The **** Official **** Stardestroyer Thread

[meNNis]

i guess im just as ignorant as the writers of all those sw books as well as the Rebels/New Republic officials

[Utsanomiko]

Exactly. that's what you get when you let morons base techincal names off a Role-Playing Game (that never did research in the first place, else they would have found out it was always called Imperator sinse the official blueprints).

[meNNis]

you mean those official blueprints that are utterly flawed and incorrect?

[Cpt_Frank]

And the fact that Mandell gets the size wrong detracts from the validity of the other facts HOW?

[Utsanomiko]

you mean those official blueprints that are utterly flawed and incorrect?

What, is this supposed to be some kind of excuse for favoring the idiotic non-researched named picked by designers of a late '80s paper-and-dice RPG?! You might as well have simply retorted with gibberish.

[Vympel]

you mean those official blueprints that are utterly flawed and incorrect?

What, is this supposed to be some kind of excuse for favoring the idiotic non-researched named picked by designers of a late '80s paper-and-dice RPG?! You might as well have simply retorted with gibberish.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's the best response to Mandel blueprint criticism I've heard in quite a while.

[Utsanomiko]

you mean those official blueprints that are utterly flawed and incorrect?

What, is this supposed to be some kind of excuse for favoring the idiotic non-researched named picked by designers of a late '80s paper-and-dice RPG?! You might as well have simply retorted with gibberish.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's the best response to Mandel blueprint criticism I've heard in quite a while.

While I respect game deisgners and all (I'm going to be one, after all ), I think that if you're going to base a game off a series, you need to take the term 'base' past the bare minimum liberal interpretation.

Hell, considering the firepower and shield ratios (randomly generated with little relevance to other ships), and all the stuff they made up back in '87 for the sourcebooks, the only thin the movie and RPG ISDs have in common is their name (only the ship type, not the class), length (not for most ships, though), and appearance (not for the Blockade Runner, though). It's all West End Games' RPG info.

You think Lucas came up with Kuat? Or Rodians, Twi'leks, and all the other aliens that only had names during production? Or that Coruscant had less than 100 Billion population, and everything else had just the right amount of small cities (10-20 million population planetwide for most planets) for a small group of adventurers to make a difference, rather than letting small-scale actions be small, and encouraging players to be content with their huge galaxy, still teeming with possible adventures.

Also ever notice how the books always encourages parties to mimmick the diversity of the protagonists of the trilogy? I don't mean just in the six attibutes and variety of skills, but one cocky outlaw/smuggle/bbounty hunter, one prissy princess/senator, one brash pilot/farmer, a Jedi or two, a token alien, and that's alwaysd about it. Damn, there was so much potential for campaigns, and they always wanted people to 'get together with unlikely allies, run around, and fight for the Rebellion'. I had a great 4 player colonial mercenary pilot campaign under works, it certainly would've turned out fine, with good variety and freedom, without all that schlock.

[meNNis]

whoops... wrong place for that post dont ya think?
hehe

[Cpt_Frank]

no it's just in the right place.

[Utsanomiko]

whoops... wrong place for that post dont ya think?
hehe

No.

Though I can name something that actually doesn't seem to belong here.
Gee, what on Earth could it ever be? ...Hmm, something that doesn't seem to belong...

[Currald]

I'll just duck in here an make two points.

Re: Imperator/Imperial
In Linnaean naming conventions (scientific names for species, you know?) the name used in the first scientific description of an animal (or fossil) is the correct one, and is used in preference to all subsequent names. Hence we have Tyrannosaurus, rather than Dynamosaurus. It's really unfortunate that Dynamosaurus turned out to be a Tyrannosaurus, becuase Dynamosaurus is a really cool name!
What does this have to do with ship classes? I don't know, but for some reason I always think of it when this issue comes up. I usually just use ISD in a public forum such as this, but I privately prefer Imperator.

Re: Defender/Obi-Wan
I guess we're going to come up with some excuse for this. Maybe the Defender was delayed, and the Obi-Wan was actually launched first. Maybe the Obi-Wan's hull was laid down first, but the Defender was launched first, so the class was named after the Defender? I'm sure that there are a hundred possible rationalizations for this odd dicrepancy.

Okay, three points, actually:

Re: Geonosian Fighters
Aren't they labeled as a Nantex-class in the ICS? I'm sure that there are other such examples sprinkled throughout the EU. Fighters rarely have names. Does anyone have a suitable explanation for this?

[kheegster]

Just for information.Until few years ago there was a Kitty Hawk class aircraft carrier called America in service in the US Navy.An other carrier,called United States, was cancelled in 1949.

Yeah, only problem that sinking the USS United States would be a public relations disaster, as placing national namesakes on ships. Aferall, they are representing the namesake.

Hitler ordered the "Deutchland" to be renamed the "Lutzow" for just this reason.

KG

[kheegster]

Another point: nuclear powered aircraft carriers are often referred to as "super-carriers". That doesn't make them Super-class carriers, any more than Ackbar's reference to SSD makes it a Super-class.

KG

[Ender]

Re: Defender/Obi-Wan
I guess we're going to come up with some excuse for this. Maybe the Defender was delayed, and the Obi-Wan was actually launched first. Maybe the Obi-Wan's hull was laid down first, but the Defender was launched first, so the class was named after the Defender? I'm sure that there are a hundred possible rationalizations for this odd dicrepancy.

1) Calling it a defender is a goof. They mixed up the Defender class assault carrier and the Nebula class Star Destroyer. They are ships form the black fleet crisis that got the names reversed by WEG. As the books over ride games, the name Nebula wins out. GO back to about page 7 for more info.
2) Simple rationalization is commissioning dates and launching dates. Commission the Nebula first, making it Nebula class, but construction delays means that the Obi-wan gets launched and deployed first.

[Super-Gagme]

im·pe·ri·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-pНr-l)
adj.
Of, relating to, or suggestive of an empire or a sovereign, especially an emperor or empress: imperial rule; the imperial palace.
Ruling over extensive territories or over colonies or dependencies: imperial nations.

Having supreme authority; sovereign.
Regal; majestic.
Outstanding in size or quality.
Of or belonging to the British Imperial System of weights and measures.

n.
An emperor or empress.
The top of a carriage.
Something outstanding in size or quality.
A variable size of paper, usually 23 by 33 inches (55.8 by 83.8 centimeters).
A pointed beard grown from the lower lip and chin.


im·pe·ra·tor ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mp-rДtТr, -tr)
n.
An army commander in the Roman Republic.
The supreme power of the Roman emperor.
The head of state and supreme commander in the Roman Empire, in whose name all victories were won.

So from my understand of this, Imperator is a Roman Emperor and Imperial (as a noun) is an Emperor. So doesn't this mean that Imperial-Class works? Please don't reply with short comments like "oh it just sounds stupid". So now I feel there is nothing wrong with using Imperial as it means Emperor and that coupled with the fact that www.starwars.com (how more official can you get?) shows Imperial-Class. Now if you can sit there and tell me Starwars.com isn't official then I hope you have a good reason. Oh and just for those who don't look carefully, this information is NOT on the Expanded universe tab.

Executor entry in Databank
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html

I honestly prefer Imperator but when official sources say otherwise, how can you contest it? Oh and does anyone have a picture of the M. Blue prints? I wouldn't mind seeing them, thanks

[Cal Wright]

I see the justification for an Imperartor-Class. However the only time I have seen them named has been in the novelisations which are cannon. Then the EU novels which are official. There they are Imperial-Class.
Same with the Super-Star Destroyer.

[meNNis]

Super Star Destroyer yes. that has no referance to its class. ie it doesnt say Super-class Star Destroyer.

but we do have canon stating Imperial-class Star Destroyer.

[Cal Wright]

I don't remember any canon remarks about an Imperial Class. Unless it's in the script or radio drama. Because I haven't gone through either more than once.

[Cpt_Frank]

I don't remember any canon remarks about an Imperial Class. Unless it's in the script or radio drama. Because I haven't gone through either more than once.

Indeed, Imperial class is not canon. Neither is Imperator. But it's more logical.

[Vympel]

but we do have canon stating Imperial-class Star Destroyer.

You're full of shit. Where is there canon which says Imperial-class?

And no, Super-class is fucking stupid too. Luckily there is an official source which says Executor-class, saving another cool ship from a really fucking dumb name.

[Vympel]

n.
An emperor or empress.
The top of a carriage.
Something outstanding in size or quality.
A variable size of paper, usually 23 by 33 inches (55.8 by 83.8 centimeters).
A pointed beard grown from the lower lip and chin.

I have never heard the word Imperial being used a noun, I'm sorry.

[Vympel]

coupled with the fact that www.starwars.com (how more official can you get?) shows Imperial-Class. Now if you can sit there and tell me Starwars.com isn't official then I hope you have a good reason. Oh and just for those who don't look carefully, this information is NOT on the Expanded universe tab.

Wah? You think because EU stuff is on the movies tab you think it makes it canon? Eh?

There is no difference between the Mandel blueprints and the second-generation Imperial-class terminology. One is not inherently better than the other, and my personal choice is that you'll never find me using an idiotic term coined by some pen-and-paper RPG spastic, thank you very much.

This debate went for pages and pages, as you can see, we both went our seperate ways. Using either terminology is not wrong, it's just that most people prefer Imperator because it doesn't sound stupid.

[Cpt_Frank]

This debate went for pages and pages, as you can see, we both went our seperate ways. Using either terminology is not wrong, it's just that most people prefer Imperator because it doesn't sound stupid.

And just as a side note, the original Latin meaning of Imperator, the supreme warlord, fits perfectly for a ship like the ISD.

[Vympel]

And just as a side note, the original Latin meaning of Imperator, the supreme warlord, fits perfectly for a ship like the ISD.

Yup- and as originally pointed out- Curtis Saxton has fulfilled the Warsie fan dream by bending the EU to his point of view- Acclamator, Procurator, Mandator are all Kuat Drive Yards ships, and fit perfectly with Imperator and Executor class.

Imagine, if you will, the effect of no talent RPG hacks on the class names- this is what we'd have:

Acclamator becomes Republic-class
Imperator becomes Imperial-class
Executor becomes Super-class (like fucking )

As a side note, the evidence is firmly against Super-class- not only is there an official Executor-class reference, but Super Star Destroyer is a term applied to many different classes- the Executor-class, the Eclipse-class and the Allegiance type. It is most definitely slang.

[Cpt_Frank]

And just as a side note, the original Latin meaning of Imperator, the supreme warlord, fits perfectly for a ship like the ISD.

Yup- and as originally pointed out- Curtis Saxton has fulfilled the Warsie fan dream by bending the EU to his point of view- Acclamator, Procurator, Mandator are all Kuat Drive Yards ships, and fit perfectly with Imperator and Executor class.

I hope he'll also write the EIII ICS.
Do you know if the EII ICS were comercially successful?

Imagine, if you will, the effect of no talent RPG hacks on the class names- this is what we'd have:

Acclamator becomes Republic-class
Imperator becomes Imperial-class
Executor becomes Super-class (like fucking )

As a side note, the evidence is firmly against Super-class- not only is there an official Executor-class reference, but Super Star Destroyer is a term applied to many different classes- the Executor-class, the Eclipse-class and the Allegiance type. It is most definitely slang.

Yep, the evidence supports our POV.