Ep3 review thread SPOILERS

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 03:38am

Superman wrote:
weemadando wrote:OK - Darth Plagueis was most definately Sideous' master.

Just watch Palpatine's face when he reaches the part of the story about the apprentice killing him one night. Motherfucker smirks so hard that it would be impossible to say that it wasn't him that capped a certain figure from "Sith legend".
Right, which also leads me to believe that he COULD HAVE CREATED Anakin. I guess it can't be proven, but it's a solid theory.

Palpatine ADMITS he doesn't have the ability, you fuck nut.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-05-20 03:42am

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Wrong, Gunray really did think he was going to Dooku for help and away from Sidious; he found out Dooku was Sith and Sidious his master after the war began and they had no choice.

Which source is that?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 03:43am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Grievous' anger was artificially amplified and was also vigourously trained in lightsabre combat by Dooku. He was also given an experimental midichlorian transfusion from the corpse of Sifo Dias, as a test bed to create an artificial Sith, IIRC, although there doesn't seem to be much result from that aspect.
That story is not canon.

Huh, it isn't?

Meh, oh well. Hoodwinked...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 03:45am

Darth Wong wrote:My reactions:
I believe that Darth Plagius created Anakin through the Force, and was eventually planning to replace his apprentice with him. His apprentice somehow got wind of this and decided to end this little scheme. After terminating his master, Palpatine did not know where this manufactured child was located, so this remained a mystery to him until a Force-sensitive boy with a mysterious background was discovered by the Jedi on Tatooine. At that point, he decided to watch his career with great interest.

This is not possible. TPM takes place when Anakin is nine years old. Plagueis isn't making Anakin beyond the grave, so he must have been alive nine years before TPM. Problem is that there are only two Sith, and Maul is not nine years old in TPM, despite having been trained from a very young age. Plagueis had to be murdered before Maul begins training, and that has to be quite a bit more than nine years before TPM. Plagueis could not have produced Anakin.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-20 03:55am

Fresh back from the theater. My view of the movie.. it was quite good. But hilarious too, unintentinally. I read out the opening 'flying text' with 50's announcer voice and it fit well. Lesse...

I like the attempts to match it with the original trilogy, but a few things. Anakin's actor reminds me of Calculon from Futurama. Because he has... ACTING..... TALENT!

Also, after Padme was said to die... I liked his 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' the theater broke out laughing.

But lesse. One thing bugs me. Yoda told Obi-wan about Qui-Gon's spirit... what the hell was that about?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 03:57am

Vympel wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Wrong, Gunray really did think he was going to Dooku for help and away from Sidious; he found out Dooku was Sith and Sidious his master after the war began and they had no choice.
Which source is that?

LoE.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-05-20 03:58am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Grievous' anger was artificially amplified and was also vigourously trained in lightsabre combat by Dooku. He was also given an experimental midichlorian transfusion from the corpse of Sifo Dias, as a test bed to create an artificial Sith, IIRC, although there doesn't seem to be much result from that aspect.
That story is not canon.
Huh, it isn't?

Meh, oh well. Hoodwinked...

The whole book is Infinites in the SW Tales sense. It MAY become canon, and maybe it will, but it doesn't count yet....

Did you not notice the whole Darth Maul comes to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan and has a pair of robot legs story?

Silver Jedi · Post by **Silver Jedi** » 2005-05-20 04:04am

Does anyone have any thoughts on how they will reconcile Padme's death in childbirth with Leia's lines from ROTJ (about remembering her mother)?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-05-20 04:17am

Silver Jedi wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on how they will reconcile Padme's death in childbirth with Leia's lines from ROTJ (about remembering her mother)?

Bail's wife could have been considered her mother perhaps? Right? Since she was given over at only a few days old.

Also, one thing. When Palpatine invited Anakin to talk to him first... did anyone laugh and yell out 'BLITZBALL!' at the show they were watching?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-05-20 04:21am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: That story is not canon.
Huh, it isn't?

Meh, oh well. Hoodwinked...
The whole book is Infinites in the SW Tales sense. It MAY become canon, and maybe it will, but it doesn't count yet....

Did you not notice the whole Darth Maul comes to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan and has a pair of robot legs story?

I knew about it, but didn't read it. I read the Grievous story seperately at MF.com before the comic was actually released, IIRC, and had forgotten since then that they were in the same issue.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2005-05-20 04:25am

Lets get the few bad things out of the way first.
Gripes

- Too much exposition at the end. The binary sunset thing was OK, but overall I would have liked that whole sequence from the birth of the twins forward to be about ten minutes shorter, so I could leave the theater on a Darth Vader high.

- Qui-Gon. Come on, either give us more than that, or don't put it in there at all. It feels so shoe-horned. I wanted to see a force-ghost.

- That opening space battle, while OK, did not seem very all-out to me. I think I was hoping for some hugeass turbolasers like those on the side of Star Destroyers being fired.

- "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!1!1111one+shiftone@#!"

Things I Liked

- Everything about Palpatine. My mom thought the cackling glee of deformed-Sidious in the fight with Yoda was hammy, but I thought it was excellent. I keep seeing an alternate version of one of his lines as "A long time waiting for this I have been." [/mocking glee]

- Mace Windu. Not because I think he is a BFM, but because he shows more clearly than Yoda or OB1 the institutional dysfunctions of the Jedi Order. "Lets overthrow a duly-elected head of state because we don't like his policies and we think he belongs to a rival religion! That will protect the democratic process real well, and won't play into Palpy's hands at all!"

On a side note, I anticipate much groaning in response to brain-dead reviewers comparing the Jedi to the "evil activist judges."

- Darth Vader. Cold, ruthless, methodical, and evil (though still a little angsty), just as we all wanted him to be. His psychosis at the end with his exchanges between himself and Padme and Kenobi really work for me.
"I can overthrow the Chancellor. And then, Padme, we can rule the galaxy together, make things the way we always wanted them to be! Don't you betray me."

- Order 66, Yoda's response, Obi-Wan's grief. The younglings. So real, so tragic. It helped me understand Obi-Wan's behavior in the OT much more clearly.

- Anakin's coronation. It's good precisely because Palpy is being over-the-top. Those who say it's unrealistic for Anakin to go with it after this are missing the point; like DW said, he's not twirling a mustache, he's going "Oh shit." The masks are off, and Skywalker's screwed.

- Screw you all, I liked the Padme/Anakin scenes. They induced some cringes at the beginning, but improved steadily throughout IMHO. Mostly because you could see how much was not being said. Anakin says "This is a blessing" but you can see that he's thinking "I'm fucked." Anakin talks about beauty and bright futures but you can see his apprehension. The only Anakin who talks straightly to Padme, revealing his true heart to her, is Darth Vader, and he crushes her trachea.

- Come to think of it, I liked HC's character in general, aside from the aforementioned "NOOOOO!!!!!" His angsty, brooding nature fits in well with this story; he's clearly struggling, until the very end when he goes batshit. I will never, ever think of the post-Windu version of that character by any name other than Darth Vader.

- Every duel in the movie, with the possible exception of the first one. Fantastic-looking swordplay.

Other Thoughts

- The first half of the movie is like an enormous joke set up at the expense of the main characters. Here they are, the heroes of the Republic, trusting each other, bravely fighting side-by-side and exchanging the lovely banter we all expect from Star Wars heroes. Never for a moment do they imagine how their head-of-state is a sorceror, how their enemies are hoaxes, how their war is a set-up, how their friends are programmed to coldly murder them, how their hero is a sociopath, and how fucked eight ways from Christmas they were before the movie even began. It seemed to exist solely to make it clear how little they expect what happens to them; even the soundtrack plays into this theme.

- I identified at least three points where I knew that if the good guys made one little decision a little differently, the entire tragedy would have turned upside-down. First, with Mace Windu. Come on dude, don't leave Anakin hanging here. Bring him along, give him a chance to confront his manipulator as a brother Jedi. Make him feel like one. Second, also Mace Windu. Don't kill the guy; can't you see how much more important it is to keep Skywalker on your side? Your violating both the Republic and your own Jedi Code here, and turning your messiah into a monster while your at it. Show some professionalism. Finally, Obi-Wan. I'm not thinking of his hiding in Padme's ship, I'm thinking about the end of the battle, where Vader is lying on the ground, defeated, seemingly about to cry, and Obi-Wan leaves him to die. Now I know, taking him with him would just enable the Emperor to track you, but the sentimental side of me wanted so badly for Obi-Wan to pick Vader up and go "I have not, and will not, betray you, Anakin." These things didn't harm the movie in my estimation; they made it all the more tragic. I will never see Vader the same way again.

- When Palpy announces the formation of the Empire, he says something that I didn't quite hear. It came after "... the First Galactic Empire!" He seemed to be just mumbling, even though he was shouting. Anyone catch what it was he said?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-05-20 04:28am

This is not possible. TPM takes place when Anakin is nine years old. Plagueis isn't making Anakin beyond the grave, so he must have been alive nine years before TPM. Problem is that there are only two Sith, and Maul is not nine years old in TPM, despite having been trained from a very young age. Plagueis had to be murdered before Maul begins training, and that has to be quite a bit more than nine years before TPM. Plagueis could not have produced Anakin.

Well...we don't really know through what mechanism any theoretical Force-conception would work; it could be that after intiating it it took several years before the impregnated woman actually conceived.

I wouldn't say there's any real evidence for it, but it'd be a nice thematic touch.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2005-05-20 05:17am

This movie clearly ranks with the OT. The dialouge is right, the pace was right (although too fast at times), and the story telling was right. This time, there's more emphasis on the characters with the battles as the back drop, as the OT was. Going in with no expecations, I walked out pleased to know that this would be a great ending chapter to the entire Star Wars series.

Things I enjoyed:

1. The space battle was great, the opening very grandiose. I was expecting something more like a traditional battle other than melee but knowing that the Separatists were trying to escape cleared that one up.

2. The Battle of Kashyyk was amazing, albeit short. My audience laughed at the tarzan roar. I loved seeing the camo clonetroopers with scout trooper armour, all dug in.

3. The initial conference between Anakin and Palpatine was very well done. The lighting and cinematography was beautiful, showing the two walk down a hallway towards the camera as only their black silouhette becomes visible.

4. Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship was so well done that by later, you could really actually feel the hurt. Seeing Anakin burn alive was rather gruesome and sad. Here, a once proud man and Jedi was nothing more than a torso, clinging to his dear life.

5. The Yoda/Palpatine fight scene. Oh god. Yoda's force attack on the royal guards must've been quite strong, to have completely knocked them out. That picked up a few laughs.

Things that irked me:

1. The Frankenstein/Vader scene. Was a little too....comical. The "Noooooo" part needs no explainging.

2. Some of the romance dialouge was bothersome but it wasn't really that bad. In retrospect, it was ok.

3. I was a little irked at the quick pace from Coruscant to Mustafar. The time frame was within a matter of hours.

Overall, a very fine ending to the Star Wars saga. The Tatooine sunset was beautiful. I couldn't help but feel genuinely sad.[

Predator · Post by **Predator** » 2005-05-20 05:35am

It was a little mean of Obi-Wan not to put Darth Vader out of his misery as he lay there. Burnt, limbs missing - that's gotta be painful. And it might take him a while to die - sadistic. I'd have shoved that lightsabre into his head pronto. Not to mention that it was a huge fuckup considering he survived - he failed his mission.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-20 05:35am

3. I was a little irked at the quick pace from Coruscant to Mustafar. The time frame was within a matter of hours.

Its called Hyperdrive, they can reach systems that fast.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-05-20 05:36am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Superman wrote:
weemadando wrote:OK - Darth Plagueis was most definately Sideous' master.

Just watch Palpatine's face when he reaches the part of the story about the apprentice killing him one night. Motherfucker smirks so hard that it would be impossible to say that it wasn't him that capped a certain figure from "Sith legend".
Right, which also leads me to believe that he COULD HAVE CREATED Anakin. I guess it can't be proven, but it's a solid theory.
Palpatine ADMITS he doesn't have the ability, you fuck nut.

That doesn't mean shit, you hairy nut sack. He also told Vader than he killed Padme. Palpy lies all the damn time.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-05-20 05:45am

Superman wrote:That doesn't mean shit, you hairy nut sack. He also told Vader than he killed Padme. Palpy lies all the damn time.

While I loathe the concept of defending that scumball Sidious, it's true. Vader did kill Padme. The only obvious way that Palpy could know she'd ever been there would be security cameras, and they would suggest that Padme's corpse had been taken aboard the ship.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-05-20 06:28am

Superman wrote:
That doesn't mean shit, you hairy nut sack. He also told Vader than he killed Padme. Palpy lies all the damn time.

How exactly does Palpy lying all the time help your "solid" theory?

Overall, I loved this movie. It was exactly what I wanted to see, and to me it was emotionally gripping. My issues lie with how some of the Jedi masters were easily (unbelievably easy) dispatched by their clone troops, and how lazy the deaths of the first two Jedi that confronted Palpy were.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-05-20 06:58am

Did you not notice the whole Darth Maul comes to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan and has a pair of robot legs story?

And this has what to do with Grievous´ backstory?

As far as I can tell, there ain´t no "Infinities" label on that collection. Some stories might stretch credibility (like the Maul one

) but most are just explorations of the SW galaxy.

Karza · Post by **Karza** » 2005-05-20 07:34am

Nephtys wrote:
Silver Jedi wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on how they will reconcile Padme's death in childbirth with Leia's lines from ROTJ (about remembering her mother)?
Bail's wife could have been considered her mother perhaps? Right? Since she was given over at only a few days old.

Maybe Bail's wife died when Leia was very young, and Leia then described her to Luke, thinking she was her real mother.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-20 07:45am

Obi Wan left for Tatooine with Luke while Bail stuck around with LEia, Leia was probably around the dying Padme for longer or at the very least may have been present in some way at the funeral. Though how this gives the infant Leia a distant memory I don't know and that its possible there was some sort of Maternal connection via the force but, meh.

I think Leia remembering her adoptive mother theory fits in well with what we know, but at the same time her quotes in RoTJ, about her mother being very sad, it just seems exactly like what Padme was when she died.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-20 07:51am

Darth Fanboy wrote:I think Leia remembering her adoptive mother

Except she wasn't remembering her adoptive mother, but her real mother, like Luke asked her.

"Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-05-20 07:59am

read the rest of the quote

I wrote: I think Leia remembering her adoptive mother theory fits in well with what we know, but at the same time her quotes in RoTJ, about her mother being very sad, it just seems exactly like what Padme was when she died.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-05-20 08:07am

Yeah, I'm just too tired. Didn't notice.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2005-05-20 08:33am

I saw it. It rocked. I saw it in a Gold Class cinema with cumfy chairs food service and everything. I figure if Im going to see the last of the movies, then Ill do it in style.

I didnt analyse it, I didnt *want* to. And for me thats odd. I was just overwhelmed. Maybe that makes me more like a screaming fangirl...but I really dont care. I wont squee...no..I wont..