'An Episode' bears such a burden of expectation no writer or director could actually satisfy.

While true, I think with some competence and vision you could have gotten a 90-10 spit or something like that and not a 50-50 or 60-40 split in fandom. Not sure where the actual line is but it sure isn't 90-10. Or in other words, sure you can't make everyone happy, but they could have gone about it in a way to make way more people happy about it than they did.

[Gandalf]

I think TFA was the "try to make everybody happy" film. People weren't happy.

[Knife]

I think TFA was the "try to make everybody happy" film. People weren't happy.

Meh, most the bitching I heard from TFA was "I was just a reshoot of ANH".

[Tribble]

I found Leia 'flying' through space to be the LEAST offensive misrepresentation of the Force in the new trilogy.

I mean, if the Jedi can lift starfighters and larger, then moving themselves in a Zero-G environment, towards a larger object, is rather tame by comparison.

Plus you have Obi-Wan and Anakin battling for an an extended period on a volcanic planet with no ill effects, at least until Anakins limbs are chopped off. Between the heat the lava and the fumes they should have been deader than disco, especially towards the end where they were literally feet away from the lava flow while unshielded by any tech.


I didn’t have any problems with the idea of Leia surviving in a vacuum long enough to get herself to safety, though I felt the execution was silly to watch.

[LadyTevar]

Plus you have Obi-Wan and Anakin battling for an an extended period on a volcanic planet with no ill effects, at least until Anakins limbs are chopped off. Between the heat the lava and the fumes they should have been deader than disco, especially towards the end where they were literally feet away from the lava flow while unshielded by any tech.


I didn’t have any problems with the idea of Leia surviving in a vacuum long enough to get herself to safety, though I felt the execution was silly to watch.

Also note, doing so was what put her in the coma to recover. Just like Baby Yoda can do all these Force tricks, but then he's down and out for a time because it overwhelmed him.

[bilateralrope]

I've got two questions:

How racist is JJ Abrams ?

In ROS he sidelined Rose. In Star Trek TOS, Khan was played by the mexican actor Ricardo Montalbán. In Into Darkness, JJ Abrams went with Benedict Cumberbatch. That looks like part of a worrying pattern, but I don't know enough about his other movies to judge.


Where should Rey have hidden Luke and Leia's lightsabers ?
I understand why so many people are complaining about hiding them on Tatooine. I just can't think of a better location.

[Solauren]

Back at the First Jedi Temple.

OR, used them as practice sabers for her own apprentices. Very symbolic, to be trained using those sabers.

[Galvatron]

Where should Rey have hidden Luke and Leia's lightsabers ?
I understand why so many people are complaining about hiding them on Tatooine. I just can't think of a better location.

Maybe Padme's tomb on Naboo, but I see no reason why Shmi Skywalker's grave site wasn't the most appropriate. After all, Alderaan was nothing but an asteroid field and at least Luke grew up at the Lars homestead.

[Ralin]

And...you know...it's implied that she's going to be living there for the foreseeable future. Makes sense that she'd hide them someplace she can retrieve them without too much trouble. Not sure why she would need to make some big symbolic gesture out of where she decides to put them.

[bilateralrope]

And...you know...it's implied that she's going to be living there for the foreseeable future. Makes sense that she'd hide them someplace she can retrieve them without too much trouble. Not sure why she would need to make some big symbolic gesture out of where she decides to put them.

I didn't get that implication. What I took was that she built herself a lightsaber, so she planned to travel to places where she might need to use it.

But it's a very depressing implication. She helped save the galaxy, then decides to live in a middle of nowhere on a farm where the money making equipment has been unused and exposed to looting for decades. That seems a terrible place to live, even if you like deserts. Not even attempting to continue the Jedi.

[Galvatron]

Unless I missed something, I didn't get the idea she was there to stay either. I'd say it was more of a pilgrimage than anything.

[Ralin]

Seemed obvious to me.

.

But it's a very depressing implication. She helped save the galaxy, then decides to live in a middle of nowhere on a farm where the money making equipment has been unused and exposed to looting for decades. That seems a terrible place to live, even if you like deserts. Not even attempting to continue the Jedi.

Well...she grew up in a place like that. Apparently she decided she likes it. Doesn't mean she can't leave or accept students who come to her. There are worse ways to absorb everything that happened.

[Vendetta]

And...you know...it's implied that she's going to be living there for the foreseeable future. Makes sense that she'd hide them someplace she can retrieve them without too much trouble. Not sure why she would need to make some big symbolic gesture out of where she decides to put them.

Why do you think replicating the shot just before Luke leaves home for the wider galaxy is implying that Rey is going to stay there forever?

When she just learned in the exact same movie not to do that?

[Adam Reynolds]

At the same time it felt like Johnson was imitating the Originals. Kylo killing Snoke was a blatant Vader ripoff among other things. The Leia poppins thing was just dumb as well.

Even though he was, at least in terms of the trappings, he was still out to subvert expectations in terms of the story. Kylo killing Snoke without turning back to the Light was what made that scene work. The fact that he also killed his superior in the same sense as Vader doesn't change this. Likewise, Leia Poppins might have been dumb, but her being the one to shoot Poe with a stun blast was an excellent way to drive home the point about his arc in that movie. High risk heroic missions aren't actually a good strategy.

[Ralin]

Why do you think replicating the shot just before Luke leaves home for the wider galaxy is implying that Rey is going to stay there forever?

When she just learned in the exact same movie not to do that?

Because she spent most of her life living as a scavenger in a desert on a planet that was mostly desert, so it makes sense that if she wants to do something post-war she might find going back to that a good way to enjoy some peace and quiet and a comfortable routine. It's weird, but so are people who like hiking.

What about that do you think implies she's going to 'stay there forever?' Unlike Luke she would presumably tell her friends where she was going and how to get in touch.

[ray245]

Honestly while I find the worldbuilding of the new movies damnably weak, with the Prequels and the Sequels I really don't think anything would actually make the fans happy with new Star Wars movies. The expectations are so increasingly diverse and so increasingly vast that I think anything being pitched as 'An Episode' bears such a burden of expectation no writer or director could actually satisfy.

Part of the fun with SW is that Lucas created a sandbox for fans to play in. The sequel era is an utterly boring sandbox.

The sandboxes JJ Abrams created tend to be shit

[MKSheppard]

So you know that Corellian Corvette shown rising above the trees from the Resistance Base in ROS?

Turns out it's an old friend.....

Wookiepedia via Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary

Many years after the end of the Galactic Civil War, a former Imperial senator discovered the remains of the Tantive IV lying decrepit in a hangar in the Yarma system. Sympathetic to Leia's cause, the senator repaired the former consular ship and returned it to her as a gift. Leia used the vessel as her personal flagship from the Resistance base on Ajan Kloss. Given the lack of barracks on the moon, most of the Resistance support crew lived and slept aboard the Tantive IV when not on duty.[14] The starship was later used by the Resistance in the final battle against the Sith on Exegol.[12]

[The Romulan Republic]

The ST didn’t rehabilitate the prequels. These will take their place is a distant spot behind the OT. I am not sure which will be considered worse between the prequels and ST. The ST are better made films in my opinion.

That may be your view, but I've seen a lot less hostility toward the PT since the trolls and bashers found a new target. I've even seen people argue that the PT was better as a way of attacking the ST. So yes, the PT's reputation has benefited, and I expect the ST to benefit from the next slate of films in the same way, because this is, to some extent, what the Star Wars fandom does- savagely bash whatever's new as ruining the franchise, then eventually grow to like it and move on to hating the next new thing.

I've got two questions:

How racist is JJ Abrams ?

In ROS he sidelined Rose. In Star Trek TOS, Khan was played by the mexican actor Ricardo Montalbán. In Into Darkness, JJ Abrams went with Benedict Cumberbatch. That looks like part of a worrying pattern, but I don't know enough about his other movies to judge.

I've seen no indications of him being overtly racist- more likely its the kind of subtle, pervasive, lacking-in-self-awareness latent racism that you often see from privileged people who then react with shock and outrage if you tell them that they're being racist.

The OT is and always will be the bread and butter of the Star Wars brand. I expect that the Obi-Wan and (especially) the Cassian Andor series will both have a distinct OT feel to them as well, just like The Mandalorian does.

So people can decry "OT fanboyism" all they want, but that's where the money is. Denying that reality and expecting Disney to follow suit is just ridiculous.

If that's where the money is, then why is Solo the only Star Wars film not to turn turn a profit at the box office?

The fact is, both the PT and ST have strong followings of younger fans. But if Star Wars has failed to more effectively grow a wider fanbase, its likely due in part to the OT purists dominating the fandom, and actively working to marginalize, bash, and drive out any alternative interpretation.

But this is what the OT purist fanboys want- for the OT to be all that Star Wars is or ever can be, and for everything that follows to be nothing but an endless aping of it. This does not actually honour the OT, which succeeded in part because it was something new and innovative. All it does is ensure that the OT becomes not a source of inspiration but a millstone around the franchise's neck, and that Star Wars can only ever grow smaller, not larger.

Ah well. Eventually the people who grew up with the OT will be dead or in nursing homes, and maybe then we can get something new.

[Knife]

At the same time it felt like Johnson was imitating the Originals. Kylo killing Snoke was a blatant Vader ripoff among other things. The Leia poppins thing was just dumb as well.

Even though he was, at least in terms of the trappings, he was still out to subvert expectations in terms of the story. Kylo killing Snoke without turning back to the Light was what made that scene work. The fact that he also killed his superior in the same sense as Vader doesn't change this. Likewise, Leia Poppins might have been dumb, but her being the one to shoot Poe with a stun blast was an excellent way to drive home the point about his arc in that movie. High risk heroic missions aren't actually a good strategy.

Considering the sequence of events in that movie, you can make an argument that the safe route of strategy also sucks. In fact, you could call Leia's management of the Resistance into serious question over the course of the 3 movies. The fact that in universe she was a Galactic Hero and out of universe she is an OT fan favorite probably saves her, let alone Fisher died and so criticism will probably be at a minimum. But as a Hero of the Galaxy...

1) What ever influence she had building the NR, something failed that she has to take some blame for since the NR was shit and fell so easily to the FO.

2) While observant enough to see the threat of the FO and get some resources together to form a Resistance, those resources were utterly wasted since the FO could build a planet sized super weapon nobody new about as their home base and attack the NR with ease. What exactly were they resisting? Hello recon? Was the big plan just boarder skirmishes? Hello spy network? Seriously massive failure in leadership to not find out the FO was a least building something huge like that.

3) As being a former member of the Alliance, how the hell does Leia, General of the Resistance, not have a rapid evacuation plan set up for her main base? How the hell do you let your only large cruiser sit in orbit with it's gas tank on empty right before a major operation like the attack on Starkiller base? Why wasn't half the base already evac'd as a safety procedure as they launched the attack on Starkiller base?

4) As a former member of the Alliance, why would you have all your resources at D'Qar and not spread around to prevent exactly what happened?

5) The plan was set up with Poe's Xwing and the bombers, if you hated the plan, you should have not greenlit the plan. You don't bicker over command decisions over the open comms. If you recall the bombers when they are literally almost over the drop zone and already have enemy aircraft up, you're not saving anyone. That whole conflict was silly and unnecessary. Her demoting him was ok, but the scene was forced and dumb. If people are more important than equipment and ships, move the cruiser in range and open up, let the cruiser take some hits to cover your retreat. Cover your damned fighters. Or if you're a shitty tactician, stick with strategy and let your tacticians do their jobs.

6) By the end of General Solo's (Organa's, don't remember which family name she took, think it was Solo) tenure of the Head of the Resistance, it was decimated, down to a hundred or so peeps, resourced down to hardly anything but a squadron or so of fighters and her old CR 90. The Resistance was crushed, the Republic folded like a lawn chair and was steam rolled by the FO.

You can say she was involved in training Rey, though since she never finished her training, I don't see how far along a novice could bring a novice. She did bring about a personal victory and had the chance to help redeem her son, which did have great consequences to the galaxy at large. But as a military leader, wow she was horrible. Johnson may have been subverting everything else but maybe he should have looked at Leia as well. I think he unintentionally did it, making a fake conflict with Poe and Holdo. JJ didn't help with trying to mimic the OT with a small plucky resistance in the first place. But damn did they portray her leadership as absolute shit and only worked because she was a Great Legend. They all almost followed that great legend to death. Act of plot saved some of the good guys at the end. I wonder if, as a Force Ghost, you get to ponder all the people you got killed out of stupidity and incompetence.

Anyway, I'm as mad at the treatment of Leia as any other character of the OT that got drug through that shit series of sequels.

[Knife]

If that's where the money is, then why is Solo the only Star Wars film not to turn turn a profit at the box office?

Because it wasn't that great of the movie. Rogue One, however, made over a billion dollars world wide. It is where the money is, but not like you can make a RomCom about two people living in an apartment on Coruscant and slap a SW title on it and make a billion dollars. You still have to make a decent movie.

Hell, if anything, the sequels have made some SW fans more selective in watching stuff. Since the re-release of SW in the 90's, I've watched every SW movie on opening day until TROS. I had no control over when I watched movies as a kid in the 70's and 80's. But damned sure I was some of the first when I was an adult. Solo wasn't bad, but was sure wan't good. TLJ totally disgusts me and still have not watched it again, making it the only SW movie besides the current one in theaters I've only watched once and not dozens of times. I, and I'm pretty sure other SW fans, aren't going to run right out and pay money on opening night anymore for SW movies. Watched ROS almost a week after it was out, mostly just to complete the series and be done with it. If/when they make another movie, not running right out and watch it. They've lost my trust. Once it's out and if it actually looks good, I'll watch it. But no more blind faith. Not rewarding Lucas Films and Disney for shit anymore.

The fact is, both the PT and ST have strong followings of younger fans. But if Star Wars has failed to more effectively grow a wider fanbase, its likely due in part to the OT purists dominating the fandom, and actively working to marginalize, bash, and drive out any alternative interpretation.

LOL. I love the divisiveness. You OT Fanboys. LOL. You OT purists. You do get that you're a FANBOY too, right? You're on Stardestroyer.net discussing Starwars. Your a Fanboy/girl. I also think a certain amount of confirmation bias goes into these discussions. You can, and not you personally but us generally, can always hunt down on the web some jackass with a shit view of the thing who posted something or made a video, or commented on someone else's video. But if you were at comiccon or something, it's not like large fights break out over it. It doesn't tear local chapters of 501 apart.

But this is what the OT purist fanboys want- for the OT to be all that Star Wars is or ever can be, and for everything that follows to be nothing but an endless aping of it. This does not actually honour the OT, which succeeded in part because it was something new and innovative. All it does is ensure that the OT becomes not a source of inspiration but a millstone around the franchise's neck, and that Star Wars can only ever grow smaller, not larger.

Ah well. Eventually the people who grew up with the OT will be dead or in nursing homes, and maybe then we can get something new.

You're a bitter ass troll, every bit as toxic and mean as you accuse other fans of being. It's almost funny you don't recognize it, mostly just sad though. The OT was/is king because it was a good story and it was told well with few problems. Sure, there were some problems and it's not like it's a masterpiece of cinema, but for the most part it told a simple but good story with characters that grew and wrapped up most of the story lines at the end with good and emotional satisfying ends.

For the record, I don't think the PT was bad either and I'm one of those evil OT purists. They weren't as solid as movies at the OT was, but still entertaining and fun to watch. Hell, I'll even defend TPM as a decent movie, though I won't defend Jar Jar. The only real problem I've ever had with TPM was that out of the 6 or so hours they have to tell the tale about the fall of Anakin Skywalker, 2 of those hours was when he was an 8 year old kid. Leaving only 4 hours to develop adult Anakin into a character you like that then falls to evil. As we all know, that felt rushed and not as satisfying as it could have been. Things like that, that did not happen in the OT, make the PT lesser. Yeah, yeah, Leia as Luke's sister was rushed but only served the plot to piss Luke off with he duel with Vader and as an excuse as to why Leia chose Han over Luke. Without that tid bit Vader could have just as easily taunted Luke with wanting to go down and kill his lover Leia to set Luke off on a rage.

As for something new, you got it, and it was bad. You got a trilogy by committee and it was horrible. If you liked it, good on you. I'm happy for you. But as I mentioned before, stop being pissed I'm sending my steak back because it's not cooked the way I like it even though you like it that way. You're not sitting at my table and not paying for my dinner.

[The Romulan Republic]

[snip Knife's ramblings]

Oh look, another bitter, invective-filled rant personally attacking me, for which I will then probably be blamed. Yawn.

Your claiming that I wanted "a trilogy by committee" is a particularly ludicrous line, given that that's exactly what I've been arguing against throughout (namely a trilogy written by a "committee" of a million fans).

I'm not telling you what movies you're allowed to like. I'm not even addressing you at all here. You're the one who seemingly feels compelled to follow me around from topic to topic, treating any criticism I make of any element of the fandom as a personal attack on you (methinks he doth protest to much) and then going on the attack against me.

Seriously, I wasn't even addressing you. If you see any criticism of the OT purist element of the fandom as an attack on you, that's on you. Just like if you see any criticism of racism and misogyny in the fandom as an attack on you, that's on you. Not on me. Its not directed at you, unless you share those views, so the next time I criticize some element of the fandom and you go off on a rant about it and how I'm attacking you, I will reply with "Confession accepted".

[Knife]

I'm not following you, you're in every thread and this is the new SW movie thread, you egotistical ass. Also, love you how cast a wide net calling all OT fans toxic, racist, etc... but when called on it, you say "I didn't mean you personally". But TRR, it's all you ever say. In every fucking thread about SW, it's all you say. How can anyone NOT think you're talking about them. If you got the balls to snipe at peep's at least have the balls to own up to it when called on them.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm not following you, you're in every thread and this is the new SW movie thread, you egotistical ass. Also, love you how cast a wide net calling all OT fans toxic, racist, etc...

I have never, ever said that all OT fans are toxic, or racist, or anything else. Ever. Hell, I like the OT myself- I just don't like it to the exclusion of all other content. This is a view that has been attributed to me, then repeated so often that now everyone just assumes its what I'm saying.

To the rest of your rant against me, I am not the topic of this thread, and I will not facilitate your efforts to make me the topic by engaging with it further.